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Trouble shooting a Grand Cherokee

Started by Jeff, July 18, 2012, 12:55:00 AM

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shelbycharger400

scan tool aint goin to help you on this one
If i remember right. power goes from battery to fuse, to ignition switch, low voltage side of relay control , then ground.   fused battery through relay to starter via the one wire terminal.      What motor is in this jeep?   the 5.2 L? im guessing.
If I was you, I would have pulled the tin cap off the back of the starter on the starter, it has 3, 8 mm nuts on it.  The contacts in their get dirty and arc corroded somewhere around 140k mi on the speedo (althou my stepdads diesel was 190k) , first mark all parts with a marker or scribe, pull the 2 screws off the back of the starter body, carefully pop the back cover off  and take a look at the brushes.   these starters are so easy to rebuild its  silly.
Pop the starter out and look at those first.  Still actin up,  unfasten the pdc (power distribution center, carefully turn it on its side and pop the back cover off and look at the buss bars for water and corrosion, and carefully look at the wires next to the terminals. If you see one that is bulged or puffed up, it is corroded inside. I dont have a picture of what it looks like, but u will see it if it is. Remember you can have voltage and NO flow .

Jeff

Nothing wrong with the starter, had it off and bench tested it.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

shelbycharger400

o, hey,  how is the supply wire from the bat to the starter? i know they are molded in.
is it swelled by the battery terminals?

just because it bench tests dosnt rule it is "good"  ive been down that road, take it out..bench test good.. put it back in.. NOthin .   
  where you cycle the key back and forth several times quickly  and i mean fast. then all of sudden it pops off ... solenoid.      the occasional hit and miss.. ect.       its all variable baised upon the contacts and the disc inside.   slow crank time... battery or the brushes.     I will pop one apart tomorrow and give you a picture of inside of one.

trust me here boss.. its way easy to check this first before chasin the electrical ghost.   

Jeff

Trust me, there is nothing wrong with the starter.  :) I ran a jumper to the solenoid and it will start every time.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

shelbycharger400

ok then.. pull the pdc apart and look for corrosion

Warbird

How long have you left the battery disconnected at one time?  My hunch is it's the computer messing up.

Jeff

The battery was unhooked for a couple hours at one point when we had the starter out of it. I'm sure its a weak connection somewhere or a sticky relay. It may be temperature related as well. We needed to move it today to get my truck out, and it started right up. Several times. Its in the 70's today, and was in the 90's when we were having issues.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

I wanted to update this topic, because the answer to the problem was found today. It is not what I would have ever thought.

The vehicle started doing the same thing today. Dee called to find out what we had done to get it to start last time. I could not remember exactly what fuse it was I was pulling, so she called the lot where she bought the Jeep. As it turns out, the vehicle was bought at a buy here pay here lot. If your monthly payment does not clear within 3 days after the due date, they have some sort of device installed where they can disable the ignition remotely by sending out a signal. Dee had made her payments both times right on the due dates but somehow the payments did not get registered before they activated the vehicle's start disabling.  So, it turns out, I was able to over-ride their system without knowing there was a system.  I guess it is a bit embarrassing, but at least now we know. :D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

isawlogs

 Legaly speaking... can they do that Jeff ???  Just curious... and did they tell Dee of this great system of theres?    :-\
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Jeff

I gotta think they have to tell you, but as far as I know, if they did, she forgot or paid no attention, but they did tell her today. Now she knows and I bet the payment is in early next month. :D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

thecfarm

I guess we are better at trouble shooting sawmills than Jeeps.  :D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

SPIKER

boy I would guess that would be one thing I would be getting rid of, no big brother stuff for me!!!
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

shelbycharger400

probably just under the pannel below the steering wheel. Most likely it will look like a remote start box.  Only other places I have seen stuff like that is a 2x2x4 box under the dash pad, REAL easy to spot as their will be wires all taped up, a bundle the size of a baseball, then feed into the magic box. the splices will be into the red and yellow wires comming from the ignition switch

I too would be removing this device!
They are a Safety hazzard!
they can give you a song and a dance all they want (the seller)  then you can tell them they are in violation of a federal law,   cant remember how it goes but its an unautherized alteration of a motor vehicle. Basically if the vehicle burns up or crashes the installers and the company that made the device are in hot water.   Who goes to say they turn the vehicle off while your going 70 down the freeway?  NO power brakes or power steering for the 100lb 5ft 4 behind the wheel?   ugh what is wrong with people that dont think.

Jeff

The device doesn't have the ability to shut the vehicle off. Only to keep it from restarting once it has been activated and the car shut off. There is no big ball of tape or any such thing, as I was all over under the dash around the steering column. I don't know exactly how it works, but I know what it does. It is an interrupter in the starter solenoid circuit.

I just found this with the first search.

http://www.paytimeonline.com/
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

I just did a little research and there are several companies offering the device and the service and from what I can see it is perfectly legal.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Mooseherder

Why the dirtyrottenturdmobilejerksterswithnothinbettertodo! :D

Holmes

I did not know they made things like that.      Hmmm I wonder if they make one for toilets? ;D ;D
Think like a farmer.

shelbycharger400

Thanks Jeff!

I have never had to deal with one of these, maybe I did and eliminated it.
I will remember this one!

I was under the asumption they could shut it off at will , that would be illegal.

This dose bring up a good memory from back in the day. One of the techs was taking all the gravy tickets, even took a few of my jobs I upsold. The russian next to me was up to something when I was busy doin something. He was my mentor and recieved 20 percent of what I did as credits, I got 80 percent Journeyman. he fixed him  ;D, told me bout it after he left for a test drive. IT was a long time before he got back. My mentor  stuck a white ISO relay in the asd relay place in the pdc. The white ones in chrysler are time delay relays and B vans used them.  After 15 minutes they time out. The asd or Auto Shutdown Relay controls everything. He came back and groaned bout it for a while. He was stuck on the side of hwy 7 til he figured it out.    it never did fix his grabbin greed, but the layoffs and closing of the shop kinda pinched him a bit. Heard rumors out HE was the only one that wasnt union member and was payed WAYY over scale.

SPIKER

Jeff I would imagine that it is setup as a FLIP FLOP type relay in-line with the start circuit.   that is why it resets when you kill the power and re-attempt the start.

Look for something like a small black relay box it probably has a factory looking plug with 3 or 4 wires on it.   if you have a "haynns Book" you should be able to trace the wiring back pretty quick as you already stated only a couple items in that circuit...

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

beenthere

Quote from: Holmes on October 19, 2012, 08:57:27 PM
I did not know they made things like that.      Hmmm I wonder if they make one for toilets? ;D ;D

You have a Halloween trick up your sleeve?   ;D ;D

Years back we used to just tip them over....or so some talked about doing such a terrible thing.  :) :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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