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One more Peterson Question

Started by Qweaver, January 14, 2014, 11:08:10 AM

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Qweaver

Are any Peterson owners having success getting the clutch to work?  If so...How?  I'm sick of the blade continuing to turn at idle.  It presents a danger that should not be there.

Quinton
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Qweaver

I freed up the clutch this morning and it locked up again within just a few minutes.  After many talks with Peterson it appears that the only reason that this devise was put on the saw was to meet government regulations.  What a joke, I pay for a $500+ clutch that does not work because some office of the gov. says I have to.  It's a good idea that the blade should stop at idle, BUT IT DOES NOT WORK.  That's why I was asking if it was working for other Peterson owners.

I really like this saw but the clutch and wheel problems are not acceptable on a $28,000 saw.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

js2743

No matter if they put it on there because of regulations or not, they should have come up with a idea to stop the blade. For a machine that cost 28K ever part of it should work.   

beenthere

Are we back to "bashing" again?   ::)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Qweaver

Not "bashing" at all.  I really like the saw but a $500 part that will not work and wheels that will not keep the tire on the rim should not have been put on this machine in the 1st place and should be fixed in the 2nd place.
I've been a certified welder most of my life and my welds have to meet the code and my fabrications have to work and last.  No exceptions.  Why should it be any different for a sawmill manufacturer?
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

highleadtimber16

I agree with Qweaver, if it's on there it should work.
2011 Wood-Mizer LT 40 hyd w/ 12' Extension,
EG 200 Wood-Mizer
Cutting Old Growth Cedar from Queen Charlotte Islands.

sigidi

Quinton, I feel the same way mate, if its put on there to comply with a standard (especially a saftey standard) then surely its gotta go the distance, not just last until the inspector leaves the yard!!!

Mate I'll take a pic of the setup Lucas have on the 10" as I think it maybe something you could add if the clutch works along the same fashion, even if it doesn't have the same setup maybe it'll give you an idea for an add on to get the DanG thing safe - I like you think the blade should be stopped when the mill idles down, basic safety?!?!?!
Always willing to help - Allan

Qweaver

I sawed a 36" log with the Peterson today and the clutch worked fine.  When I stopped and shut the saw down the clutch locked up again and I could not get it to break lose.  I will have to take a hammer and drift down there tomorrow to break it lose.  This is just ridicules.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Dave Shepard

What kind of clutch. Centrifugal, electric? I've never seen a swinger up close.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

terrifictimbersllc

IMO, and  I might be wrong, but it seems to me the main purpose of the clutching system is to stop the blade ASAP when the kill switch is hit, not to prevent it from turning at idle. 

There are two clutches, both centrifugal.   The main one is in the middle of the shaft, and engages to drive the triple pulley when the engine speed is increased from idle, and spins free of the shaft again, when back at idle.  The second one is fastened to the end of the shaft, and its purpose is to stop the free wheeling of the triple pulley (and belts/gearbox/blade), when the engine is stopped by the kill switch.   This it does well, but perhaps too well, as it usually keeps the blade spinning at idle.

This second "clutch" is fastened to the end of the shaft by a bolt, and has two pieces which are threaded together with a coarse thread.  One piece is locked to the shaft with the bolt,  and the other heavier piece spins about a turn on the coarse thread.  When the engine revs, the larger piece threads into the smaller one on the coarse thread, and is pulled away from the side of the triple drive pulley. Alternatively, when the engine suddenly is suddenly stopped with the kill switch, inertia drives the heavier piece to spin in the other direction on the coarse thread so that it is pushed up against the side of the triple pulley, which effectively locks the drive pulley to the shaft and stops the blade. 

Apparently the second clutch also sometimes throws itself against the drive pulley when the engine is brought from full speed to an idle, not just when the engine is stopped more suddenly with the kill switch.   So the blade keeps turning at idle since the second clutch mechanism has locked the shaft to the drive belt defeating the idle mode of the main clutch.  It seems to be a delicate balance and I'm wondering if it can be controlled by what kind or how much anti-sieze compound is use on the coarse thread, or possibly on the interface between this clutch and the drive pulley.   In the extreme one can also find the blade locked to the engine which causes difficulty in sharpening the blade or removing the blade bolts.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Qweaver

But why even have a $500 mechanism on there if it never releases?  Just bolt it direct and you have the same result.  The blade will stop as soon as the kill switch is hit.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

terrifictimbersllc

It does release but not always.  Sometimes mine idles with the blade still, and sometimes the blade is free when I'm sharpening or changing it.  The release is just spotty.   Next time I use it I think i'll see what happens if I turn the speed more slowly towards idle, not all at once.  Or speed it back up all at once and close it down again more slowly.   Also, next time it's not releasing,  I'll take off the cover and make sure the centrifugally driven ring on the outer clutch turns back and forth by hand.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Qweaver

