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I suck at sharpening chains.

Started by Firewoodking, February 26, 2013, 11:21:52 PM

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Firewoodking

Do those chop saw style chain grinders work good?
Firewoodking

beenthere

As good as the operator. Not trying to be smarty here, but they do take some careful setup and adjusting to get it right. And they remove material "fast" so can eat up a good chain in a hurry or burn the steel if too aggressive.

I much prefer 'by hand filing' as it is less aggressive and I get a good sharp tooth.

What appears to be going awry?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Firewoodking

Maybe this chain is too far gone.

I normally just buy new ones so I have like twenty that need sharpening.
They sure cut great when they are new!
Firewoodking

beenthere

Could you post a good closeup of the chain you suspect is too far gone?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ianab

Even a cheap grinder or Dremel attachment will get a chain sharpened like "new", as long as you are careful using it. So will a simple file, with some sort of guide if you are not an expert.

Unless a chain has be seriously abused it's never "too far gone", unless there is like no cutter left to sharpen. Even if it's hit rocks, or been filed wrong etc you can still carefully grind or file away the damaged or blunt part and get a good sharp cutter with 90% of it's life left.

Learning to use a file is a VERY good skill. Lets you touch up a chain in the field as soon as it looses it's edge. Means it only takes a couple of file strokes to freshen up the edge. When you let it get REALLY blunt you need to grind away a lot of material to get past the rounded over edge of the cutter. So you chew through a lot more of the chains life to get it back into shape.

If you saw through a nail or something, then you might want to slap on a spare chain, and tidy it up later with your grinder.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

jdtuttle

 It's a nice hybrid between hand-sharpening and gadget-sharpening. The extra piece of metal hanging off is to help sharpen the depth gauges. After you use it awhile you get the feel for the proper angles. 

 
Have a great day

DaleK

The Pferd/Husqvarna "Sharp Force" files/guides are a pretty easy way to sharpen a chain consistently.
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/product-accessories/filing-equipment/sharp-force-file-guide/
Hud-Son Oscar 330
Wallenstein FX110
Echo chainsaws and a whole bunch of tractors

bandmiller2

Woodking,grinding has got a bad rap due to hardware store kids in a rush.Get a good grinder like the Origon one from Italy.Follow the instructions and only grind lightly.I used one exclusivly for 20 years and had very long chain life would sharpen several times without changing the adjustment.As with a file the secret is keeping your bar out of the dirt and rocks.I go boath ways now, file and grind,it keeps your angles honest. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Happycamper

Haven't used it yet but looks to be a well made though out unit. Comes with three different size grinding wheels.
                        Jim


 
Wether you think you can or you can't you're right

thecfarm

I know in this area at the local school they have night classes on saw maintenance and sharping is taught too. I had a REAL HARD time too at sharping. I finally got frustrated with myself and took a log and kept sharping and sawing until I got it right. There must be utubes on it.Maybe someone could show you what they do? Once you get it,its very simple. Don't think you can't do it either. There are many devices to hold a file too.
I did forget to mention,mark where you start so you know where to stop. Very important to take the same amount of stokes and TRY to keep the same pressure on each tooth too. Some take the chain off and put it in a vise and others put the bar in the vice to sharpen. When you are still learning to sharpen,keep track of what you are doing.If it gets better you are doing something right.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: thecfarm on February 27, 2013, 09:24:38 AM
There are many devices to hold a file too.

You're right.

And I use one like this:



 

Back in the early 80's when I was in the firewood business, I would take my dull chain to the saw shop and have them grind it, to sharpen it.
Then one day the fellow who ran the saw shop was out.
Another guy was there and said he couldn't run the grinder but he could file it for me to sharpen it.
He did.
It cut so much better.
Another day, I asked the saw shop guy to teach me how to file.
He handed me a file and said "go at it".
I had a real hard time doing it and holding the file correctly all the time at every tooth at the correct angles.
My roommate at the time had one of the Oregon filing guides he used to hold his file correctly.
I went out an bought one right away.
I have used it every time I sharpen my saw since.
I am very happy with the way it sharpens.
You can set the angle for the tooth, the up angle if you want one and the depth as well as the spacing. There is no chance you're going to file it wrong, in my opinion.

Now they tell you to find the worst tooth and sharpen that one first. Count the number of pushes you do to sharpen it. And do all the others that much. This way all the teeth are the same length.

I tired that back then.
I found that if I just sharpen each tooth 10 strokes then most all of them will be very sharp.
I know some will say 10 strokes is too much but this is what works for me.
Sometimes 10 strokes isn't enough for the worst tooth. So I may go around a second time. Or just sharpen again very soon after.

