logging pulpwood

arborman · January 31, 2010, 06:03:20 PM

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and already am excited to talk with everyone. Ther seems to be alot of knowledgable people here. I have a background in arborculture,and have been around logging most of my life in one form or another.My question to you today is this, I am looking to do pulpwood logging here in the fingerlakes reigon of NY. I know the market is bad across the board, but im looking to move in another direction. i've always loved logging and it would be nice to get into it again on a small scale. I have many other questions for you but this is to start with. Thanks, Mark

Coon · January 31, 2010, 06:15:38 PM

Welcome to the forum. You came to the right place for help. Others will be around shortly. Sounds like you definately have some form of sawdust in the blood. Do you have your own property to get your logs from? How small of a scale are you planning? We love to see pics.

Brad.

Don K · January 31, 2010, 06:30:41 PM

Welcome to the forum, Mark.

Don

arborman · January 31, 2010, 06:50:17 PM

I have 60 acres total with about 35 in hard maple, beech, hickory and cherry. I thought I would start out small , do nothing bigger than say 50- 60 acres. I have a JD 5205 (50hp) tractor and want to invest in a winch. Start small and work my way up. I will get you guys some pictures in short order.

Mark K · January 31, 2010, 08:47:49 PM

Welcome to the forum. Actually markets are not that bad right now, logs are moving and paying good but for how long, who knows. My log buyer told me to be prepared for a hit by summer so were trying to move as much wood as possible now. Pulp markets aren't bad but the biggest killer is trucking. If you can find a way or somebody to haul it cheap you will do all right. Good luck.

Magicman · January 31, 2010, 09:22:57 PM

arborman....Welcome to The Forestry Forum. 8)

groundguy · January 31, 2010, 09:36:32 PM

Go get some logs big fella!!!

welcome to the forum!

My son and I are trying to edge our way into some small scale logging as well... can't wait to hear the first big one hit the ground!

Ed_K · February 01, 2010, 08:18:13 AM

Welcome, if you can afford it,get a winch that has the radio remote control. I really wish i had bought it. I run a landini 60 hp w/Tajfun winch and a forestry trailer. If not the remote invest in a couple of self release pulley's.

thecfarm · February 01, 2010, 08:22:13 AM

In my eyes,on a small scale there is not much money in pulp.Logs is where the money is on a small scale.I use to do what you want to do,on my land.But I sold logs too.With the trees I have,pulp is just a way to clean up the woods. When I was cutting white pine,I left the pulp,small stuff,in the woods.I almost got stuck with a load because it had started to turn.I cut as many logs out as I can and that does not leave much for pulp.But the paper company can leave theirs sitting around all summer,that's fine.I saw this just up the road from me. :

Also need to haul in on someone else's contract.Some will change you a dollar some 7 dollars a cord. :

I was lucky,the trucker I had would let me go on his contract for free.But that helped him too. Than you need to get it trucked too.I have no idea in your area how much that is.It might surprised you on this amount.There may not be much left over for you to really make some money with pulp.But do buy a 3pt winch.They come in real handy for your yearly firewood and should last a lifetime.

arborman · February 01, 2010, 11:54:42 AM

Quote from: thecfarm on February 01, 2010, 08:22:13 AM
In my eyes,on a small scale there is not much money in pulp.Logs is where the money is on a small scale.I use to do what you want to do,on my land.But I sold logs too.With the trees I have,pulp is just a way to clean up the woods. When I was cutting white pine,I left the pulp,small stuff,in the woods.I almost got stuck with a load because it had started to turn.I cut as many logs out as I can and that does not leave much for pulp.But the paper company can leave theirs sitting around all summer,that's fine.I saw this just up the road from me. : Also need to haul in on someone else's contract.Some will change you a dollar some 7 dollars a cord. : I was lucky,the trucker I had would let me go on his contract for free.But that helped him too. Than you need to get it trucked too.I have no idea in your area how much that is.It might surprised you on this amount.There may not be much left over for you to really make some money with pulp.But do buy a 3pt winch.They come in real handy for your yearly firewood and should last a lifetime.

Thanks for the info,By logs do you mean hardwood/soft wood or both.I was trying to avoid the hardwood market because everybody and his brother seem to be in it.I was hoping to kind of tap into an area that nobody seems to bother with.

arborman · February 01, 2010, 11:57:34 AM

Quote from: Ed_K on February 01, 2010, 08:18:13 AM
Welcome, if you can afford it,get a winch that has the radio remote control. I really wish i had bought it. I run a landini 60 hp w/Tajfun winch and a forestry trailer. If not the remote invest in a couple of self release pulley's.