Well, I've tried all that you suggest. The outer ring is absolutely free on mine. I even took a fine file and de-burred mine.  I've never tried anti-seize and that may help.  I sawed all morning and it only locked up once...but that's too much.  I wonder how Peterson would fare in court if someone got hurt because of a device that clearly does not function as it should.  I don't really consider it a safety issue tho'.  Just a nuisance.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Qweaver on January 16, 2014, 12:48:32 PM
Well, I've tried all that you suggest. The outer ring is absolutely free on mine. I even took a fine file and de-burred mine.  I've never tried anti-seize and that may help.  I sawed all morning and it only locked up once...but that's too much.  I wonder how Peterson would fare in court if someone got hurt because of a device that clearly does not function as it should.  I don't really consider it a safety issue tho'.  Just a nuisance.
Can you say when it's "locked up", if the outer ring is pressed up against the drive pulley or is it away from it? 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Lifestyler

Hi Q, as DJ from Terrific Timbers mentioned the clutch system on your WPF has two components the Centrifugal Clutch Pulley and the Clutch Brake. When running larger horse power engines like the 38hp Kohler or the 35hp Vanguard gasoline engine there is a lot more inertia generated when lowering the throttle or pushing your E-stop. I guess the clutch brake works too well therefore as Chris Browne  mentioned to you a couple of days ago, simply apply a coating of anti-seize over the coarse thread of the clutch brake and on the outer surface of the fiber pad.


Mt406

Hi
I have a D&L My clutch will turn blade at idle first thing in the morning but after a few mins warm up it stops.

 

Wife

Hi Qweaver,

Yes Terrific Timbers is quite correct, and per the comprehensive email I sent to you in 2012 - the blade WILL spin slowly at idle. That is not a CE requirement or a safety issue at all unless you are putting your hands under guards or where they should not be - heaven forbid.

By the sounds of things it works as it should, but yes if you used antiseize as I recommended in 2012, and again by Chris last week, it will transfer between locked and unlocked a bit easier. But again, it's QUITE OK if it is locked in idle - you do not need to free it every time manually. It will free itself up as you rev up - that's how it is supposed to work. But please DO let us know if the ESTOP does not work (ie dead stop of everything within 10 seconds) - so give that a test next time you are at the mill.

I believe Chris sent you some free blade tips last year purely as a goodwill gesture for your frustrations. But do keep letting us know how you get on.
In regards the wheels, you may recollect I offered you a credit for those at the time, and you'll be pleased to know we have since upgraded to the steel rims to prevent inadvertent over-inflating. So thank for bringing that to our attention.

Appreciate direct communication with any issues at all - we are always here by the phone and email, and more than happy to help even if it is explaining how a mechanism works. I've just now emailed you a copy of the specific Clutch/Brake Manual and a copy of my earlier 2012 email of how this device works. Please call us back on freephone 1877 327 1471 if you would like Chris to clarify anything at all.


Cheers
Kerris Browne, CEO
Kerris, in the background....
Petersons Global Sales Ltd
15c Hyland Cres
Rotorua, New Zealand
www.petersonsawmills.com
kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com
Ph +64 7 3480863

POSTON WIDEHEAD

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The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Qweaver

OK, I have to reply
Kerris, just to be correct, I was originally told to put grease on the clutch, not anti-seize.   Which I did.  You did not send a new threaded piece but I did de-burr it when I had it apart and it does not need to be replaced.  I have talked to two other owners that have the same problem.  I was unable to disassemble the clutch to put anti-seize on it when I tried a few day ago.  If the clutch stays locked up, then while it will stop the blade as the engine stops...so will just bolting it direct.  So the clutch/brake serves no function.  It cost me $45 to replace the defective wheels and I do not recall being offered a refund. 
I am very satisfied with the saw other than the clutch and wheels.    This clutch/brake should have been assembled with anti-seize at the factory but it NEVER worked properly for me and I truly don't believe it works properly for you either.   I will get it apart in the next few days and try the anti-seize.  This is just not a good design for this purpose.  Remember that I have 45 years of design and fabrication experience and a pretty good eye for what will and will not work.  Your clutch has a high probability of not working. Sure it locks up...but after a few lock/unlock cycles  it locks up and never unlocks again.  So why have it?

I will call again tomorrow and talk with Chris.

Quinton

So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Qweaver


I need to point out that the WPF is an excellent machine built out of the very best materials.  I truly enjoy milling these huge logs that I've always had to pass up because of the limited size logs that will fit on my band mill.  Even the troublesome brake that I have not been able to make function correctly does not effect the saws ability to easily saw an entire log into quarter sawn high grade lumber without ever turning the log.
Kudos to Peterson for building a quality product.  I'm going the follow the manual  they sent me and see if I can fix this problem.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Qweaver

I should note here that it is the brake that is locking up, not the clutch.  I did not recognize the difference until Peterson sent me a manual showing a drawing of the clutch/brake assembly.  I sure wish I'd had this manual sooner.  This info is not in the manual that came with the saw.  I'll anti-seize it today and that may well fix the problem. Going to idle with the brake locked up is a hurky/jerky  affair.  Really smooth when it unlocks.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Part_Timer

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,16900.msg243209.html#msg243209

Qweaver- look down this thread and toward the middle I have some pics showing what positions the clutch and break should be in.  Absolutely use some anti-seize or spray lube if you don't want to completely disassemble it.  When sawing regular I take mine down and clean it once a year.  If you notice it sticking on a regular basis then more than once a year may be necessary.
While I don't work for Petersons anymore (DanG day jobs) I'm more than happy to help any Peterson owner out with any questions they may have.  Just shoot me a PM any time, if I can help I will.
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

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