No more Help needed guys (it's running). 80 miles from home and LT40 broke down

[Full Circle]

Hoping someone can help me. As Woodmizer is closed. Have a 3 day job away from home and mill quit at 4:00 today (day 1).  Engine was running fine all day. Its a kohler Command Pro 28 EFI  has 619 hours  2007 model LT40  Went to engage blade and it was like I turned the key off. No start. I don't have 12 volts at the fuel pump and don't believe I have any spark, but it does crank normally. 12 volts to fuel pump from battery and fuel pump works. I have. cleaned all the grounds I can find and am suspect of the ECU. Can't remember if red light on cover ever came on, but it is not on now. Odd that it happened as I was pulling lever to engage blade. Makes me think rubbed/broken wire, too. But that might just be wishful thinking. Customer is great and I will be staying at his house tonight, hoping to repair in the morning. I'm going to run out of daylight soon. Typing from my phone, so pardon typos. Will be on my laptop later on. Thanks for any ideas, folks.

[Sixacresand]

I would start looking to see if there is a safety interlock switch on the blade engaging lever.  (Riding lawnmowers have these so It will only crank with the blade is not engaged and the clutch in depressed and/or the transmission is in neutral)  You might have to bypass a switch or disconnect the safety interlock system if it has one.   Be careful running it if this is the problem.  I hope you get it running.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Oil sentry? 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Roy, so your saying it just happens when you engage the blade?

[Full Circle]

Thanks for the replies, guys.  I'm on my laptop now, so it's a lot easier.

I don't think it's a safety switch, sixacres, as there aren't any that have to be engaged prioe to the blade.  But it's a good thought.  I don't know if the engine has oil sentry, GA mtn MAn, but the first thing I did was check the oil.  It also ran at idle, when oil pressure should be lowest.  David, the problem arose when I engaged the blade, and it now won't start at all.  The RPM's went up a little then it was like I turned the key off.  It cranks, but shows no sign of firing.  It won't run because the fuel pump's not getting voltage, I just don't know why.  I checked the key switch with my test light, and it seems to be working properly.  I also checked all the fuses near the ECU and they all look good.   One of them is for the fuel pump, I think.  I'd like to check for voltage to the Engine Control Unit (ECU), but don't know where to check it.  Is the light on the ECU cover (to the right of the engine, looking from the operators station) supposed to be lit when things are normal? 
Thanks again, guys.  Roy

[beenthere]

Can you connect voltage direct to the fuel pump and see if it will run then?

[Full Circle]

I'm going to give that a try tomorrow, beenthere, ran out of daylight....    Thanks for the response.

[Nomad]

Check your fuses and breakers.  I'm not sure if one of those could cause that, but it's worth checking.

[isawlogs]

 Had a wire break at the coil on my Onan and it quit just like yours did. Ran fine thern ....nothing, would turn over but no go.  Just saying it culd be a simple broke connection at the coil.  ;)

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Marcel might be right. I would just start tracing the wires back to the battery starting from the fuel pump.
Gotta be something simple Roy. Got my fingers crossed.

[isawlogs]

 A test light and a ohm meter would help big time trying to find a broke wire . Sometimes they can be sneyky.  ;)

[Full Circle]

I would be happy with a simple fix that's hard to find.   maybe it will come to me in a dream....  Tomorrow's a new day.  Got the test light, but no ohm meter, Marcel.

Thanks a lot for your time!

[pineywoods]

Them kohlers can do strange things when the fuel filter clogs

[dgdrls]

Full circle,  which direction out of Dutchess are you?

Ignition switch connection?

DGD

[rmack]

shouldn't be too hard to pull the plug and check for spark, if you have that and pour/squirt some gas in the hole before replacing the plug and then check for any sign of life... would tell you whether it is fuel or spark... assuming you still have compression.

[Jim H]

I had a similar problem several years ago. It was a single terminal in one of the relay plugs. The relay was inside the housing with the ecu and not attached to anything, so I had the bright idea to bolt on to the inside of the housing. After about 100hrs the vibration caused one of the connectors in the plug to crack and come loose. We found it by wiggling and pushing on wires with the switch on and heard the fuel pump come on. Fixing it required getting the old connector out of the plug and finding a replacement, I think it was a narrow spade connector. Hope this helps,   Jim

[redbeard]

I had fuel pump problem last month on my Kohler and culprit was fuel line from tank to pump had cracks and was letting to much air in. I replaced pump and lines. Hope you find a easy fix.

