Meadows 48 in mill

[Seaman]

Sat during the get-together I took Okra, Tee, and Pyro to see an old Meadows under a fallen down shed. It belonged to my Father in Law, who last sawed on it in 1982 or so, about the time I met his cute little girl, now my wife of 26 years this July 4th.
He passed away in an auto accident last spring, after telling me I could have the mill to move over to my place and fix up. I think the time has come to make a move on this project.

I went over today, jacked the roof up off the blade, and loosened the blade nut the old fashioned way, with a chisel and hammer. Evidently, that's the way it's always been done, cause there are no shoulders on the nut, just a lot of chisel marks. We're kinda simple like that around here, why buy a nut when you have a chisel?
The blade still won't come off, cause the head-blocks have jumped forward off the cog that drives them, and one is setting against the blade. I will have to dissemble the carriage which is half rotten, to move the head-blocks.
The husk frame looks good, it has been in the dry all this time, but I will have to re stock all else. I have enough steel to set it on I think, I don't have all the measurements yet.
It won't be a perfect build, just a working mill.

What I do know:
Mwadows mill with a 48 in blade
All parts are there, in one shape or 'tother
I have an aluminum block, three cyl Detroit to power her with. A 371 I guess? 351? not sure.

There are two locust logs on the deck, from the day he unhooked the tractor. I want to cut them with his mill, then make tables or something for my wife and mother in law.

I thought if I start a thread, I will be more likely to do this whole project.
Thanks for the motivation, more to follow.
Frank
 

[dgdrls]

Great story of family, sorry to learn of an auto accident impacting your family.
Look forward to seeing some pics and following the resurrection of another circle mill.

best
DGD

[Okrafarmer]

From what I saw of the mill, I think it is a very doable project. Getting it out of its tomb will be one of the hardest parts, though!

[dgdrls]

http://2-cycle.mtu-online.com/extras/engine-model-number-decoder

This site may help you decode that engine if it is a Detroit,

photos?

best, DGD

[Seaman]

DGD. Thanks. I will go get the #s of the engine soon so I can use this app.

[JohnM]

This sounds like a job for [insert Blue Creeper w/ cape smiley]!   ;) ;D

Great story, good luck, Seaman!

Waiting for the show to start.   

JM

[doghunter]

seaman,
if the Detroit is the one in the old franklin skidder it is definitely a 353 I looked at it with jimmy several years ago if you decide to start it call me first and i'll tell you how to make sure it doesn't run away when it starts detroits that have sat for a long time sometimes try to overspeed when they start
meadows mills are still in business and have all the parts for their older mills sorry I missed the get together we had been to south Dakota to visit in-laws and were enroute home on the first good luck with your project
                                                                                                                              doghunter

[ddcuning]

Frank(Seaman) noted that the wood was rotten in the carriage. Curious if anyone knows what kind of wood they used in both the Frick and Meadows mills? Frank, I am down the road a ways from you and nearing getting my Frick 00 restored and running. If I can saw any wood for you just let me know. I can usually scrounge up some trees for free and wouldn't charge for the sawing. I also have a full woodshop with a planer so I could square the stuff up for you after it dries. We have family in Old Fort so would be a good excuse to head your way.

Dave C

[SPD748]

Now, here's a topic that I can easily follow! An aluminum block Detroit is a rare find. As doghunter suggested, these engines can will runaway if the fuel rack sticks. For safety sake, have someone there who knows these engines before you attempt to start it.

Good luck on your journey and keep us posted!

-lee

[Ga. bow-man]

Sounds great Frank,

Tripp told me about the mill, and i've been hoping you would get it going. I will come with Tripp if he comes up
to help you get the Meadows and the Detroit running. It's been a long time seeing you and your family. I miss
the 4 wheeling at school bus, slick rock and good times at the camp ground.

Allen

[Seaman]

WOW,

Thanks for all the well wishes. With all the help offered here, I just need to pick a date that all can attend, and we should have her sawing before lunch! :D

Seriously, I might pick a move date and offer up lunch and a cold one at end of day.
Good to hear from Allen and Virgil !

Frank

[bandmiller2]

Frank, your starting on a long journey, your restoration need not look fancy but must be done right. First I would take many pictures of the mill setup now and measurements. Save the wood if you can for patterns, even for steel replacement. Good form to install new bits and shanks and have the saw checked and hammered. If you can find out who hammered his saw the smiths all keep records he should know the speed. Design plenty of space under the husk for sawdust removal. You likely  have a 53 series Detroit, wait for the guys to start it or pull the valve cover and be sure the rack is free no stuck injectors or governor linkages. If their like the 71 series they have an emergency stop door just outside the blower to cut off air, be sure its free,  best not used unless an emergency. Do a good foundation and align with precision and most important enjoy the trip  and learn as you go, safety with circular mills should be self evident. Good luck. Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

PS, Frank please leave the chisel back in the shop get a proper nut or at least use a pipe wrench you need to feel how tight you draw down the nut or you'll take the taper out of your collars. Beenthere will be right along with the online copy of Stan Lundstroms classic works its all you really need to know. Frank C.