Understanding how to lower your rakers is also important.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

CTYank

I've been using the Granberg version of Jim's guide, for many years. I've tried, and failed, to find anything better. (Meaning: better edge and/or less metal removal.)
Free-hand filing is simply random; honest users will admit to periodic visits to the grinder.
Guided filing is quick, simple, precise. Minimizes metal removal. Some experts use such a guide on brand-new or just-ground chains to take them to peak performance.
I keep a Granberg guide in my field bag, so I can touch up a chain in the field. Takes only a couple of minutes unless it's been rocked.
There's a certain "zen" about setup/use. Once you get it, you've got it. 20 minutes show&tell with buddy weaned him from dealer's grinder; guide was ~$20.
Often, 2 strokes is plenty for a touch-up. 10 strokes?  ::)  NO.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
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Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

beenthere

My "guide" is the Oregon version, and it sits on the shelf in the box after using it a very few times. Much too long to setup, IMO.
I don't take chains to a grinder although about 6 chains ago I did get into a nail in a log so it went to the grinder.
Hand filed with the file holder guide some, then just hand filed with the bare file. That was working well as long as I paid attention to the hook (depth of file cut).
Then I tried the Pferd blue guide (shown a couple posts back) and it is simple and very easy and almost just as quick as drop it on, couple good strokes, and on to the next tooth. Prolly 5 minutes for filing both angles with the saw bar in the bench vise.
And I think I am an honest user.  ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

clww

Well, I haven't used a grinder or a guide in 30 years. But honestly, I'm not a full-time logger, either.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

thecfarm

Guess I'm not an honest hand filing.   ;)  My chains have never seen a grinder,even after hitting a rock. I think if I took mine to have them grind at a saw shop,$7-8 each?  I cut alot of stumps down very close to the ground,that's where's the rocks come from. I get real good at sharpening.I am in the process of clearing a grown up pasture. I won't even talk about the maple that grow in a clump with 3-8 stems growing out of one stump. Start cutting them down low and most times I have to resharpen half way through the stump.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ianab

What this thread shows is there is more than one way to keep a chain sharp. An expert can do it freehand with a file, us mere mortals can use a file and guide, and there is the grinder option which is fine as long as you you are careful.

Some methods take a bit more practice than others.  ;)

But with all those options, there is no excuse for a dull chain  :D

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

thecfarm

I may not be an honest hand filing,but I'm no expert either.  :D
If I tried another way now,I would have to relearn how to do it all over again. I had enough trouble just learning one way.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

lumberjack48

I hand filed 30 yrs, full time logger, the thing is once you can get the feel of the file in your hand, the right angle, the pitch, the depth of the file in the cutter, and watch the cutter get sharper with every stroke of the file. It might be one stroke or ten if you hit something, once the shinny edge is gone its sharp. The rakers have to be cut randomly as you file the chain for it to cut properly.
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

ladylake


Grinders work great and are easy to run, set the tilt on 60, the angle on 30 and most important get the wheel low enough so the side of the wheel hits the face of the tooth.  Also grinders used right take no more off than a file sharpening, just touch the face of the tooth when grinding unless rocked out then both methods will take off just as much to get rid of the damage.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Al_Smith

I've had two chains ground that I can remember and that was in the early 70's.

Chain filing is a learned art which some pick up easily and some never do get good at. The only way to get good at it is to do it .

Now I do have a Dremel but the only time it ever gets used is on a badly damaged chains .Last spring I repaired about 20 damaged chains I got from a trimmer bud ,I used it then .It took a best part of a day but they were all high priced Stihl chains s so it was worth the time spent

MEloggah

i file by  hand on the tailgate with the tip of my bar pushed into that 90* corner where the tailgate closes. thats how i learned about 25 years ago. ifi 'need' to do it in the woods ill cut into a stump for a makeshift vice. some guys i know toss a chain when it gets back to the witness mark. dad and i always kept those around cuz they are getting just about right for cutting hardwood. we typically file them down to the point where ive seen the tooth break off during filing and they cut like a mo'fo up to that point. ill take about any chain a man wants to junk if i think it has any life in it.....as long at its full skip :)

qbilder

I guess I fail to see the mystique. I hand file most of the time, and have an el-cheapo harbor freight grinder for other times. The grinder keeps the shape nice and easily fixes the screw ups from rocks. When hand filing, I use my finger tips to know if it's sharp or not, much like when I sharpen a knife. If it feels like it could slice my skin with any pressure then it's sharp. I never paid much attention to how many swipes I took per tooth. I just sharpen until each tooth is sharp. They seem to cut just fine & last well. They cut much faster when freshly sharpened, just like when new.

My old man on the other hand, is a filing genius/purist. That old man is quick at it, too. He's always barking at me about how I sharpen and how my chains should look like his. But when we're both into wood, there's no noticeable difference in cutting speed. Sharp is sharp regardless how you get there, IMO. I hit too many rocks cutting stumps & burls to keep pretty chains.     
God bless our troops

Jim H

I used an oregon clamp on guide for several years. When I started sharpening a lot I tried freehand filing and have been doing it that way ever since. If I have time I give the chain 1 or 2 strokes when I fill up the saw.
2008 LT40HDG28, autoclutch, debarker, stihl 026, 046, ms460 bow, 066, JD 2350 4wd w/245 loader, sawing since '94 fulltime since '98

ChopperDan

I can do ok with a file but I like the results from the timberline sharpener better.

http://www.timberlinesharpener.com/
550xpg
562xp
Makita 6421 converted to 7900 X2
Hd SuperSpitter

Firewoodking

that timberline sharpener looks way cool.

What is a full skip chain?
Firewoodking

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