How do you like your winch? I wanted to look at a Farmi,but any advice on a good brand would help. Thanks.

arborman · February 01, 2010, 12:07:25 PM

Quote from: Mark K on January 31, 2010, 08:47:49 PM
Welcome to the forum. Actually markets are not that bad right now, logs are moving and paying good but for how long, who knows. My log buyer told me to be prepared for a hit by summer so were trying to move as much wood as possible now. Pulp markets aren't bad but the biggest killer is trucking. If you can find a way or somebody to haul it cheap you will do all right. Good luck.

Do you do much pulp work? would it be fesable on a small scale? That would be a sticking point for me,do you do your own hauling or do you cotract it out and what would you pay roughly? Thanks

Mark K · February 01, 2010, 05:01:07 PM

Arborman, If you do pulp on your own land and know someone to truck it you will do alright. I do some contract cutting for a mill in the area which processes hardwood, the pulp is left to us to sell. I have it trucked to Glens Falls, the trucker usually gets half the check. I do very little pulp on woodlots that I am doing my own deal. The hemlock I buy and saw myself. The tops and low grade hardwood are firewood or go for pallet grade.

stonebroke · February 01, 2010, 05:12:49 PM

I would think that at least for the hardwoods you would be better off selling them as firewood logs or split firewood, Just my two cents.

Stonebroke

hollywoodmfg · February 01, 2010, 06:04:53 PM

Ya what stonebroke said.

bill m · February 01, 2010, 06:20:47 PM

In my area we do not send any hardwood for pulp, it all goes for firewood. As for soft wood we do send some pine and hemlock but the closest yard is about 45 miles from here. By the time you pay the trucker and me there is not much left for the land owner. But it does get the stuff out of the woods and makes for as cleaner job ( one of the most important aspects of logging in this neck of the woods).

Twig farmer · February 01, 2010, 06:32:03 PM

Being a long ways from a good market is tough. But delivering firewood with a tri-axle or worse yet a TT is a real pain in the ass. You are always going some place new, and you don't know what you'll find...it might be a fast drop off, or it might take 4 hours....if you find a septic system that's supposed to be 100' away from where you're backing in...or power lines...or impossibly tight driveways...

Chipping or grinding for pellet plants or power generation is an expensive option, but in the long run it might be the best answer...if the market is there..

bill m · February 01, 2010, 06:51:26 PM

Quote from: Twig farmer on February 01, 2010, 06:32:03 PM
Being a long ways from a good market is tough. But delivering firewood with a tri-axle or worse yet a TT is a real pain in the ass. You are always going some place new, and you don't know what you'll find...it might be a fast drop off, or it might take 4 hours....if you find a septic system that's supposed to be 100' away from where you're backing in...or power lines...or impossibly tight driveways...

I sell it off of the landing to the trucker and he has the customers to deal with.

Quote from: Twig farmer on February 01, 2010, 06:32:03 PM

Chipping or grinding for pellet plants or power generation is an expensive option, but in the long run it might be the best answer...if the market is there..

Those markets are even farther away.

Mark K · February 01, 2010, 07:03:19 PM

I do the same as bill m. I sell it on the landing log length, dont have to worry about messing any yards up. Chip markets are pretty good here, but you have to have enough to make it worth while. Landowner still only gets a few $ a ton.

timberfaller390 · February 01, 2010, 07:07:30 PM

There is almost no such thing as small scale pulpwooding any more. Here there used to be guys that hauled short wood on 1 ton trucks but that is over. Current pine pulp price is $13.50 per ton. that doesn't even cover trucking and they won't take short wood anymore. They only take tree length

Twig farmer · February 01, 2010, 07:19:00 PM

My landowners give me a shocked look when I tell them how much I can pay for softwood pulp...and the hardwood price is a joke to them too....but I have to make what i have to make or I can't do the job..and around here....pulp is quickly outgrowing any sawtimber we have....for every acre of good timber, there's 30 of garbage highgraded stuff....the actions of the old boys back in the 60s and 70s (and 80s and 90s!!) is comming back to haunt us here...very few of us small time guys can step into a chipper, and the trouble it will bring...
Like my friend said: "If I had a million dollars to invest in equipment to go logging....WHY in hell would I go logging?"...

Maine372 · February 01, 2010, 08:26:36 PM

logging on a small scale you make your money squeezing every cent out of every stick. some tractor loggers around here have one ton dumps so they make all the money off the firewood. and they can haul small amounts if logs to speciality markets. lets say you have a stand of pine, but theres some birch in the thin spots, and a gully around the brook with some oak in it. you can take the few hardwood logs you cut each week to a bandsaw mill owner, or specialty mill. it could make you some extra money. it beats having the birch sit on the landing and spoil waiting for the oak to make a whole truck load.

i cut my wood for the highest possible dollar. ive sent hardwood pallet stock down to a 6inch top because the landowner wanted the all the hardwood pulp left for firewood. normally i wouldnt send it that small, but i wasnt gettin paid if it was firewood, even though i still had to yard it. the truckers looked at me a little sideways when they were loading 8foot long and 6inch top 'logs.'