[beenthere]

I'd better 'hop to'  ;D

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

[Seaman]

Bandmiller, I will get a new nut to tighten, trust me , this nut has seen the chisel too many times!
Pics of the mill as it sets, and of skidder. sorry, some of the pics are fuzzy.





 

Power unit in old Franklin

 



  

  

  

  

 

Shed over mill
 

   

 

 

 


 

[JohnM]

In the words of my Jewish in-laws, "OY!!"   ;);D :D  Good luck with it, Seaman.

[lyle niemi]

looks like ya got a very interested helper. I hope it all goes well for you

[york]

Frank,looks like the same mill that i had,sold it about 12 years ago-#1 standard,only mine had the deluxe set-works and had 48 in. blade also.....
albert

[Seaman]

York, I take from your post that I do not have deluxe set-works. What's the diff?
Frank

[SPD748]

Looks to be an excellent candidate for restoration. That engine would be a 3-53 for sure (with a touch of Virginia Creeper for accent smiley_jester). It's also setup for clockwise rotation (viewed from the crankshaft). Did it power the mill before? I think the 3's were setup for ~90 hp at ~2000 rpm. I can't wait to see this project underway!

-lee

[york]

Frank,the deluxe set works are wider and had more pawls..
albert

[Okrafarmer]

Looks to be an excellent candidate for restoration. That engine would be a 3-53 for sure (with a touch of Virginia Creeper for accent smiley_jester). It's also setup for clockwise rotation (viewed from the crankshaft). Did it power the mill before? I think the 3's were setup for ~90 hp at ~2000 rpm. I can't wait to see this project underway!

-lee

Clockwise rotation-- from which end? The output end? I thought most engines turned clockwise from the output end. Anyway, tractor PTO shafts do.

[Seaman]

The mill was PTO powered, a Ford 7600 I believe. The shaves and all are still lying on the ground.
Funny, the only thing missing is the dust chain. I bet it was on one of the pieces of equipment we scrapped.

The mill was last used to cut lumber to build the milking barn, bout 81 or so, the tractor was unhooked and driven away, never to return. That is why I would like to build the women something out of the last log that he didn't saw.
Tee is thinking of coming up later in the month, we will try to move it then, with LOTS of pictures and measurements. 

[SPD748]

Okra,

On a typical right hand mill, such as this mill and mine, a counter clockwise rotating engine (as viewed from the flywheel side of the crankshaft) is required if one plans on mounting the engine on the front side of the husk. I've seen several which had a clockwise engine mounted behind the track frame and ran a drive shaft underneath the frame. Two stroke Detroit Diesel engines can be setup to turn either way. That was one of the super neat things about the design.

* In the previous post, I should have clarified by saying the rotation as viewed from the flywheel side of the crankshaft.

Frank,

Let me know when you're planning on moving the mill. I'd be glad to come up and help out if needed.

-lee

[Alyeska Pete]

Quick tip to tell the difference between Detroit Diesel 53 and 71 Series. All 53 Series use Phillips Screws to hold down the valve covers.  All 71 Series use hand wheels to hold down the valve covers. No exceptions. Does not matter how many cylinders or  what configuration or arrangement.

[Seaman]

Thanks, Lee and Pete, good tip

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

I LIKE IT !! ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) keep us posted mate you can get info from Meadows Mills I have the dimentions here to I can send you for restocking it timber used was Select Grade Southern Yellow Pine ,the last timber frame standard #1 mill was built in 1986 as dad brought two timber frame mills in 86 and sold them to farmers after that they moved to only building Deluxe mills with steel frames

All in all my family has brought n sold 7 or 8 meadows mills plus edger's decks ect over the years and don't worry about it being a standard mill they will still cop a lot of abuse and saw a lot of timber as my uncles both ran two timber frame #1 std mills in the highlands of PNG for a couple of years each talking hardwood logs 4' through and 16' to 20' in  length which aint easy on any mill 

Regards Chris

[Seaman]

Lee, Tee plans to come up next Fri the 21st. We will pull the roof off, photo and sketch on graft paper, then start disassemble.
Would love to have you up, if you are not chasing bad guys. And food &beer around a campfire I'm sure.
Frank

Chris, I would love to see any literature about the mill, Thanks.
Frank

[Tee]

Looking forward to the weekend Frank. Need to get up there and check on Claude as well.

