winch problems?

treefarmer87 · February 02, 2012, 08:41:18 PM

my gearmatic stopped working. the inside parts are pitted and rusted :( it leaks in the center and new seals didnt stop the leak because of the pitting. forestry and construction parts want $5500 for a complete winch rebuild. they also have a t-40 timberjack winches for $2000-$3000. since my friend sold the c5 i was going to buy i am going to fix my skidder up. i need a new winch but am not sure what to do. i was thinking of getting another gearmatic, like a 19 or 119, but will a 119 go on my skidder without modifications?. i could get a grapple and arch assembly and controls for $1500 but i dont want to go cutting and welding on my skidder and mess something up. im just not sure what to do ??? on another note i am going to go to forestery and construction tomm. and pic up my " new" slasher saw. i will post pics tomm.

DDDfarmer · February 02, 2012, 10:12:40 PM

I have seen a good machinist bore out and install bushings. Is there someone in your area that could do this? That is if the winch is worth-while and you would like to keep it.

My gearmatic service manual refers to a 19 as a dozer winch and the 119 as a skidder winch, yet basicly the same winch. Just different sealing options.

As you have a gearmatic winch now you might be able to use the same base, just change the winch for a 119.

Sometimes its better to get what you have fixed properly, you already know the pro's and con's

Migal · February 03, 2012, 12:00:01 AM

I would carry it to a Machinist and have it ground and sleeved if rest is good do it all the time on pump shafts 8) note use locktight on sleeve

jocco · February 03, 2012, 08:33:50 AM

Tree farmer take a deep breath,

maybe we can help. Yes $5500 is high What model is it 9 19 119??? What is leaking?? Yes as others said it can probably be machined. Also check Many other new/used dealers. But be carfull of some old used winch it may not be any better than what you have. Do you need some contacts of dealers? It can run $2-3000 to do a major on some winches Others a few hundred. Hope i can help a bit. ;D

treefarmer87 · February 03, 2012, 08:53:42 AM

the center where the hose and 4 allen screws leaks and wont stop. I would like to convert it to a 119, the one i have now is a 19. For what it costs to get it redone is what i paid for my skidder.

DDDfarmer · February 03, 2012, 11:05:19 AM

Models 19 and 119 are the same, check this out;

http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/j358j.pdf

lumberjack48 · February 03, 2012, 01:49:52 PM

treefamer87 i think thats an easy fix, have you converted that to a live swivel yet ?

treefarmer87 · February 03, 2012, 04:20:43 PM

What will the live swivel do

tjdub · February 03, 2012, 04:55:37 PM

Quote from: treefarmer87 on February 03, 2012, 08:53:42 AM
the center where the hose and 4 allen screws leaks and wont stop.

Looking at the PDF that DDDFarmer posted, it looks like there's a sleeve pressed into that shaft where the seal and o-ring go. Part #26 on the Ring Gear, Pinion, and Shaft diagram (A9506 part number). Perhaps it's just bronze sleeve? If that sleeve is just worn out, it shouldn't cost too much to get a new one pressed in to that shaft.

lumberjack48 · February 03, 2012, 05:15:19 PM

What set up do you have in the center cap? the little o-rings

lumberjack48 · February 03, 2012, 05:48:31 PM

I found a example of a live swivel, it will screw in to the center cap, the cap with the 4 bolts, it will have to be taped for the right threads, mine was left hand.
I got the swivel from Napa.
This is just a pic, not the right part

lumberjack48 · February 03, 2012, 06:14:24 PM

Heres Surplus center, I'm not sure winch one would be the right size, you want the lowest profile one so your tear drop cover will work with a little modification.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?catname=hydraulic&keyword=HFLS

treefarmer87 · February 03, 2012, 06:18:18 PM

thanks so much for your help

DDDfarmer · February 03, 2012, 06:47:25 PM

Here is a pic of the live swivel on my cancar 20 ( gearmatic 19/119 )

if you look at page 21/22 in my prior attachment you will see this is part #17. there is an update to the live swivel as shown in my pic, this may be the repair kit # 57625 shown on pg 22 #2 at the bottom.

Great system does not leak, just remember it is a left hand thread.

hope this helps

jocco · February 03, 2012, 07:12:15 PM

Tree farmer look at the posts as myself and ED k had a discuion on this about a month ago. Yes that leak can be fixed way short of $5500 If the rest of winch is good ring pinion? Might be good chance to do bearings and bands? Again way short of $5500. I am not nocking the figure from that company i just did a modle #9 and it had $55000 worth of curses in it ;D net parts was about $900 Very minor difference in 19 119. Need any other help just holler.