'pulpwood loggers' make thier money on volume. trust me, tractor logging doesnt equal volume. its specialty markets. small woodlots, house lots, horse pastures.

and go farmi, you wont regret it.

thecfarm · February 02, 2010, 06:58:47 AM

Yes,I meant both hardwood and softwood.You really have to have a way to get rid of any wood that is in your area.You may need to cut 2-3 trees to cut the one you want.Or run the risk of barking them up or knocking all the limbs off one side or knocking it over and just leave it,which is not good at all.When I was doing it,I use to sell to one log yard.They took anything.Yes,I might not of made top dollar on all species,but cheaper than running all over with a couple 1000 of logs trying to get more money,than having to pay trucking cost.All sawmills,yards want the logs fresh,not sitting around for a month.Some guy tried to tell me to get your own small truck and make the delivery yourself.My argument was,who will be cutting the wood when I'm gone off trying to chase down another 100-200 more per thousand for 1000ft of logs, well I'm gone for 2-3 hours.Yes,they may say they pay $100 more per 1000,but they are harder on scale than the place that takes everything.Than I'm down to only $50 more now.It's a hard call.Than there is the up keep of it.I do not have the license for truck,all the cost of taxes that go with it too.Now hauling split firewood is different or 10 cord or 5000 at a time is different.
Winches,really buy what ever is close for you for a dealer.I have a Norse,but they all do the same thing.I don't think there are any bad,cheaply made 3 pt winches out there.I think there are less than 10 companies that make them and they are all good ones.No chinese knock off on 3 pt winches,YET.
By the way,you did not mention what kind of tractor you have,size,hp,loader?

moonhill · February 02, 2010, 08:00:55 AM

thecfarm, I appreciate the input on the winches. I guess it would come down to new vs used and cost, quality not necessarily a big factor.

I am cutting my softwood pulp into building material, rafter stock for timber framing. Small scale for sure. The last time I sold 4' pulp they were picky, no limbs or rot allowed, 4" tops, the buyer said I had a good load. After I take a rafter out of the tree I am not left with much for pulp maybe a 8' stick which I saw into 3x4 blocking for the lumber piles, dunnage.

Tim

arborman · February 03, 2010, 08:32:21 AM

Quote from: thecfarm on February 02, 2010, 06:58:47 AM
Yes,I meant both hardwood and softwood.You really have to have a way to get rid of any wood that is in your area.You may need to cut 2-3 trees to cut the one you want.Or run the risk of barking them up or knocking all the limbs off one side or knocking it over and just leave it,which is not good at all.When I was doing it,I use to sell to one log yard.They took anything.Yes,I might not of made top dollar on all species,but cheaper than running all over with a couple 1000 of logs trying to get more money,than having to pay trucking cost.All sawmills,yards want the logs fresh,not sitting around for a month.Some guy tried to tell me to get your own small truck and make the delivery yourself.My argument was,who will be cutting the wood when I'm gone off trying to chase down another 100-200 more per thousand for 1000ft of logs, well I'm gone for 2-3 hours.Yes,they may say they pay $100 more per 1000,but they are harder on scale than the place that takes everything.Than I'm down to only $50 more now.It's a hard call.Than there is the up keep of it.I do not have the license for truck,all the cost of taxes that go with it too.Now hauling split firewood is different or 10 cord or 5000 at a time is different.
Winches,really buy what ever is close for you for a dealer.I have a Norse,but they all do the same thing.I don't think there are any bad,cheaply made 3 pt winches out there.I think there are less than 10 companies that make them and they are all good ones.No chinese knock off on 3 pt winches,YET.
By the way,you did not mention what kind of tractor you have,size,hp,loader?

I have aJD 5205 (50hp) with a loader ,Thank You.

Maine372 · February 03, 2010, 10:04:19 PM

oh come on tim, i know which mill youre talking about and you just have to have the right guy load the wood. ;-) it does take awhile to save up 10cd of 4ft spruce when you can take logs down to a 6inch top.

back to the topic at hand. pulpwood isnt where the money is. an article in the northern logger quoted somone as saying "pulpwood was round, had two ends, and no one cared where it come from" thats not quite the case anymore, but almost. pulp is a commodity, a by-product. tractor logging is viable, but you have to either chase the small lots with gravy wood, or sell it as a service (stand improvement, houselot and horsepasture clearing, etc)