[Seaman]

I'll have her pack a small bag, just in case!

[Tee]

I'll have her pack a small bag, just in case!

Claude provably wouldn't travel well so Marielle would provably need to ride along to hold her.

-Forum note: Claude is a show-up dog and Marielle is Franks too cute, too young (for me unfortunately) daughter.

[Okrafarmer]

I'll have her pack a small bag, just in case!

Claude provably wouldn't travel well so Marielle would provably need to ride along to hold her.

-Forum note: Claude is a show-up dog and Marielle is Franks too cute, too young (for me unfortunately) daughter.

Eyes forward, Tee! Focus on sawmills.

[SPD748]

Ok guys... my Dad and I are all geared up to head northwest tomorrow and help get this circle mill project started! I'm sure there will be pictures and stories to follow. Wish us (and of course Frank) luck!

-lee

[JohnM]

Ok guys... my Dad and I are all geared up to head northwest tomorrow and help get this circle mill project started! I'm sure there will be pictures and stories to follow. Wish us (and of course Frank) luck!

-lee

Good luck!  We'll be watching.

[Seaman]

Got to get going before Lee and Tee get here! lot's to do.
Where else but FF do you find folks you never met TAKE VACATION to come sweat with you! What a group of people. THANKS ALL!

[SPD748]

I'm up... 

No really, I'm up this time. Dad just called and says he's standing on the porch waiting for a ride. Looks like I'd better get going 

-lee

[tjhammer]

     
       Well Frank looks like this is working up to a new mill gettogether looking forward to it maybe I will have a better ride so I can stay longer,every find okra's hat?

  tj

[SPD748]

Gentlemen...

What a day! We managed to get the Meadows disassembled and moved over to Frank's mill site without injury or broken parts! I'll let him tell the details of the story and hopefully share a few pictures. Suffice to say, it was a good day all around. The best part of the day (at least for me) was to spend time with my Dad working on an old mill and meeting fellow forum members!

-lee

[Seaman]

Yes , a great day. All the help was wonderful! Really enjoyed meeting Lee and his dad Mr. Paul.
Pics and post later, it is past my bedtime.

[Okrafarmer]

We'll be looking forward to the pictures. And yeah, whatever did happen to my hat?

I've gotten a sunburn the last few days-- my nose hurts-- been wanting my hat!

[Seaman]

I think Tee's girl Claude made off with the hat. Not sure. I haven't seen it, ask Tee.

[GDinMaine]

Seaman ... it's almost 07:30 and we have not seen the pictures yet.  It is fantastic how you guys worked together to move that mill.  My hat's off to Tee, Lee and his dad.

[Magicman]

And yeah, whatever did happen to my hat?    -- my nose hurts-- been wanting my hat!

I think Tee's girl Claude made off with the hat. 

My hat's off to Tee, Lee and his dad.

Hat !!!  Did someone mention a "Hat".   What happened to the FOOD  ???   :D

[SPD748]

Food you say? Well, Franks wife arrived just in time with some well built sandwiches. How's that?

-lee

[Magicman]

Now you are finally talking.   

[Okrafarmer]

But still no pictures.

[Seaman]

I know...I know

[Tee]

      Give Frank a little breath catcher before the picture posting. It was after 10 last night before we all left from around the fire. And as far as the hat and Claude; I got no hat, Claude, Marielle,,, O well.
      I've got a voting question for all of you familiar with circle mills and following this story. husk frame, carrage frame and track frame rebuild.
Metal or wood???????????

One random picture for a glimpse. This is Lee (SPD748) and his Dad working on dis-assembly.

 

[Magicman]

I like the JD.    Everything else looks confused.  smiley_dizzy

[SPD748]

Dad and I doing what we do best... that would be me doing what he tells me to. Hey, it's worked for 37 years, why stop now?

-lee

[Seaman]

I just spent 45 min posting pics and text, it all disappeared somehow with one click. Have I mentioned I HATE computers? So all you get is pics. I can't go back and forth.



  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 

Could not have done it without the help!
I think we will go back with wood, to keep cost down, and to be original. This is more a hobby project. I will probably need some pullys and other stuff, I'll post on here first to see if any of you guys have what I need.
Thanks for your intrest, we will try to keep moving on this.

[Okrafarmer]

I'm not an authority, but I vote for wood, especially as this is more of a sentimental project than a cold, hard business decision. The mill was built with wood in the first place, so wood it should be again. Just my fifty cents worth.

[beenthere]

Thanks for the pics Seaman.