Quote from: treefarmer87 on February 03, 2012, 06:18:18 PM
thanks so much for your help

treefarmer87 · February 03, 2012, 08:54:30 PM

My winch has new bands and the bearings are good. I found a company called arrow west equip. They have all kinds of winches there i would like a 119 because they say they are a better winch and they are unsealed. Nobody i know around here really knows about winches because its all tree length planted pine and grapple skidders.

jocco · February 03, 2012, 09:19:43 PM

Yes it is same in many areas the people that worked on them are dead. Gearmatic is pac-car corporaton now. That leak was the curse on them used to swell the bands up and they would not pull out. Also check your hose and cylinder plus the pipe fittings for leaks. Parts men are not any help as they do not know the product for the most part. I do not agree on the 119 there is not that much difference and they had same problems. hope things work out well.

lumberjack48 · February 04, 2012, 02:00:02 PM

I had a 119 on a 1979 S8A International i bought new, like jocco is saying it is basically the same winch you have. That 19 like serve you good with a little care for many yrs..

treefarmer87 · February 04, 2012, 04:38:01 PM

i was at the junkyard today looking for a parts winch all i found was a franklin

Ed_K · February 04, 2012, 06:01:00 PM

$5500. for a total rebuild doesn't sound to bad.I had troubles with the hand controler awhile back and the gearmatic dealer wanted 5k for the controler my parts guy called them back and said we're not looking for a whole winch,and gearmatic said the winch runs $25000.

.
Tap that center plate and get a live swivel from napa.around $70. fix.I taped mine with 1/4 npt right hand thds haven't had any problems.After a yr I changed the o-rings in the swivel but I don't have to take the large side cover off to do it. I have also found out,there's different types of o-rings depending on heat-pressure-movement.

snowstorm · February 04, 2012, 07:03:34 PM

orings have a durometer number

lumberjack48 · February 04, 2012, 07:18:09 PM

$25,000 i all most fell out of my wheelchair!!!!!!! I had the controller stoled off my C5 25 yrs ago, they wanted $1200. for one back then. I got 3 used ones from a guy for $200.

Ed_K · February 04, 2012, 07:34:10 PM

Lumberjack48, tell me you still have them ?I have my old one being rebuilt so while I'm waiting,I'm using two micro locks to run the winch.

treefarmer87 · February 04, 2012, 07:43:16 PM

at forestry and construction the "new" rebuilt controls are $600.

jocco · February 05, 2012, 09:04:21 AM

Might be interested in one to if its rebuildable.

Quote from: lumberjack48 on February 04, 2012, 07:18:09 PM
$25,000 i all most fell out of my wheelchair!!!!!!! I had the controller stoled off my C5 25 yrs ago, they wanted $1200. for one back then. I got 3 used ones from a guy for $200.

lumberjack48 · February 05, 2012, 01:58:20 PM

Sorry guys, after i got hurt i don't know where half of my stuff went to. The family soup't in like vulture's. :( >:( The wife had to spoon feed me the first year. I'm going to call the boy and put him on the hunt for master controllers, there might be one or two laying around.

Whats wrong with the one you have ? I had one that the main shaft bushings wore out on, i took it to my machinist, he put new sleeves and bushings in it, just like new.

Ed_K · February 05, 2012, 06:23:07 PM

My main shaft leaked a little, but the real damage was in the housing where the brake pistons push the fluid out.One was worn,the other is cracked to the outside.The sleeve was wore right thru.Seems the springs didn't return qiuck enough to keep the push rod centered.My machinest is making a new cup housing and sleeve the main rod with new o-rings.
If your son finds one, I'm on the list.Thanks.

jocco · February 05, 2012, 06:34:04 PM

Ed i had to put a kit in one they are pricy new and scarce as he!! used.

Quote from: Ed_K on February 05, 2012, 06:23:07 PM
My main shaft leaked a little, but the real damage was in the housing where the brake pistons push the fluid out.One was worn,the other is cracked to the outside.The sleeve was wore right thru.Seems the springs didn't return qiuck enough to keep the push rod centered.My machinest is making a new cup housing and sleeve the main rod with new o-rings.
If your son finds one, I'm on the list.Thanks.

chopper888 · February 18, 2012, 09:28:21 PM

I am just getting into logging and I just joined this forum. I bought a 1985 Tree Farmer with a Can-Car 20 that was completely toasted. My guess is the winch hadn't turned in 20 years. Anyhow, I found a place in Southern Illinois that has a ton of skidder parts. I bought a completely rebuilt winch - direct replacement - for $2500. This included a 3 month warranty. The people there were also very friendly and willing to answer questions...he even threw in some chokers to help me get started! They also had rebuilt controls. I think he said $600 for them. I was able to take mine off and go through it myself, so I didn't have to buy that. The name of the place is Schaeffer Enterprises. http://www.sewlparts.com/ I worked with a guy named Andy. I would recommend them any day. I wish there were still more places in business like this!