iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

My mill is sick

Started by WV Sawmiller, April 24, 2019, 09:04:37 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

WV Sawmiller

   Yeah, but you know how hard it is getting money from a banker. After 38 years at it he may be beyond hope.

   Well, the saga continues today. I took a couple of 8' maple logs to cut into 4/4 stock and a 3' section to make some 8/4 LE planks and my mill would not start. Sputtered once then nothing. I was afraid I had flooded it so let it rest an hour then went back and no luck. I grabbed a nearby ladder, removed the filter cover, took out the air filter and poured gas directly into the carb. When I choked it it would crank and idle but ever time I'd open the choke it would die and also when I gave it fuel it would die. I did that several times with the same results. This is the first time I have ever had a problem with it cranking or running. I assume it is an adjustment to the fuel air system but I don't know how to fix it. I will try to get my neighbor who works on small engines to come take a look at it. My mower would not start last week and it has a 23 hp Kohler engine. He looked and pushed the vacuum hose back on tight on and it runs fine. He did suggest I order a new hose as he said it will get worse and I have one waiting at the dealer. Hopefully he can diagnose and fix the problem. It cranked and ran great yesterday so I am thinking it is something minor. We will see.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Southside

Can you disconnect the fuel line after the fuel filter and give the tank a squeeze to make sure you are getting fuel to that point?  Then check after the engine mounted pump to make sure fuel is getting that far too?  The other day the little O ring in the quick connect on my fuel tank on the 35 let go and I could not get fuel to the engine, eventually found it was that $0.01 O ring after 20 minutes.  

Just a note, don't use a propane torch or anything like for light while you are checking for fuel flow.   :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

WV Sawmiller

SS,

   I will try giving the fuel tank a squeeze test in the morning and see if I see the fuel to that point. I will be sure not to use my propane torch for a light source too. I don't smoke and won't have others around smoking during such testing either. I am confident the fix will fast, easy and cheap. Finding the problem may not be.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Southside

I should clarify that if you are getting fuel to the pump you need to crank the engine to check the output side of the pump. The Charmin test is only good to the pump inlet. It is possible that the time spent on the engine side dislodged junk in the fuel filter and it's now pluged up or the carb bowl  is gunked up if the junk left the filter. 

I have taken the carb apart on my welder which has the same engine on it when the ethanol sat too long and it was not a horrible job to clean it. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Stephen1

I'm glad your baby is back making Lumber. W all have issues, problems and in my words EDITED BY ADMIN but nothing better than solving them and moving forward.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

SawyerTed

@Southside has pointed to a likely issue - fuel supply/fuel pump.

Last summer I got an edger on loan from a guy (I still have it). It has a 23 hp Kohler and had a similar problem. Turned out the fuel pump needed help getting primed.  Once it gets fuel it runs fine.  It has a portable tank so I used an outboard fuel line with a primer bulb to get the prime.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

WV Sawmiller

SS & Ted,

   I am still convinced it is a fuel/air problem but have pinpointed it yet. I completely filled the tank (it already had about 4 gallons so should not have been anything there) and pulled the fuel hose off at the filter on the engine side and I had a very steady supply of gas coming out. I tried to crank and no luck, removed the air filter cover and filter and choked it. Had to choke it completely shut and it would crank, I could engage the blade (No blade on) to rev up the engine and it kept running but as soon as I open the choke back up it dies. Did this several times. My small engine repair neighbor has not been home when I checked so far today. Any other suggestions?
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Southside

You are not getting enough fuel, which is why it runs on choke. Pull the fuel line from the carb side of the fuel pump and check the flow there while cranking the engine. If that is a strong flow then next is the carb bowl. Need to remove it and check for trash in the bowl and jets feeding the carb.

It's also possible the float in the bowl is stuck and not letting fuel in, removing the bowl and freeing the float would fix that. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Peter Drouin

One reply 46 the gas tank looks all pucked up is the vent working??
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

richhiway

Running with the choke on means you are starving for fuel. If you take the line off the carb and crank the engine while holding it in a can you should get a good flow of fuel. Don't hold it near the plug wire a stray spark can make a little gas exciting! If that works then the carb is plugged up. You probably worked some gunk loose by knocking it around. 

Just remove the bowl and clean it, then spray some carb cleaner up the jet, it will shoot through into the venturi if it's not plugged.

Then move the float gently up and down and make sure the needle valve is moving with it. you can also spray some carb cleaner through the fuel intake when the bowl is hanging down to make sure it's clear.

Not much to a small engine carb. put the bowl back on and give it a try. watch the eyes with the card spray it goes everywhere except where you aim it.

I had clean the carb on my generator he other day it was doing the same thing took about ten minutes.
Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

WV Sawmiller

  Thanks for the suggestions. My neighbor is supposed to come look at it tomorrow afternoon. He suggested I change plugs since it laid on its side overnight and he said could have a fouled plug. That's an easy check.

I pulled the fuel line off after the fuel pump (I gather that is it) and when I turn the key it pumps fuel steadily so it is getting that far.

