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question about posts for pole building

Started by opticsguy, July 23, 2013, 11:16:34 PM

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opticsguy

Not sure where to ask for help on this project:

Wanting to build an 18' x 50' pole building.  The treated posts are $62 each, costing about $744 plus tax.  I could cut my own but they would not be treated; so, how can I build a pole building without treated poles?  Annnnnd, without having to pour concrete slab with footings for a standard frame construction without poles.

Thank you for your expert opinion.   :-)



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5quarter

Perhaps utility poles. Square them up to your desired dimension, leaving the bottom 4' intact. they should outlast you and me (well, maybe not me  ;))
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giant splinter

One of the forum members built his project with treated posts that he joined and bolted together with posts that he milled, I did not find the post that showed the photos but its in here somewhere and looks like it might work on your pole building.
roll with it

hackberry jake

Look into stand offs. I used them when I built my sawshed. Use the auger to drill a hole like you would put a post in. Fill the hole with concrete and stick a j-anchor bolt in the wet concrete. Once its firm, attach the standoff and attach your 6x6. It keeps the posts off the ground.
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jdonovan

like jake says, some sort of concrete in ground, and untreated wood above.

Simpson makes a number of concrete to wood anchor products that I'm going to be using for my eventual pole building build.

There is another company www.permacolumn.com who has an interesting pre-cast column option. And they also sell an option for you to set into your poured on-site column.

Seaman

I remember the post giantsplinter is talking about, looked like a good idea. He cut the PT post only long enough to have three feet or so out of the ground, then cit about a 16 inch mortise into the end. Cut a 16 inch tenon into his nontreated post and slid onto top of treated post.
Hope that helps.
Frank
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sawdusty1

I have used plain ole roofing tar on 4X6's below ground level. I built a pole barn using this method 33 yrs ago and they are still solid as a rock. Let the roofing tar dry before putting them in the ground.
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Cguignard

What I have done in the past for pole barns is use a 6 foot or so section of telephone pole, bury it 4 feet deep then square up the top 2 to 3 feet sticking out of the ground with my chain saw to what ever size post you are using.  For me that size is 6" then I nail and bolt 2x6 to two sides and 2x10 to one other side, each piece is 4' long.  I leave the side of the post towards the out side with out anything and board up the side. Hope this helps.

Larry

Use treated 2 X 6's and sandwich construction.  Treated in the ground and untreated above.  The treating goes all the way through a 2 X 6 but only penetrates a small amount in a 6 X 6 so it is actually a better post.  Morton Buildings uses this type of post on their buildings.

In northwest Missouri I've seen a lot of 50 year old tobacco barns where the post was cottonwood sitting on top of a concrete pier.  No fastener at all holding it down to the concrete.  You ever try to lift a 40' tall bacco barn? :D

If you do use utility poles never put the cut end of one in the ground.  I used some for fence posts years ago.  The butt ends lasted fine but the ones with a cut end were showing rot/deterioration after 10 years.
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grweldon

While it is true that you can attach your poles via hardware to poured concrete footings (piers) to get them off the ground, your completed building will have nowhere near the lateral stability than would a similar building with poles buried in the ground.  The building with the piers will have plenty of uplift protection, but if you accidently bump into a post with the tractor that post is likely to move causing significant damage.

If you bump in to a buried post, you will damage the metal and maybe a purlin or two, but the post won't move if you bump it at the speed you will likely be traveling when you are moving near the barn.  I have never personally seen it, but I've heard of an entire barn built with anchored posts on piers collapsing when a corner post was hit with a tractor.  Will it happen to you? I don't know, but it makes enough sense to me that I wouldn't build that way.
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Jim_Rogers

Putting a piece of pressure treated in the ground and a regular post on top if it is called the "short pole system".