[customsawyer]

I don't know if the gas engines have them but on the diesels there is a black box on the right side of the engine. Inside this box (about 5X8) there is a couple of relays and a black breaker. Some times those relays go bad. You can take and swap the relays to see if that will fix your fuel problem. If it does then you have a bad relay. Check the breaker also as it will have a small button that you push to reset. I would also check all of the relays on the front inside of the control box.

[Full Circle]

Thanks to all of you for your ideas and replies.  It's raining right now.  Hopefully it will stop while I'm getting some breakfast, then I'll go back to chasing this problem down.   
I will post back what I find.  Have a good day, and thank you again.  I appreciate the help!

[Full Circle]

With 12 volts direct to fuel pump from battery, pump works, but it still won't fire. Problem must be further upstream from ECU.    On to relay swapping, etc.

[sawmillhand]

It would differently help if you had a wiring diagram on the system to help troubleshoot.

[customsawyer]

There should be a wiring diagram in your owners manual.

[rmack]

With 12 volts direct to fuel pump from battery, pump works, but it still won't fire. Problem must be further upstream from ECU.    On to relay swapping, etc.

have you confirmed whether it is fuel or spark yet? a working fuel pump doesn't necessarily resolve that question. does the spark plug spark?

[Full Circle]

Hard rain on and off.  More on than off too, it seems.  Going to be like this all day, I think. Next break in rain I'm going to button up what's apart, pack up, and get it home where I can work under a roof. Think today would be a wash anyway.... Thanks again, and will update as I can.

[nk14zp]

If you wasn't heading home I was going to say get a tarp set up so at least you could stay some what dry while you work on it.

[Compensation]

I am guessing it has an electric clutch? If so I would start at maybe working the switch back and forth as you crank or disconnect the clutch and try to start. I always look at what the last thing it was doing when it stopped. I know you know this, but as a reminder don't get over excited and burn a starter up by not letting it cool down.  Hope you get it going.

[NMFP]

did you spray some type of starting fluid in the carb and try turning it over?  If so, did it want to fire or do nothing?  if it fired, its fuel delivery or restriction.  If it didn't fire, its either bad ignition, shorted ignition or a control wire/sensor.

Small engines are pretty simple to manipulate and make run. 

Pull the spark plug, lean it against metal as the ground and see if it shows spark.

No spark either means shorted ignition, bad ignition or bad control wires/switch.

do you have a computerized setworks or just the scale?  If you do not have anything else that needs to run without "dirty power", put power to your ignition module and the starter.. if it fires, there is an external source or point source for the trouble.

Usually when something breaks, it breaks when you don't have the money or the location to work on it, not to mention time.

keep us updated!!

[Full Circle]

Confirmed no spark.

[Full Circle]

This is embarrassing (to put it very mildly).....it's running, and it was the ignition relay behind the cover just below the key switch.  I should have been happy, but that wasn't the first thing I felt. I've never had to go in there before and now I know what's behind the panel. When customsawyer said change out relays, I thought he was referring to the area around the ECU. The only consolation I can come up with is that with all my pushing pulling and prodding I tightened a connection somewhere that may have caused it to pop off in the first place. Thanks to all for the support and I'm very sorry for wasting your time.  Maybe my being ignorant and posting here will help somebody else in the future.  #1 lesson: bring your manuals when you're traveling.

[beenthere]

Don't be embarrassed, as I suspect we enjoyed the discussion and were just a tad bit glad it was you rather than us.

But, the thread will be around for others to read or to point to if and when someone else runs into a problem.

Happy you are up and running, and the repair wasn't a big expense... just took away from your precious time with a customer.  8)

[dgdrls]

This is embarrassing (to put it very mildly).....it's running, and it was the ignition relay behind the cover just below the key switch.  I should have been happy, but that wasn't the first thing I felt. I've never had to go in there before and now I know what's behind the panel. When customsawyer said change out relays, I thought he was referring to the area around the ECU. The only consolation I can come up with is that with all my pushing pulling and prodding I tightened a connection somewhere that may have caused it to pop off in the first place. Thanks to all for the support and I'm very sorry for wasting your time.  Maybe my being ignorant and posting here will help somebody else in the future.  #1 lesson: bring your manuals when you're traveling.

All good lessons, glad you shared with us.

when you heading back?

