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Small Scale Logging

Started by glgdiggs, June 23, 2008, 10:40:10 AM

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glgdiggs

Has anyone used fwd utility tractors for a small scale logging operation? If so what attachments, safety equipment, ideas, expriences, and advice could you share with a novice? I have 3 tractors, chainsaws, loader & backhoe attachments, and a 60 acre woodlot which needs thinning, and some selective harvesting at this time.

pineywoods

That's my style of logging. I use a 2-wheel drive kubota M4700 with a home-made hydraulic winch on the 3-pt and a good set of tongs behind that. Front end loader with  set of forks instead of bucket. Log transport is a 16 ft flat bed trailer which I usually tow behind the tractor.
See my pic gallery...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Maineloggerkid

That is my set up as well. I cut by hand and I use a fransgard v4000 behind my tractor. IT works well, and it is good on fuel. I hired a cutter on, and we can cut a truck load of wood in about 8-9 hours.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

zackman1801

when me and my uncle were cutting the last bit of firewood out of the woods behind his fathers house, we were using a Kabota tractor in the 45hp range, had a farm winch, and a bucket, we would cut em, haul em, and then stack the logs on the landing, we got a full pulp truck load (around 9 cords) in about 3 days, working 1 day a weekend for about 3 weeks in a row, and only about 3-5hrs at a time because it was around 90 degrees all day. some days we couldent work because his fathers house is inside a flood zone and the water would be too high to get into the logs.
"Improvise, Adapt, OVERCOME!"
Husky 365sp 20" bar

beenthere

Quote from: glgdiggs on June 23, 2008, 10:40:10 AM
Has anyone used fwd utility tractors for a small scale logging operation? If so what attachments, safety equipment, ideas, expriences, and advice could you share with a novice? ...........

Welcome to the forum.
Many of us have utility tractors for logging, with a wide variety of attachments and methods. The usual safety precautions...ROPS, good footing, aware of dangers of rolling/tipping over, staying within the limits of the tractor and operator, and the list of precautions is endless.

They work very well in the woods, depending on the terrain and the size of the logs to be harvested and milled.  One can estimate the weight of logs by going into the Forum Extras and the tool box. Having a good idea of the weight and the limits of the equipment will be helpful in making your logging plans.

Some more information, and pics, would be helpful.
A search of the past posts which contain volumes of interesting reading may be of interest to you as well.

Hang around. It will be fun.  :) :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

glgdiggs,welcome to the forum.I have a 40hp 4wd Ford with a Norse 3 pth.I would get a 3 pth winch or build one.They make things so easy.Have to realize your limits with a tractor in the woods.Haul out only what the tractor will handle for the terrain.I have some hard areas on my land.Just don't take so much.In these areas I haul out what I can and when the hauling gets better,I drop it and head back for more.Than when I have what I feel is enough,off I go to the yard.I keep all my twitch trails free of brush.Yes,it takes time,but you cannot run a tractor through the brush too much unless you shield the under carrage.I cut what ever brush up small that I don't want.This way I can go through it in a couple years and it will just break up by than.Look ahead of you,don't get in the habit of looking behind you for any lenght of time.That front end could be coming up in the air and you would not even know it.I go slow on the way out and not much faster on the way in.Plan your trails out with a lot of care.Straight is better,make corners wide when you have too.There are alot of tricks to roll the logs so the limbs are on top.Or hook the log to anorther tree to get it away from a hard spot.I haul rocks into wet holes and any sharp knools I have.It's my wood lot and I will use these trails for years.
I suppose you have cut down trees before??
Loaded tires or weights help out too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Dave Shepard

I use my Kubota L48 and a Farmi winch. I like it for pulling out selected trees for projects because it is very agile in the woods, but will still pull a good sized log.

Here it is with a couple of tree length oak logs. They are about 45 feet long, and the big one is over 20" at the butt.




Dave
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Ed

I use my 2120 New Holland tractor with a homeade boom and logging tongs.
Works pretty good.

Ed


Woodhog

Most important thing on your tractor you are going to take in the woods is protection for the machine from brush, rocks etc.