I wrote about it here with pictures:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,20380.0.html

Jim Rogers
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hackberry jake


Most people dont know, but about 80% of the shear strength in metal buildings comes from the sheet metal/tin they use on the outside. I helped a friend of mine build a pole barn garage. We got the posts set 3' deep and got all the rafters up and you could see it sway in the wind. Once we put corrugated metal on it, I dont think a hurricane could knock it down.
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woodyone.john

For my saw shed I plan to put the posts in the ground 5 or 6 feet, in concrete having at least 6 inches of concrete around the post/pole and 6 inches under. the concrete will be poured to 6 inches above floor level with a dirt floor. about 6 inches above concrete level i plan to drill a hole about 1 inch diameter head down 45 degrees to the centre of the pole. this i will top up annually with copper napthanate.the poles i will use will be thinnings from my eucalypt forest,they are about 12 -15 inch diameter. cheers john
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Bibbyman

I use eastern red cedar.  And have sawn out many for others.  I can't afford to sale them for the treated pine prices.
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Kingcha

If your getting a building permit you might want to check first.  We can't use our own lumber for structure wood where I live.  Just a thought.

matt
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postville

 I am building a saw shed for my mill. Using red elm posts. No treating, just sawed and in the ground. I plan on a 2 foot eves so the poles will stay dry.
I had done this on my old mill building which lasted 12 years before getting hit by lightening and burning down. I am 67 now, if the building lasts 10 years I'll have gotten my use out of it.
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Full Circle

We use black locust for projects like this.  Sometimes it's hard to make a clean 6 X 6 at the length we need, but it's a good wood for the application.
-Roy



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RALFF

If you can find a pole treatment facility in your area you might be able to buy short utility poles. i have a place near me where you can buy 20 foot and under utility poles for $1.50 per foot but you have to haul them yourself. I am using some 16 footers to build a 40ft. X 12ft. lumber drying shed.

redbeard

 

  This is a 18x80 drying shed I used treated fence posts with a 4x10 on top , then framed wall all board n bat 1x10 on back side. The 4 6x6 posts in front are on concrete with heavy duty saddles. The sides I used 2 1/2" thick x 8" Perkins for siding nailers lagged into back wall and front posts. Only store bought material was the 6" round treated posts and I used compaction type sand n rock to bed them in 3' holes

  

  . I built it 6 hrs ago.
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Ron Wenrich

Concrete around a post is a bad idea.  Concrete holds water.  When I inspected utility poles, those with concrete around them were more prone to rot.

The butts on treated posts are usually treated heavier than the rest of the pole.  Your results may vary as you go up the pole.

Redbeard's is similar to what we used on our mill.  I also like Larry's idea with the 2x6s.
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Weekend_Sawyer

I always wind up wit  a lot of buckets. If you cut a 5 gal bucket in half (not length wise  :D) and then cut the bottom off you get 2 round forms. I dig my footer and fill it full of concrete, place one of the bucket forms on top of it and fill it up with concrete. Even if the footer is wider than the bucket form it doesn't sluff or ooze out the bottom. Put a j bolt in it and walla, you are good to go.

;D jon
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Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

nastcat

Quote from: Kingcha on July 24, 2013, 07:34:42 PM
If your getting a building permit you might want to check first.  We can't use our own lumber for structure wood where I live.  Just a thought.

matt
Matt
You can use your own sawn lumber for stucture building all you have to do is get it graded by an approved engineer. My brother did this when he built the addition on his home in town in West Branch, Mi. The women came out the the site approve all the lumber as Number one common and he never had a problem with the building inspector. For the record all the lumber came from mature poplar trees and the engineer stated that it was all easily number one common grade. The lumber was virtually knot free.

MReinemann

I just put up a pole garage.  8x8 red oak posts sitting on top of 12" cement tubes.  I stuck a 1" piece of rebar in while it was drying and then drilled a hole in the bottom of the post to drop onto the rebar to keep it from sliding off if it did get hit.  Put some felt paper on first to give it some protection from moisture from the cement.  They will be enclosed inside so they won't see any weather.  Just my 2 cents.
Matt

MReinemann

Found a couple pics.



  

  

  

 

hackberry jake

Very nice! If thats a "pole garage" I'd like to see your house!
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