Firewood Processing on a large scale???

[seastrike]

Guys I'm looking to find some info on the firewood business. I'm in south Alabama, so obviously its not as big a business down here as in other places. However,,,every Home Depot, Lowes, gas station,wal-mart,,,, sells processed and dried firewood, for quite a hefty price. The wood is usually dried, and seems to be either bagged or wraped in some kind of plastics, is sitting on a pallet. Are there machines out there that will do the whole process from tree length to bagged, to wrapping a pallet, or is much of this process done by hand after the splitting?? We run a large woodyard that turns about 200 tons a day of hardwood pulpwood so getting the wood would not be a problem, Its just a matter of making the dollars work. I was thinking on the scale where we would put the wood on pallets and sell it by the flatbed or the pallet and deliver it to companies off of flatbeds. Where else would yall recomend going to find info on this business???

Thanks guys!! 

[Gabby]

Seastrike-I help a buddy of mine here in Northern NY. Minus 20 this am. That temp and price of oil makes firewood gold! Anyway whatever way you look at this labor is a huge factor.  We currently are doing about 500 face cords/week. We use a CORDKING (check out -search engine) to cut/split. It has a 52" circular blade which is alot fasrer than any chainsaw arrangement I've seen (alot more $ also) I believe around $80,000 new. You'll also need a conveyor system to get the split pieces away fro the processor.
We deliver to wholesalers via a 48" tractor with a walking trailer. Nice arrangement. 55 face cords per load. FYI this would be about 18 standard cords. Some of thses wholesalers bundle, ect. but here you get into more equipment, labor, and most importantly a distribution
system.  Also in my opnion the "bundle" bit works best if your in a fairly affluent area. If not leave that for someone else.
ps we also deliver locally via a ford f-350. 5 cord minimun
lets us know how it goes.

[seastrike]

Gabby, When you say you deliver by walking trailer are you talking about transfer trailer which is merly a super heavy duty walking floor chip trailer. We have several of these which we haul stumps, and sawmill waste on. I think they are 119 yards each. They would definatly handle firewood. Are you stacking the wood in your trailer or just dumping the pieces in the trailer by loader or conveyor. I could also conveyor right in a  20 or 40 yard roll off containers. Are you selling your wood green??Thanks for the ideas. I am intrested in doing retail also, but only if I could first find some wholesale markets to ulitize my trucks which are already in place(roll offs and transfer trailers). Any idea what firewood sells for by the ton. We operate in a per ton business and its much easier for me to think in terms of cost per ton. Sorry so many questions!!!

[estiers]

I would suggest that you check with your State weights and measures department.  Some states only let you sell firewood in certain defined dimensions.  You should be able to find this on their website.

[Flyboy]

I was "In The Business" 5 years. Had a Valley Processor. A skidder, kubota 4X4 and 2 trucks. *DanG Good Machines Too. My biggest downfall is I'm just not a good business man. I sold this single women with 5 kids 2 cord of wood and came home with a chicken dinner. I felt sorry for her. :
It took me 5 years to learn, that for me anyway, there aint any real money in firewood. Lot of back breakin work tho. Come layoff time in Vermont, everybody and his brother with a pickup and a chainsaw is in the wood business. Most of them are stealin wood off Moms back yard and selling wood for beer money. They wouldn't know what a REAL cord of wood was if it fell on them.
Then the hardwood pulp market went up and a guy like me couldn't afford to buy truckloads at what the pulp mills were paying. You can't depend on the truckers. firewood is a PITA, they would rather be haulin logs to mills and you can't blame them. Try loading and unloading 8000' of logs then do 10 cord of Pkr pole wood and see how long it takes.
Then theres the public: "Oh Joe Blow From Idaho" sells his wood cheaper, "are you sure thats a cord" "I really like beech better than oak" "would you mine splitting it a little smaller" Then on the coldest day in Feburary "Do you have any DRY wood" and "Can you dump it over by the cellar door past the pool and across the garden, LOOK WHAT YOU DID TO MY FLOWERS" I'm not paying you!
Then theres the guy who stacks his and measures it His Way, calls you up and is 3 pieces short. They never seem to call when you 3 pieces over tho.
I'm a little cynical about it , maybe. I did on the average 600 real cords a year for 5 years, worked 7 days a week by myself, had about 200,000 tied up in equipment, and the last year after all was said and done turned a profit of $2500. My accountant said I worked for about .65 cents an hour.
Like I said I'm not a good business man, so my downfall was of my own doing. Maybe you'll do better and all the power to you. In the winter you'll be a pretty popular guy, come 4th of July, you can't give a cord of wood away.
Better check Weights and Measures too. A cord of wood is 128 cubic feet, The ONLY LEGAL way to sell it. In Vermont the language is "128 cf. Well Stowed" (Stacked)  Then if your selling to a comercial enterprize that is reselling it to the public there is sales Tax. (bet that will get something going, but check the law). Anyway my friend Good Luck, but you'd probably do better at Burger King. You might get health insurance for your bad back. ??? 