It should have a belly pan installed of quite thick steel, a radiator protective grill, and the tire values should be protected with pipe and pipe covers.

If you dont it will only be a matter of time before you wreck something down low on the machine.

You should have a canopy or something over your head for when you bump into a tree and the top falls off and comes down on the machine.

Here is an example of how to gear it up:

http://www.payeur.com/En/products/specforestier.htm

It has to be 4WD.  Lots of ground clearance.

Ice chains in the winter or if you have very rocky ground that will soon cut up your tires.

Some kind of box to carry your saw, lunch, jack and junk in.

If you are in a cold climate and you leave it in the woods it should be one that starts easy or put synthetic oil like 5W40 in it.

Cover with a tarp at night in the winter if you have snow in your area.

Put lots of insurance on it for vandals, theft etc if you leave it in the woods off your own property.

Carry a fire extinquisher in the dry season.

For your selective thinning a winch is a good investment, around here they are for sale all over the  place quite cheap.

You can pull one tree from a clump and not disturb the rest, get a snatch block with it and you can do a lot of fancy things with the winch.

jesse

Quote from: Woodhog on June 24, 2008, 12:53:20 PM

You should have a canopy or something over your head for when you bump into a tree and the top falls off and comes down on the machine.


i would suggest the canopy also the dead limb falling out of the top of the tree will get your attention quickly when it hits the steel roof  when you are not expecting  :o

glgdiggs

Thanks for the replies, I've settled on the equipment to purchase, Farmi winch, trailer & loader, & Mobile Dimension 128 sawmill. Looks like close to $60k. The new question is will the market allow a return on investment. I have according to the foresters 12,000 to 15,000 tons of thinning wood leaving 1.2 million bf of pine in uneven age management. The thinned stock consists of undersirable pines ie crooked, maximum economic growth (loblolly at 70 to 80 years), light stunted with poor crowns, etc. and hardwoods (sweet gum, red, white and willow oak, and maple). If the wood is sold for pulp stumpage is $1.00/ton. It seems to me that any value added operations would more than pay for themselves, but these are not normal times. So if it were you, would you pull the trigger on the purchase?

dirtmod454

I am also looking into getting a 4wd tractor that would mainly be used for cutting and moving wood. I constantly debate the size of machine i will need. The larger the machine the harder it is to manueover in the woods....incresed fuel consumption....but ultimatley more power. A smaller tractor will get around the woods easier....use less fuel...but lack much needed hp. Just wondering what some of you tractor loggers recommend in terms of size and horsepower needed for a woods tractor. I am currently looking at a john deere 2950 which puts out about 85 horsepower. Is this too big?

All opinions appreciated.
Thanks!!!

fishpharmer

I don't have alot of small scale logging experience, yet enough to know that I don't want a tractor that is too small.  Although, my woods are mostly hills and hollows.  The extra weight and power of a larger tractor are nice. I have a 4020 JD, similar in size to 2950.  Mines not 4wd but does a good job.  I have used my smaller tractors but am not real comfortable with moving 24 inch plus logs with them. 
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

ahlkey

I have a 45 HP Same tractor that I use for logging but I wish it was larger.  It is a 4 wd model and I consider my larger 2 wd tractor more difficult to use in the woods given my narrow trails, hilly terrain and weather.  I use rear chains when the ice hits and have fluid in the rear tires with a front loader that I load when necesary.  I use a Farmi winch with snatchblocks and cables.  I normally stick to the trails and have over 2 miles of them on my 200 acres of hardwoods.   I have a log loader and a 20,000 lb trailer to transport to the landing.  With the winch and cable extensions I can reach over 225 ft and a skidding sled helps move logs over rocks and stumps.  The key of course is to not rush things or do more than the equipment is capable of handling and remember safety is number one.  

As far as a payback in my opinion it will be difficult for you to justify it based only on a $60K purchase upfront and the return from the logs.  Remember it is is always more expensive then you think when you factor in operational expenses, repairs, and other purchases.  Likewise, what you get for your logs will not always be what you hoped.  I would suggest you buy used if you are just starting out and today you can pick up excellent equipment at some great prices.