DGD

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Roy....thats what we all tried to tell you. Check the ignition relay behind the cover just below the key switch. :D

Seriously, I am glad you are up and running. Thanks for sharing your problem. It'll help me if when this happens to mine.

Good job Roy! 

[Chuck White]

Roy; Although I don't know a lot about engines, I'm learning little-by-little when people have problems such as yours!

It really will help someone else out someday, when they have the same thing happen to them and they do a search here on the Forestry Forum.

Glad you got it going again.

Thanks for posting!

[Full Circle]

Thanks for the kind words, beenthere.  Wounded pride vs wounded wallet......Wounded wallet might have been easier than typing that post for you all to read.
DGD, I was out west of Port Jervis (to answer your question from yesterday) and thankfully, my customer is a good guy and was great about the whole thing.  We did get a good day in yesterday, at least.  I'll get back as soon as I can.  Hopefully within a few weeks.  Thanks for asking.  David, if it happens to you, and you're feeling a little sheepish, just remember that guy Roy who didn't even check the relay first...  it will make you feel better.  Chuck, when I got home my daughter said" Dad, it all happens for a reason."  Maybe what you said is the reason.  

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

You're a good guy Roy! 

[Magicman]

I'm very sorry for wasting your time.  Maybe my being ignorant and posting here will help somebody else in the future.

There was no time wasted, and there are no dumb questions.  When we share our woes that information will help someone else along the sawing path.  Everyone here is just as eager to share information as others are to receive it.

Your contribution was coming back and sharing what was done to correct the failure.  Thank you for following through.   

[Ga Mtn Man]

Glad you're up and running Roy and that it didn't cost you too much more than your time.

So, does the ignition relay power everything on the motor but the starter?  That info could come in handy some day.

[ladylake]

 As mentioned your problem will help someone with the same problem down the road, no wasted time at all.  Steve

[Ianab]

Embarrassing is when you discover the ignition switch wasn't actually turned to "On".  :-[

Finding it was a dodgy connection to an obscure relay is "fault finding'  ;) :D

[isawlogs]

 Glad you're up and runnin' no lost time here,... been down the down road without a paddle a few times  :-\  Glad you will be sawing if the weather permits when daylight comes around. 

[thecfarm]

Port Jervis,we use to get off the freeway there and go the highway the rest of the way to PA. Use to eat at The Diner. Grease and all. That was good food.Head through Delaware Water Gap after the fine meal. I could right a book on the easy things I have missed. I could write another book on the easy things that I have found for other people. Seem like we all can slow down and THINK.  :D  I should take my own advice.

[justallan1]

Thanks for posting with the answer to your problem, Roy. Whether this one in particular will help me doesn't matter, but it will help some for sure one day. That's why I'm on here, to get every advantage that I can.

Allan

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

 

 

[rmack]

 

nice to hear Woodmizer has a Manuel... is he the guy who delivers the manuals? 

[GDinMaine]

Thanks for posting this!
I had to cut my day short once, because I could not figure out why I was getting no response from the feed motor.  Only later did I think to try the fuses.  I just had to push the fuse button on the OUTSIDE of the control box.  How is that for embarrassing and loosing 1/3 day of work? 

[isawlogs]

  Not zat all, it.s called learnin'    :P :P :P :P

[Ga Mtn Man]

Glad you're up and running Roy and that it didn't cost you too much more than your time.

So, does the ignition relay power everything on the motor but the starter?  That info could come in handy some day.

??? ???

[schakey]

Thanks Roy this (and many other post) helps us that haven't got a mill yet!
(But soon  ;D).
I  drive in the Port Jarvis area on my way to Maybrook going to YRC terminal.
Love that country side.

[customsawyer]

I am glad that you are up and running. I am not sure if there is enough room in this post to list all of the simple things that I have called WM about. The number of times that I have felt like the biggest idiot is embarrassing. The main thing to remember is that we are all here to help each other. Even if it is at our own expense.

[Full Circle]

Glad you're up and running Roy and that it didn't cost you too much more than your time.

So, does the ignition relay power everything on the motor but the starter?  That info could come in handy some day.

??? ???

Yes, Dave.  If the relay is tripped, there is no spark and no power to the fuel pump.  The starter works normally.  Good thing hydraulics work, too, so you can unload the log you have on the mill and still pack it up, and head home.....

Thanks again guys.  I know it's all good.  And as I like to say, if that's the worst thing that happens to me today, I'm doing just fine.  (It just takes awhile to remember that sometimes).