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Want log arch - can't weld

Started by Draco, September 25, 2012, 04:35:31 PM

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Draco

I actually need a couple of them.  A small hand sized arch and a large one for hooking up to the truck.  Should I just hire the job out, or could I use prefabricated steel?  It would be easy to build something with galvanized plumbing pieces, but that would get heavy quickly.  It looks like I would just need a couple of elbows and some odds and ends for tubular steel.  Most of my work will be in sand/sandy loam (very soft), so I'll need oversized tires.  I considered buying a small arch, but the tires would sink as soon as I lifted a log.  If it can/has been done, what gauge steel can I get away with for each unit?  I'd lean toward over building on the large arch, but would want the small one to be light enough to manage easily.

Or, should I buy a welder and learn how to weld? ???

thechknhwk

Here are some pics of my arch.  Only problem so far is that 1" slide pipe bent a bit, so needs to be straightened and then we're gonna weld another one in underneath it to strengthen it up.  My wheels probably would not work in sand either...

EDIT:  I cannot link to my website.  PM me or email me and I will send you the info.

Hilltop366

Could drill and bolt parts together, using square or rectangular tubing might be better than round for bolting might still need some welding done.

I wonder if a walking beam and tandem wheels would help with floatation on soft ground?

You also could contact Logrite and see if they could accommodate your needs, not sure if the do custom work but it would not hurt to ask.

Jeff

I use my arch on my property all the time. Hydric soils with the water table inches below the ground. If the soil is too soft for a logrite arch, it's probably too soft to walk on and too soft to drive an atv on as well.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Fla._Deadheader

 Side strain on pipe threads is VERY weak. It will break and cause more damage, especially if weakened in the rough, then on the roadway.

I build a couple of log loaders on my trailers, and welded the corners, then welded in braces. Never tried to break.

Please don't use threads on a strained area.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

thenorthman

guy can pick up a wire feed welder for a couple hundred bucks sometimes less,
20' stick 2" of square tubing is about $100. tires and wheels can be a little spendy but if you go with a standard 15" or 16" wheel you can easily run up to a 44" tire if you got enough money (or just find some old utility trailer and repurpose it).

If your just moving fire wood or small dia logs you shouldn't need to much flotation but go for as tall and wide a tire as you can,

Welding is rather easy once you get the basics down and wire feed is childs play
If you  buy a new welder it will come with a book and maybe even a dvd, or get someone to teach you the basics in person, then before you go and build something structural that needs to stay together spend a weekend making art and welding scraps together to get the hang of it.

Allways wear a mask (those idiots on TV that look away get paid really well to suffer flash burn and yes it sucks, allot, no really you'll want to claw your eyes out its that bad)

The only way to get really good at welding is to burn massive amounts of rod/wire, the best welders I know are all very old dudes that started when arc welding was knew technology.  But for us Gypos we can fake it well enough to make it work...
well that didn't work

thenorthman

If welding is absolutely out of the question then go with bolts, cast plumbing pipe and fittings are brittle they don't like to flex, not to mention the twisting force that will loosen the joints up, but if you have too than taking a few pieces of strap steel say 1/4" thick and drilling two holes on each side that needs joined and sandwiching the them together so plate, tubing, plate held together with 4 1/2" or 5/8" grade 5 or grade 8 bolts would hold relatively well (think rail road track) corners could get fun but they make corner pieces about that size you can buy at the bigger hardware stores, use lock washers too

Grade 5 is cheaper then grade 8 but not as hard of steel, when in doubt use bigger bolts than you think you need... say 1/2 grd 8s or 5/8 grd 5s (honestly they are probably both overkill)
well that didn't work

r.man

You need a friend who can weld. The other option would be to hire out the welding and you prefab the pieces. Most of the work on something like that is cutting and fitting. Some places that sell steel are very good about cutting to length without being overly costly. You need to know exact lengths, and have everything written down clearly. One shop near me doesn't charge for the cutting but you need to check in advance. Some charge five dollars per cut so I am assuming that they don't want to cut anything. I would gladly be your welding friend but I am too far away from you. I have been meaning to build an arch and it would be handy to practice on yours. Too bad.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

r.man

A day of double posts. For cost savings on something like an arch you can't beat buying an old boat trailer if you can get one that used plain steel. Lots of steel, axles, wheels, a ball hitch and a winch very often for the price of about half the steel or the two wheels.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

wdncno

Get a welder!  You will learn with a bit of advice and lots apractice, AND you will wonder why it took you so long, and how you ever managed without it.

justallan1

I'd say buy a welder. The mig welders are about the easiest things to learn to use and are pretty affordable. I've got to where I use mine for just about everything anymore. Plus then you will have it when you need it rather than looking for a friend that can weld or hauling whatever project to town to get fixed.

