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Edging for grade?

Started by Dave Shepard, April 10, 2008, 07:23:58 PM

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Dave Shepard

I'm sawing up about 10mbf of black cherry right now. Some of the logs are really nice, not to hard to figure out which pile to put those boards in. ;) Some of the logs are lower quality, and I am having a hard time trying to figure out the best way to process these boards. The boards are going to be sent to a kiln. I am not sure where to draw the line on some boards. Is it practical to send a board to be dried, and then chop out the pieces that are usable when it comes back? There are many boards that have a defect, but are clear on either end. I can edge a lot of these boards down in width to make it clear, but that is making the edging pile awfully big.

I guess I need to take a grading course, would like to take the one at PA Wood-Mizer, but not sure I can make it. I am having a bit of a hard time accepting that the cants are going to move around on me a lot too. I am used to the stability of pine. Are there set widths that grade lumber is sawn to, or do you just take what the face gives you? I am guessing that after drying any extra width will be an advantage to deal with movement of the board.

I have been using the setworks to pattern saw, and I am leaving a 6" cant, which I am sawing into 2"x6" for some heavy duty stone pallets that we need. Not ideal, but I don't think this stuff should go to the kiln.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

beenthere

Dave
Sounds like you should at least read up on the wane allowed in a graded board. That could be your guide for edging, not knowing more about the size and units of the clear cuttings.

Hardwood lumber is random width, and doesn't require clear edges.

Just a thought.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Dave Shepard

Thanks beenthere. I have been reading the articles in the new Sawmill and Woodlot. That has already pointed out some flaws in our operation. It seems the most important thing is what does the end user/buyer want. ;) Back to the books. :P


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Ron Wenrich

NHLA grade book:

http://www.natlhardwood.org/pdf/2007_Rules.pdf

Read it and know it if you're going to saw for grade.  Also, know your buyers, as they may have a little bit different specs.  Some guys don't want much sapwood in cherry.

If you're sawing for select grade, then your minimum cutting is a 4" width and 6' length.  But, you have to be pretty clear.  You have to fall within certain standards as for the clear face cuttings you will need.

If you are sawing for a FAS face, then you're going to need a 6" width.  Maximum amount of wane allowance is 1/2 the length in the aggregate. 

You can upgrade some boards by taking some of the defect off.  That's great if its only about an inch or two.  All depends on price.  If you can upgrade and get a better board and only lose a foot or two, then you might be OK, especially in cherry.  Sometimes the 1 Com price is nearly as good as the uppers, so upgrading isn't needed as much.

I have wide boards that I can pull a FAS off the top and a 2 Com off the bottom.  It pays better than 1 Com.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

woodmills1

are you sawing for yourself or a customer?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Dave Shepard

The kiln will buy clear cherry, I don't know what grade you want to call it, but it has to be absolutely clear. The rest will be brought home to be processed into flooring, panelling, and furniture stock.


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

BBTom

I look at the difference in price between two grades to determine the break-even point in edging off defect.  If FAS is 1.5 times the price of 1C then you can edge off 1/4 of your board width and make more money if it changes the grade of the board from 1C to FAS. 1/3 of the board is break even point.  You may even have a couple short narrow pieces in what you edged off, like for narrow flooring, pen turning blanks, or small spindle turning blanks if you have a use for it.  
2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

woodmills1

if they only buy clear I think you need to figure how much you want and make the rest clear.  I figure I always have wood but can only sell so much of what someone else wants.  Have had my mill since 95 and will always cut for the sale cause I have more leftovers than I will ever use.  btw used to pick up pallets to take home and see what i got, now I give wood away.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Ron Wenrich

I would be looking at other markets.  Selling clears to one place only makes sense if you're not accumulating a bunch of other wood.  You should also be getting a good premium for selling only clears. 

We ususally have saw for several markets for every species we saw.  When someone wants clears, they get it for FAS + premium prices.  We also have markets for F1F and better, Common grades, and pallet grades.

When you are cutting back a board to make a clear, you may also be cutting back a F1F board to a FAS board.  That's not a smart move, since the price differential is usually only $10/Mbf.  But, if you only have one market, then your hands are tied.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

MartyParsons

Dave,
This is what the NHLA grading course is designed to help you do. If you dont make ours there are many others out there scheduled through out the year. The last NHLA course we held we sawed a log and discussed where would be the best opening cut then graded the lumber. We then discussed why we should edge the lumber at this area. We edged the lumber and raised the value of the lumber just by using the NHLA rules to our advantage.
Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Larry

Dave, I was keeping good records of my wholesale lumber sales.  After attending the 3 day NHLA course my bottom line increased 10%...the course proved to be a good investment.

Couple of other thoughts...if your going to further process the lumber after the kiln go easy on the edging to allow for straight line ripping.  You might check and see if you have a market for flooring to get rid of your low grade cants.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Ed

A friend of mine sold some Cherry to a buyer for the first time last year. The buyer had his grader contact my friend and for cash, the grader spent a Saturday going through all the cants, board by board.

Many were re-edged to up the grade, some discarded because they would lower the grade, etc.

The end result was the grader made some extra $$$, my friend learned a lot and increased his profit on the sale even after paying the grader. The buyer was also happy because there were no hidden suprises in the lumber.

Ed

Dave Shepard

I had a visit from someone who owns a large flooring mill today. He has been in the wood biz for a long time. He went over how I was sawing and edging, and gave me a lot of pointers that have helped me to make choices when sawing and edging. I also have a better understanding of what the buyer of our higher grade material wants, which really helps. We will be using the lower grades, so we can utilize more of the lower grade lumber. It is going to be made into panelling and flooring, so if it is clear one face, that can be treated as clear for our purposes. I'm starting to see indicators in grain pattern that tell me when a clear face on one side, probably won't be on the other, that helps.  Always learning! 8)


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dave Shepard

We sorted, graded and trimmed yeserday. First batch yeilded 3392 feet, with 480 going clear. We didn't keep track of the other grades, as that is all coming back from the kiln. Only had 6-8 boards that were edged up a grade. I am waiting to see what the next batch will be, as the logs are much better. Several logs in the 24" range with good clear faces. I've got a nice stack of clear x wide out of the first couple today. 8) Having someone in the business really helps take the guess work out of things. ;)


Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

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