Blown Gasket - They messed with the wrong Sawyer

[etat]

I've rode two down when i was younger.  Back in the early summer we got careless.  Wasn't up high and just stood a ladder up, only about ten or twelve feet to climb and didn't secure the ladder.  I'd been up and down it no telling how many times that day.  My wife started to step off on it and it and it slid out at the bottom and she rode it to the ground, or 'almost  to the ground.  When she fell she broke two ribs.  I don't care if I'm only climbing a few feet these days.  I'm going to KNOW that ladder is NOT going to move. 

[Kirk_Allen]

The tough part that is left is putting screws in the metal on the northern section where the Hay Hoist is at.  This section sticks out past the main roof and they only secured it at the top while the stradled the peak. They FORGOT to put any screws down the rest of the metal.  The facia is 45 feet up and then I have to screw the metal down about another 8 feet up the roof line (12/12 pitch).

The other part that needs finished is putting screws on the bottom row all across the east side of the roof.  They FORGOT to fasten it there.  

The closure strips I can do myself and dont need them for that.  I will live up to my end and pay them but I expect them to finish screw ups.  If they dont finish it tomarrow they may not get paid.  

CK, I too am NOT afraid of heights. Im not even afraid of ladders.  In fact, falling doesnt even bother me.  Its that stinkin sudden stop that gets me shaken

[sawguy21]

Geez Murf. That is exactly what happened to the heli-logging outfit I worked for. How didja know? :D :D :D Things are booming around here right now and trades are tough to get. There are more gypo outfits taking advantage than a cat show has fleas. Seems the only service trade people available are the ones nobody will hire.

[crtreedude]

Yeah cktate,

That is always the problem - it is also why I work in the office most of the time and the workers watch after me - I think they have instructions from Amy...  :

I am absent minded and it is so easy to get in to trouble really quick because you forgot something.  :-[

Not good at all.

Kirk, don't you hate it when you thought you hired someone to get a job done and you then have to take it back over? I swear, that is something that irritates me to know end - after all, if I wanted to do it, or had the time or the tools, I wouldn't have hired anyone!

[isawlogs]

  Kirk .

You can always ask him to send you the ticket by mail ...  You may have lost  it or forgot it somewhere and would need an another .. 
  A lot of them are not all that bright and he could send you one ... then you got yourself a mail fraud  ;D ;)

[crtreedude]

Boy, you got that right! The stories I could tell.

For example, what all crooks should know but somehow a many don't, is everything is recorded going out of prisons. Well, I once was reviewing a system that did this and saw several records marked "Confesses to crime" - and then the type of crime.

They were all over the place! Since theses systems are capable of capturing the phone number dialed too - it sure makes the district attorney's job easy.  :D

A lot of these crooked people are really dumb. No common sense at all - and they don't read much more than the price of a case of beer.

By the way, one of the funnier ones I had to listen to was when someone was confessing to his lawyer that he killed someone and the lawyer was desperately trying to break in and tell him to shut up, but there was nothing stopping him - until after he got it off his chest. When the lawyer finally was able to tell him that he was being recorded - his response was classic.  :

[Gabby]

I agree with Murf but make sure you send the note Registered Receipt Requested. Its amazing when you send that kind of note how many don't get delivered!

[Engineer]

CK 'n you others -

I've seen this on a lot of jobs and my old boss used to do this occasionally - overestimate the job by ten or fifteen percent, customer gets billed for all materials, and the barn in back of the office starts slowly filling up with materials that are 'left-over' from jobs, and paid for.  After a while they have enough stuff to bid a job (still at ten or fifteen percent over) and not have to buy a thing from the yard.  Most customers were not savvy enough to demand copies of delivery slips and invoices.    The boss makes 110% profit.

I have a crew of three working on roofing and siding my house right now.  I told them I would pay for all materials and place it on my own contractor account.  If they needed ANYTHING, nails, felt paper, adhesive, trim boards, they were to call me and I'd get it.  I'm paying only for labor.  Now if I want a job done 100% and don't want to go shopping, I don't mind paying 10% over for markup, and the contractor works on a T&M basis.  Every stick, every nail, every scrap of shingle or plywood, better be in a pile or in a stack at my place when you leave.  Partial boxes of screws and nails, they're mine, I paid for 'em. 

I would bet that's where the "other guys" were going with that job.  Way overbid, the old man pays for all of it, and the inventory in the shop grows a little bit.