Autocar

Never say can't, try a few times and before you know it your learn how to weld. My first I welded up a six by ten foot pipe panels to build a dog kennel. I was so proud of it I got the first panel up in my truck and it banged around a bit and it fell apart on a few corners  :D. So I took it back in the shop and gave it another try, your figure it out just never say can't   ;)
Bill

maple flats

Look at Logrite Arches. Many sizes to chose from. Well designed and they help support this forum.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Glenn

well rman,  I live near you -  build me an arch !!!  :)

shinnlinger

If you can run a glue gun you can mig weld.   
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

thecfarm

Before moving here I had one of those smaller migs,ran on 110. Worked ok for light stuff. If welding steady it would heat up and  shut itself down for 5-10 minutes,called duty time?? I forgot.A big bother.But than I moved here and started playing more and really needed something bigger. I went with 220 this time. Welds much better and has never shut off on me. I do use flux core wire,no gas. I started with no gas,because I would have to travel about 1 hour to get gas. Now most auto parts stores have an exchange for tanks.But all my welding is done out side,so the gas would not work too well. My metal is rusted,all stored outside and still welds good. A mig is very easy to weld with. Just make circles and go slow. More to it then that,but it is simple. May even be some night classes at your local high school to learn how to weld.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

You can buy an old single phase 240 volt  buzz box for next to nothing from Craigs list or find them at auctions .Get a small box of fast freeze rods like 1/8" 6011,6012 ,6013 and practice on some scrap steel .Keep at it long enough anybody who wants to can learn to weld .

It's an acquired skill and the only way to acquire is to do .Once you learn it will stick with you for life .You might get a tad rusty but it will come back to you real quick .

mad murdock

Like Al says, you can get an old buzz box for cheep! I paid 15 bucks for my old Lincoln, and it is in real good shape! If you learn to stick weld, you will have a lot more versatility, as there are soo many different rods you can get to weld non typical stuff, like cast iron, stainless, or high carbon steels.  MIG allows for some of these, but is not as versatile. Though I will MIG is very easy to learn compared to other methods. As others have said, welding once learned will be a skill you can draw on again and again. Well worth the effort, kind of like learning how to slice up a log into boards.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

gjgauthier

I bit the bullet right from the start and bought one instead of building one on my own. I'm glad I did it that way. I got the Logrite fetching arch to use behind my ATV in our woods. I love it. It's lightweight and very robust. I would have screwed around a long time building my own and I don't think it would have been engineered as well.

Every guy should still have a welder though. A great site to learn or tune up your welding skills is www.weldingtipsandtricks.com.
Timberking 2000, Logrite fetching arch. Woodmax chipper, Husqvarna 445, Stihl 041, Ford 335 tractor

Jeff

I see Draco is actually from Michigan. It is to bad he has not remained active since he is so close to the pigroast, since he would be very interested in the Pig roast door prizes, specifically one from Logrite this year.  Just sayin... ;)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

36 coupe

Quote from: Draco on September 25, 2012, 04:35:31 PM
I actually need a couple of them.  A small hand sized arch and a large one for hooking up to the truck.  Should I just hire the job out, or could I use prefabricated steel?  It would be easy to build something with galvanized plumbing pieces, but that would get heavy quickly.  It looks like I would just need a couple of elbows and some odds and ends for tubular steel.  Most of my work will be in sand/sandy loam (very soft), so I'll need oversized tires.  I considered buying a small arch, but the tires would sink as soon as I lifted a log.  If it can/has been done, what gauge steel can I get away with for each unit?  I'd lean toward over building on the large arch, but would want the small one to be light enough to manage easily.
You need more than a welder.A 4x6 power hack saw and a drill press and many hand tools will be needed.My log arch cost 200 bucks for new steel, spindles and hubs.I had The wheels and tires and winch on hand.Plus Ive been welding since the mid 50s.Ive done some mig welding, it aint easy.
Or, should I buy a welder and learn how to weld? ???

gimpy

Anyone got any plans for a log arch or know a source for them. I'd like to build/weld my own but need some plans.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help.
Gimpy old man
Lucky to have a great wife
John Deere 210LE tractor w/Gannon Box

21incher

I just built one ( there is a thread on the entire build in the sawmill section) and it required quite a bit of welding so if you do not have that capability you may want to farm that part out. The design, materials thicknesses, axles, and tires will depend on the size logs you will be moving. I designed mine for a 24" x 12 foot log max with a interchangeable tongue so I can put a stubby one on for maneuverability in tight spaces in the woods behind my compact tractor, and I can use a long tongue for stability on the road behind my truck. Remember for use on the road you must have good tie down points and all components must be properly sized for the load. I would have to say learning to weld is a very usefull skill for the home hobbyist. I think for a small hand arch you can't beat the Logrite. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

gimpy

Dad gum it there 21. That is the fanciest and most stout log arch I ever saw. I just need a simple one for my property. The biggest log I might drag would be about 24 inch round by 20 ft long and that wouldn't need to go on the road. I was hoping for more a far simpler one. But I'd hire you to design and build any heavy duty stuff I might need. Nice work and design.
Gimpy old man
Lucky to have a great wife
John Deere 210LE tractor w/Gannon Box

21incher

A 24 inch x 20 ft oak log will be over 4k lbs so you will need something that can safely handle the weight, and remember on a side hill or getting stuck in a rut much of that weight will shift to the downhill axle (depending on the center of gravity ) so it is better go a little stouter with the design as it usually only adds a minimal material cost.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

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