 

glgdiggs

I have 2 Landtrac 53hp 4wd tractors one for the winch the other for the forwarding trailer. My thoughts were to process the trees into lumber and firewood, build 2 solar kilns and possibly a planer/moulder. Wood has to be worth more than a$1.00/ton.

Maineloggerkid

I lot of it has more to do with the weight than the power. You can move a lot of wood with low hp, but you need to match the weight of the logs, or they will out muscle you all day long.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

woodmills1

I am on my second Kioti forester from Payeur and they have a very good set up for traactor woods work.  I traided my lk3054 to them for a 2007 dk40se.  I am one happy camper.




James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

sjfarkas

It all depends on they type of terrain.  I've done most of my small clearing operations with a bobcat track machine and a rootgrapple.  It would be a little tough for long hauls, but much easier than a tractor if there is any type of terrain.  I have used an old kabota 4150 4wd with a homemade 25' long log trailer.  It has a tough time moving fast with 2 decent size 33' ers, but it is still easier on long hauls accross property than trucking them with the bobcat.  If I could only buy one I would choose a bobcat T-300 or T-320.
Always try it twice, the first time could've been a fluke.

cheyenne

Don't let your zest over-run your common sence. Four w/d is a must. If it don't feel right don't it.....Cheyenne
Home of the white buffalo

Ed_K

 Weight, I run a 60hp landini at 5500 lbs on very hilly terrain. The 5860 is doing a good job but a few times I've wished it weighted more. I run a tajfun 9k winch w/a reese hitch to pull a majco flex 380 forwarding trailer, going down hill with 300bf is enough. more weight  ;) .
Ed K

Maineloggerkid

Ya, my Deere does alright, but sometimes you can really feel the logs swaying around back there.
JD 540D cable skidder, and 2 huskies- just right.   

Loggers- Saving the world from the wrath of trees!

SwampDonkey

I've always looked at those small tracked forwarders over the years. But unless your going commercial to work several woodlots, it's a tough purchase. Even when prices where higher it would not pay to buy an $80,000 machine for $10,000 of wood from thinnings from my lot. Sure is hard to part with the cash when the technology is nothing new on those machines, seems $30,000 would be lots. Oh well, the forest is still young and my cutting is 25 years away. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jwoods

I've used to use our utility and 70 hp row-crop tractors for skidding.  They work fine, but they're considerably dangerous -and cold in the winter.  I have switched to a 4wd Chevy 1/2 ton, 1984 model .  I think with a little bit of ingenuity a nice cable winch could be mounted and have more of a "wrecker" look in order to get the butt end of the log up off of the ground.

 

Ironwood

interesting thread, this may be the wave of the future, smaller scale that is.


Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Banjo picker

I use an M7040 Kubota with a FIL.  Its rated at 70 hp.  I have never had a problem going anywhere in the woods, but you do have to be caefull.   ;D  I use a home made forwarder that Bobby and I built.  mainly to get tie logs out of the woods with.  I use the Kubota to move the slabs and the ties also.  I don't think I am a logger, if i was I would get a skider--which will go through the woods better, but I get by.  We did make a counter weight to use aroud the mill as the fel would pick up more that the rear wheels could stand.  Abut 1800 lbs of concrete stoped that.  Tim
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

shinnlinger

I have a 34 horse 4x4 and it works well for me, but making $ isn't my concern, as I use it to  collect timbers and firewood for myself. I see no reason why your two tractors can't get it done if your willing to exercise a little patience.  I saw a nice "powered trailer" post on here a while back that showed a few different options of using the PTO to drive an axle on a woods trailer if you envision going through alot of muck.

What I will question is the 60 large you want to spend.  These days, you can find some screaming deals on some serious stuff.  It seems many individuals are holding on to stuff if they can because they know they won't get much for it, so you may not find an awesome deal on a big woodmizer, but commercial stuff (probably from bank repos) can be had for quite cheap.  I was looking at Northern Forester the other day and for 10-15 grand you can have yourself a nice cable skidder or even a forwarder.  Something you 60 acres wont wear out.
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

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