If you go to your post, and click on "Modify" button, then you can add some comments between the pics. Do one or two at a time, and not have to worry about losing what you already have.
Some break up their posts into shorter ones with 2-3 pics at a time. You have some great pics there with good clear (doubt it was a phone) pics. Thanks for the hard work.
Apparently no bugs. No one was swatting at them, that I could see.  ;D

[Seaman]

Beenthere, Thanks

[Dave_]

I vote for wood, as well

[Seaman]

Wood it is!

A local sawyer told me to come down this week and help him saw whatever I needed.
It is GREAT to be blessed with friends!
And Tee volunteered to do all the dirty work, like cleaning rusty parts, painting, hauling off stray dogs,etc.....

[doghunter]

frank my neighbor has a meadows mill just like yours set up near me call me and we'll go look at it one day virgil

[Seaman]

Will do Virgil.
Brett the saw doctor came by yesterday and allowed how this is a Turner Mill, not a Meadows. Doesn't change much, project still a go. He showed me several things, bearing cradles, casting #s and track type that helped in ID.
To late to change the thread topic :D

[bandmiller2]

Frank, new circular mill owners always want to put a handle on the mill,but really its a moot point as the old handset mills are so close in design,parts and assemblies can be switch around.Yours looks to be in good shape as they go.If the woods in decent shape use it,wood frame mills built this country.Always be sure the arbor bearings are bolted down well  to good solid wood,no lag bolts,you know where that saw is headed if it pulls loose.Clean rebuild and paint one piece at a time and put it back where it belongs.Pick your location, a side hill is preferable,and build a good foundation,be it cement,sono tubes or pressure treated poles.A mill must have a roof especially a wood framed one.Enjoy the trip my friend its a life changer,bandmills are a hobby, circular mills are a way of life. Frank C.

[dgdrls]

Seaman,

progress??

be well

DGD

[Seaman]

Waiting on the ground to dry out to doze pad. Progress will be slow I think.
Thanks

[dgdrls]

Waiting on the ground to dry out to doze pad. Progress will be slow I think.
Thanks

seems your in the same boat (Arc) as many others here, :-[

stay dry, it's either going to dry up or freeze  :D

look forward to seeing your progress
DGD

[bandmiller2]

Seaman,I don't know the lay of your land but the classic mill site is a sidehill with good drainage.Logs can be rolled onto the dead deck and onto the carriage without lifting.Sawdust heads downhill on the backside of the mill.Leave plenty of room under the mill for cleanout and service.Of course a roof over the mill ,a mill worth owning is a mill worth roofing.A sidehill mill can have a long dead deck to keep logs clean.Gravel is nice but it gets imbedded in the bark and dulls the bits,better course wood chips.Good luck mate planning now will save you a lots of problems later.Frank C.

[nk14zp]

Pick your location, a side hill is preferable,and build a good foundation,be it cement,sono tubes or pressure treated poles.A mill must have a roof especially a wood framed one.Enjoy the trip my friend its a life changer,bandmills are a hobby, circular mills are a way of life. Frank C.

Not to hijack but what are some good wooden post options.  ie ones i can go cut and not have to buy.  I have heard hemlock might be better than cedar.

[Seaman]

nk14zp, I would not put hemlock in the ground, it will rot. Here the wood of choice is locust, then telephone poles. There are white oak post holding a shed my Dad built when I was to little to help, and they are sound today.
As far as site, I do have a gently sloping spot in mind, I will load with my fel, not looking at a production mill, just hobby so far.
Frank

[Ron Wenrich]

When we put our mill up, we put 55 gal oil drums in the ground and filled with stone and concrete.  We put angle iron in the concrete, and bolted the posts to that.  Any post will rot when exposed to water.  It gets worse when there is sawdust or bark around it.  On the old portion of the mill, we used locust.  They rotted where the debarker and chipper are due to all the dirt.  In the new portion of the mill, we used pipe.  We then put I beam on top and were able to get wider spans, and fewer posts.

[bandmiller2]

I used good solid utility poles sunk deep in the ground for my foundation.I worked for a municipality that had there own electric light division and serviced their own poles,all in the family,I had the run of the pile.These poles were replaced because of accidents not rot.You don't want to put a mill on spindly poles as theirs a lot of racking and shock from loading and turning logs.I wouldn't be afrade to use good solid treated RR ties.Rons Idea of using cement filled drums is a good one,cement is the best for the long haul. Frank C.

[ddcuning]

I used power poles from the local utility that I got for free. I then spanned the power poles with wooden I beams that I constructed from sawn wood. Seems to be solid although I have not started sawing on it yet. Poles were sunk 3' in the ground except for two locations where there was rock and we concreted those two in about 18" deep.

Dave C

[bandmiller2]

That should do the trick Dave,they claim a good pole will give you 40-50 years in the ground. Frank C.

[nk14zp]

Guess I need to get in contact with my cousin who works for the local power company.