[Ed_K]

 I'm with Flyboy all the way  :(. Only it took me 12 yrs to figure it out.
Now I sell the cordwood in log length at the landing to logtruck operators. Some days I feel like I'm only making .50 an hr still. Its an expensive deal the sell to the public. Especially if the wood is kiln dried and wrapped. I started a bussiness plan to go that route, and ended up going totally out of the retail mkt.

[OLD_ JD]

Flyboy  ;)ya i understand what ure feeling about all that :)i feel the same sometime....i still do wood even if i'l can do more $$ by working for some forestry engenier (forester),..but i LIKE what i do ;)..and this is very importent to me 8)..i work 70 hour's a week like noting coze i do it for me and my bis...every morning i can't wait to start my day ;)
about the "Oh Joe Blow From Idaho"i dont realy pay attension to them :...there so manny good people in this world ,i dont loose my time whit those .... :...:...ure not happy ...dont call me again ;D THAT'S IT  ;D.i even make sure i scrach there name from my list..if there still complaite about stupidity i ask them ...what the purpose of that wood ???...to be burn ;D...so it shoud make them think a bit  
whene i talke whit the customer...i alway's use the terme "WE" even if i by my own....so i can use that to excuse of i can't do better in prize...give me a way out ;)

[Corley5]

My investment is comparatively small.  I've got less than 25K into my operation with the Blockbuster 14-12 and a new dump trailer.  I've already got tractors and an all terrain forklift plus a Fransgard 4000 winch.  My original plan was to buy all hardwood pulp to feed the machine and I may still buy some depending on demand but for the 1st year to help pay off the investment I'm going to do some TSI work here on the farm in cooperation with the NRCS.  I'll get an incentive for that too 8)  Depending on how things pan out I'd like to get into a bigger processor someday but I figured starting small and working up was the best way to go.  It's all I could afford anyway ;) ;D  I would like to do some bundled firewood eventually but that's down the road also  If things don't work out like I'm hoping I can liquidate the machine which has a super resale value and not be out much.

[OLD_ JD]

corley,are u doing that as second revenue or for a living..that all the "question" ???

[Corley5]

A liitle of both actually ;) ;D  My whole reason for getting into this is because of a two year layoff from my job with the Michigan DNR >:( :( >:( >:( >:( >:(  So fulltime firewood until the unemployment benefits run out then I've got a job lined up for next summer at private wildlife refuge where I used to work plus firewood and hay.  Then back to fulltime firewood next fall, work for the DNR for a month or so during deer season and back to firewood again.  Depending on how things are going I may or may not go back to the refuge the following year.  That's what I've got in mind anyway.  I only wish I would have gotten a processor a few years ago.  I toyed with idea but not seriously but I didn't think I'd get a two year layoff either.  I've always been laid off in the winter and I if I would have been doing firewood I would already have a customer base established but you now what they say about hindsight ;) ;D ;D  That's probably more than anyone wanted to know and I could go on longer but will spare anymore details ;)
I did just get an order for a face cord to be delivered about 10 miles from here 8) 8)  It's a start ;D ;D

[OLD_ JD]

I did just get an order for a face cord to be delivered about 10 miles from here 8) 8)  It's a start ;D ;D

carreful to dont create a "monsteur" :D...u can always hire me and my proscessor  to help u on ure production :D :D
I can take care of all the big stuff for u  :D :D :D

[Corley5]

 8) I'll save out the big logs for ya  ;) ;D

[rebocardo]

> Where else would yall recomend going to find info on this business???