Peter,

 I don't know what vent you are suggesting to check. I don't see one on  my tank like ones I have on my outboard motor fuel tanks. I did leave the cap on loose to make sure no vacuum there but no change. It still cranks with the choke out and runs till you push the choke in.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

AK Newbie

WV good luck with the latest hiccup, like you said it will likely be something very simple...  Eagle River is 10 miles north of Anchorage, it's actually a part of the Municipality.  If you ever get up here to visit your BIL get ahold of me and we'll go catch some fish!  This little guy was from our girls only trip last summer.  ;D

 
LT28, Logosol M7, Husky 385XP, Stihl MS 250, Echo

Chuck White

Real nice Halibut, biggest I ever caught was 82#, mostly caught Chicken Halibut!

Either way, it's the best, and congratulations to the girls!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

WV Sawmiller

AK,

   Thanks for the invite and the picture. Is that what people call a barn door or such? I went with my BIL the last time we were there but only caught one silver and a few small rockfish and a skate or two. We sure didn't get any like that. My BIL's daughter lives in Wasilla - I could not remember the name of her city the last time I wrote.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Jim_Rogers

Ok, so we were discussing how the head could fall off your mill, yesterday at the Northern Project, and we weren't sure if it fell off one end or the other or over the side.
Can you solve that discussion for us?
My mill has stops on both end to prevent the head from sliding off either end. Does your mill have them?
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

WV Sawmiller

@Jim_Rogers

I am glad I could provide thought provoking discussions to your get-together even though I could not be there in person. It looks like you guys had a good time and I'm happy for you.

IRT your questions my mill does have the stops on each end to prevent the head from running off the rails. That was not the problem. The problem is the head is held on the rails with an upper and lower bracket that the rollers and cam follower on top ride on (for the 2 rollers) or against (for the cam follower) and another bracket on the bottom with a cam follower bearing to ride against. Think of these two brackets like a wood clamp you use in the shop. My bottom cam follower/bearing seized and would stop rolling which set the head to shaking violently as it skipped along the rail. To remove the bottom cam follower I first lowered the head on to a 4' long 6X6 stood upright to take the weight off the bearings. Then I went to loosen the cam follower/bearing which has a held on with a nut. I don't remember shaft size but the nut uses 15/16" end wrench. When you turn the nut the shaft on the bearing spins too. The end of the bearing shaft is slotted to fit a 5/16" allen/hex head wrench but when installed, there is no space between the bottom rail and the top of the cam follower to put your wrench so I loosened the bottom bracket and rotated it down an inch or so till it tilted the cam follower shaft enough I could get the hex wrench in, remove the nut and cam follower then I replaced with a new cam follower and tightened it. In the process the bracket shifted slightly so the holes in the bracket did not line up with the holes in the mast any more so I attempted to raise the head slightly to put pressure back on the bracket to line up the bolt holes. Once the weight was off the 6X6 the head rolled forward then just fell forward as the head was top heavy that high up and with bolts out of the bracket, there was nothing on the bottom to hold the head against the bottom rail so it fell. Think of the bottom jaw on your wood clamp missing - whats going to hold it in place? Looking back it should have been obvious this could happen so first I should not have had the head raised that high (but that was the height of the 6X6 I had handy) and the head should have been choked and secured to something stout above so it could not fall. It was actually very dangerous as the head unit may weigh 700-800 lbs of more. My little JD 750 with a small Bushhog brand 1646 model FEL would not lift it off the ground. I called a neighbor and he came the next morning with his big Kubota tractor and FEL and we choked around the top of the mast - there is no lift point provided and that was only spot we could find not to crush the motor or band wheel assemblies. It was off center but worked enough he could lift and rotate the head so the upper bracket fit on the rails then we rotated more till the bottom was flush against the bottom rail and we aligned and reinserted the bolts and both jaws of our clamp are now back in place. The head rolls on the top rollers and cam followers on top and bottom hold it right against the rail with enough space for the head to roll. After that it was just a matter of replacing a few damaged parts like the plastic faucet to my lube tank that broke and the plastic outer cover of the air filter unit on the motor and reattach and adjust the contact for the hydraulic power strip. This contact rides against the rail so it obviously jerked free in the fall and needed to be reinstalled and adjusted. After that it was just a matter of realigning the head tilt and blade guide rollers and such. Mine is a single mast mill. Your's may be different if a different model.

A little lengthy reply and probably should be over in the health and safety or such to keep someone else from doing the same thing. If that doesn't answer any specific question anyone has let me know and I'll answer as best I can. It was not the smartest thing I have done in my life, unfortunately it is not the dumbest either and I have the scars to prove it. If reading this helps prevent someone else doing the same thing then this has been time well spent and I will survive the embarrassment.