[SW_IOWA_SAWYER]

I have owned and managed many rental units for 20 years, I have had just about every possible thing pulled on me or at least tried on me. I have been ripped off by contractors building a house and cheated by guys I have hired to do something.

And I am telling you this, getting all worked up over something that involves money just ain't worth it. Life is too short to get tied up in a knot stewing over it, CAUSE I will bet you dollars to donuts the other person ain't.

I can hear you saying "this is different" well I have been cheated out of 10s of thousands of dollars and I used to get aggitated (And believe me it wasn't pretty) but in 5 years this won't make any difference and all it does is stress you out.

I am not saying give in or up but, I would give him a deadline to finish in writing and when he misses that date fire him and move on. If you feel he is trying to cheat you don't pay that bill and let him try and get the money from you.  

Just my .02 worth from years of hearing every possible sob story, outright lie imagineable.
Its worth what it cost you

Good Luck

[Kirk_Allen]

Rest assured I AM NOT STRESSING.  I learned a long time ago not to stress out over stuff like this.  Especially since I am in control of the checkbook ;D

This morning the contractor called and asked if the payment was mailed yet.

No, the job is not done so no payment. 

He then went on to accuse me of taking his speed square.  This guy is unreal.  He STILL does not know how much doggy dung is about to hit the fan.

He is here right now finishing puting the screws in they forgot and when he is done I will have my meeting with him.  He will be paid what is owed based on the quote, minus a new rake which he trashed and never replaced. 

The second he gets testy about not getting paid the extra on the other ticket he will be politly informed of the Deceptrive Trade Practice law and given the option to walk away, or have me pay that amount and imediatly turn him in for prosectution.

Turns out that as long as he has not taken money under that fraudulent ticket they cant prosecute until he takes the cash. States attorney is begging me to pay him but not willing to gurantee I will get my money back.  No crime committed until the funds transfer from my hand to his. 

It will be the contrators choice.  In about an hour or so we will find out just how stupid or smart this cat is. 
Stay tuned! 

If your wondering, I am calm, cool, and collected! 

[Modat22]

I'd love to be a fly on the way during that confron.. erm meeting.

[Murf]

I really don't mind picking up the pieces after somebody messed up's it the first go round.

Mind you, 95% of what we do is commercial work so we don't have to deal with the poor homeowners who got screwed either.

I rahter enjoy finishing the job abd restoring peoples faith in contractors, especially after the owner asks me to testify in court when he goes after the crook who screwed the job up in the first place.  ;D

[Tom_Averwater]

Kirk, If you really want to blow his bubble,  tell  him you need a copy of his Liability Ins. and Workmans comp. Certificate before you can pay him.

[Kirk_Allen]

Well I am done with him 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

He got caught in three lies in less than 5 minutes.  I suggested very kindly that he take his final payment and NEVER pull this kind of stunt again.  He said he was sorry for any confusion on materials and that he will eat the difference.

"Eat the Difference?"  Difference of what?  You committed Fraud and if it wasn't for the poor guys you got working for you I wouldn't pay you anything based on a breach of contract.  Do you want to go down that road?  Again, I suggest you take your money and NEVER PULL THIS ON ANYONE again. "

He said he was sorry for the confusion.

CONFUSION?  >:( WHATS CONFUSING ABOUT YOU COMMITTING FRAUD?   >:(

He threw his hands up and walked out with money in hand. 

Why on earth people do these kind of things is beyond me. 

[crtreedude]

Now Kirk - there was confusion - you thought he was an honest contractor...   :

See, just an honest mistake - on your part. I guess you should have known he was a crook.  ;)

[sandmar]

Did he finish up the high part of the roof for you? Sure hope so,those kind of contractors really get my goat! Now spread the word to everyone you see to steer clear of the joker.

Sandmar

[SwampDonkey]

I can hear you saying "this is different" well I have been cheated out of 10s of thousands of dollars

So haven't my folks. And to top that all off we had alot of woodlots (450 acres) on 7 farms that almost every neighbor would sneak a little wood here and there after they would drive through 50 or 100 acres of their own to get there. :   Trouble is that the crooks all know my father is a push over, he never says nothing.  >:(

Well I gotta laugh a little bit here....