Considering your warm locale, find a firewood buyer in the North that charges a prem$ for their wood (www.firewoodguy.com)  then find truckers going south to north (empty) that can dump it and earn an extra buck for themselves. A cord in Atlanta is 1/2 what it is up north.   

Some firewood dealers up north (say Wilson Farms) sell it by the Bobcat scoop. So, you selling it by the rough cord (weight) and them doing the same is the best way to get started because there is no investment in packaging.

A lot of the smaller garden centers will just have the trailer pull up, dump it, and then parcel it out by rough cubic measures (how big the bobcat bucket) into pickup trucks. Most run out of wood before winter runs it course and are always looking for wood. Even unseasoned.

imo.

[Flyboy]

 ;D Aside from all my negativitey on the wood pile issue: I really loved it too. 99 out of 100 people were great. I enjoyed my toys. Still have all of them but the processor. It's good clean (for the most part) work. Like makin an honest living kind of thing. I only do my own now, although my phone still rings a lot! To me, theres nothing more enjoyable (cept flyin) than to be out in the woods, clean crisp morning ridin my skidder lisening to the chains jingle.  Then standing back and lookin at a full wood shed.
My real story was (And I aint lookin for no sympathy) my wife got sick with cancer and took her treatment in Nashville. I went back on the road in a friends Pete pullin a flatbed to go she her and my boy. I was there every weekend till she passed. I just couldn't make payments on my processor drivin a truck.
Cape Cod's the place to sell wood, Long Island, Jersey, Nantucket, Anyplace near the shore, where it's cold and aint no trees.
A live floor trailer works good, put a small rug down in the nose then load your wood.
Like I said before good luck to you doing it. Try to get your hands on a TMS machinery sale mag they got a lot of firewood stuff. It's to bad that Valley sold out to Timberwolf, It WAS a good machine.  A Cord King is top shelf, but big bucks. If you buy a conveyor, forget the belt type and get one with paddles. Soon as it snows you'll see why and get a chip screen on your conveyor to keep the chips on the ground and not your customers lawn, they'll love you come summer. If a man got what a cord of wood is worth, $250 +, everybody be burnin oil.
The thing I like to tell my lippy customers was, If You Don't Like My Price, Cut Your Own. That usually shut them up.

[Larry]

I have a firewood policy ABSOLUTELY NO DELIVERIES...FOR ANY REASON.

So as I'm out in the snowstorm making my deliveries to the elderly widow lady, and the single mother with no power, I'm thinking about Flyboy's comments.  I'm thinking even harder as I stack wood under the 5' deck...got welts all over my head now. :

Think I will come up with a new policy ABSOLUTELY NO DELIVERIES...FOR ANY REASON...EVER...NEVER...AND DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. :D 

[bull]

My customer policy is: The customer is always wrong,if they were right they would do it themselves.....
as for selling firewood...  Cut and stack make it pretty and charge as much as you can.....  Less wood more money
Wait before you sell.  In this area the biggerguys sell to cheap and sell out. Then im the only guy intown w/ dry wood.....  Also don't dump the load until you have cash in hand.....  Any complaints retrieve the wood and return the cash.. Someone else will need the wood more and also pay more money....   Many great stories not enough time.... 

Inappropriate language edited by Administration  >:(

[Frickman]

We used to cut alot of firewood. Now I just deliver truckloads of long length firewood logs. It's alot easier that way. I sell about two cords at a time, some disasembly is required.  ;) ;)