All,

Now back to my motor not starting/running. I bought new plugs today on advice from a neighbor who works on a lot of small engines. He thought the plugs might have gotten fouled when the head was on the ground overnight and they did look pretty sooted up. I removed them and turned the key and spun the starter to clear any debris present. I put the new plugs in and bumped the starter and got one grunt then absolutely nothing. My mechanic neighbor had just arrived. I took the plugs out but still nothing when I turned the key. He suggested a blown fuse so we started looking for a fuse box.


 I spotted this connection on the right side of the motor facing from front to rear. It was not as far open as I display on the picture but was very loose.


 I plugged it in tightly and my mill cranks and runs as it is supposed to. Apparently during the recent rough handling this connection (May be some sort of kill switch?) loosened enough it did not make a good connection but allowed some power. This apparently was all that was wrong.


 I sawed the short piece of maple on the mill into 4 LE 8/4 slabs about 3' long and 6-10 inches wide then I sawed the 8' split maple log on the arms into 6 - 1X8 boards and everything worked fine. Then the rain returned before I could cut the other log up.

Other than still needing to fine tune the adjustment on my power strip connection I think I am back in business.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Old Greenhorn

ANd life is GOOD again. I love that feeling! I hope you do too. Never made a comment here, but I have been reading along and had nothing valuable to add, so I just watched and felt badly for you. Glad you are off to the races now. Congrats! 8) 8) 8)
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

terrifictimbersllc

Same here. Didn't know what to say. Glad you're both ok and not much worse for the wear.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

WV Sawmiller

  Let's just say I now know more about some aspects of my mill than I ever wanted to know. Is has been both a humbling and an empowering experience. The weather cleared and I went back out and sawed the other maple log in the pictures above. In the process I discovered my bent guard that runs in front of the head (The aluminum one that popped out of the plastic fitting) was too low and hit the bunks on the bottom 4/4 board. Two whacks with a 3 lb hammer and it is back where it is supposed to be and that put that little chip deflector closer to the roller guide where it belonged too.


 Mostly 1X10 maple. I saw one with some wane that would make a clean 1X8X8 or a clean 1X10X6. The eternal question to edge them longer and narrower or shorter and wider. I left it wide and figure I can always rip it later if necessary. Lets see - a 1X8X8 is about 5.3 bf or a 1X10X6 is 5 bf so no big difference either way.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Peter Drouin

 8) 8) Good to go now.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

YellowHammer

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

samandothers

All the stars are back in alignment! 8) Well at least the connectors!

WV Sawmiller

   Still doing a little PT on my mill since our accident. Did an alignment and learned more about adjusting the head. The idler side was about 1/4" off and I got that right and spent way more time with the blade guide rollers than should have been necessary. The drive side outside adjustment screw is a bear to reach. Monkeyed with them several times up and down, in and out, etc. had to relevel the tilts several times but that got to be real fast process after enough practice. Then checked the rails and found one loose on the loader side. Quick and easy fix to adjust and tighten. All checked out at the correct level/height compared to the head. Checked drive belt tension as put new belt on about 10 hours ago. Tried to saw a 10" RO log and band surfed all over the place and got stuck in the log. Replaced a couple times checking to see if was a bad blade. Called WM and discussed and tech said tighten drive belt so I tightened (Too much) then loosened and looks about in line with specs in the manual. The blade would still rise as soon as entered the log. Was about to try adjusting the blade guides/rollers downward tension again when I noticed the arm going to the aluminum blade guard I'd straightened was touching the bottom of the bands under the idler side roller which explained black marks I was seeing I'd thought came from the belt. I adjusted downward half inch or so, replaced the blade and it cut fine. Turns out what I was doing was knocking the set off the bottom teeth on the band which caused it to cut upward when entered the log. Worked fine after that and I cut the small RO and a 4' piece I'd bucked earlier into 8/4 for benches or such. A whopping 53 bf day! May be a new record. When I got in I called WM and left a thank you message for 2 techs I'd talked to and an explanation. They probably never thought to ask if cerebral flatulence could be the cause. Oh well, I definitely understand a lot more about mill than I did a week ago. Final thing I adjusted was the pointer on the number scale- boy is that a joy to adjust. Get a cant good and square on the bed, just kiss the end with the spinning blade, measure the height of the cut then loosen the 2 phillips screws and move the pointer up or down to the height you just measured and tighten.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WV Sawmiller

   Did not get a chance to saw any today because of other conflicts in my schedule. I did pick up the replacement air filter cover from our local Kohler dealer. I also dropped him off a free sample - a 50 lb feed sack full of fresh cut sawdust and told him to try it as oil spill media. He seemed real happy to get it and said his mechanics love to spill oil while working on the mowers and such. Maybe I can develop a market for a current waste product.

   My son mentioned something that might have saved me so much grief here - an impact wrench. If I had just used my impact wrench to spin the nut off the lower cam follower I might never have had to loosen the lower bracket from the rail or hold the head of the cam follower shaft with a hex key/wrench to remove the nut. If the occasion arises again or if any of the rest of you get in the same boat that might be the simple solution.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Southside

From what I remember I don't think you can get the follower out of the bracket even if it was loose. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Thank You Sponsors!