Now Kirk - there was confusion - you thought he was an honest contractor... :

See, just an honest mistake - on your part. I guess you should have known he was a crook. ;)

:D :D :D :D

[crtreedude]

Well, I was just trying to be fair...  :

[Lud]

In the 47 years here at the farm ,  we painted roofs with mops tied off on old barn ropes attached to 4 or 5 cement blocks.  The bank barn is that 45 foot to the peak.

When we sided it 10 years ago I went up on the inside,  drilled thru  and unscrewed and put thru a 7/8 turnbuckle which I then cabled to the hayrail.  That ring is what we run the safety rope thru and we left it in the roof for future jobs.   

It's one thing to freeclimb up and run the rope  but thereafter you feel a lot safer.  So if you're building barns etc.  maybe think about the future safety of someone and give 'em a ring to tie off on.

It's a shame Kirk had to go thru that........I admire his restraint ......

[etat]

I seem to remember about twenty years or so ago a band of 'gypsy' type contractors came through here offering to paint rusty tin roofs with aluminum paint.  A few people fell for it.  After they were gone..........and a couple of rains later..........the shiny aluminum color washed off.  Apparently they were taking four or five gallons of thinner per gallon of paint and spraying them.  They'd look real nice and shiny..........until a couple of good rains. 


Another scam that used to go on around was back when white shingles were in style.  After a few years they would start turning black due to a type of algae or mold that gets on shingles.  These crooks would go around and offer to spray them with a 'special' chemical that they got from 'Memphis' or somewhere far off that was really expensive but guaranteed to turn the roofs back white.  The prices they'd charge would be what ever they thought they could get.  These crooks would usually prey on older people, working door to door.  Once trading they'd insist the home owner leave for a while and then get up there and spray it down with bleach and water.  I actually worked for a guy for 'one day' back in the mid seventy's.  When I found out what he was doing and how much he was charging I quit.  As I remember he bragged to me that he'd beat that old lady out of five hundred dollars for a few hours of work and a couple of gallons of bleach.  I understand that there are still some people today who try this same scam, cleaning shingles with bleach and charging HUGE prices.

Wow, i can think of a BUNCH of scams I've heard of over the years but me, I'd just rather do a fair job and then as someone said earlier depend on word of mouth and trying to do good work to keep me busy. 

Here's a picture of a house we just finished that is a almost exact copy of one that was featured in a write up in southern living magazine that will even have a hidden room in it behind a revolving bookcase.



the picture shown is of the backside of the house.  We  roofed it a few months ago except for the eaves which come up with a wall of brick on each one of them and we had to wait until the brick work was done before we could do those two particular ends. 

This house for the most part wasn't very steep or hard to roof with the exception of a couple of dead valleys that were kind of tricky.  The top or the house is flat and up there we installed a one piece EPDM rubber roof.   As I remember we spent three days roofing the house including the top and spent a day each on the three brick eaves finishing them up when we went back.  We actually flashed and counter flashed the brick walls by cutting into the brick itself with a diamond blade and a skillsaw. 

[SwampDonkey]

I seem to remember about twenty years or so ago a band of 'gypsy' type contractors came through here offering to paint rusty tin roofs with aluminum paint.  A few people fell for it.  After they were gone..........and a couple of rains later..........the shiny aluminum color washed off.  Apparently they were taking four or five gallons of thinner per gallon of paint and spraying them.  They'd look real nice and shiny..........until a couple of good rains. 

That's exactly what happened to my Dang fool hearty uncle 2 years ago. I couldn't imagine him being taken in by this scam. He was charged $400 for a 1 hour paint job with aluminum colored paint. I was mad as hell, I'm about the bust a stitch thinking about it.  >:(

[Brad_S.]

60 Minutes or some TV news show like that did a report on that group. They're called 'The Travelers' from South Carolina and take pride on being rated within their community as "good doers", which is "doing" the unsuspecting out of their money. Going door to door for work and thinning paint to stretch it out is their signature scam. If I recall, they also have a sick custom of dressing their children up as adults, parading them around and marrying at a very young age.
http://www.troubleshooterjudd.com/consumer/consumer_irish_scammers.html

[Kirk_Allen]

Yes they finished the high part of the barn but not without more events.

They were in the loft, INSIDE the barn trying to stuff foam under them metal instead of putting the closures on the right way.  OK, I can live with that to a degree, but guess who is SMOKING a cigarette in my barn?  TONY! 

Not the Tony from the south who doesn't know what Snow is  :D

I asked him what the heck he thought he was doing smoking in the barn.  "Tony, what on earth makes you think its NOT OK for your workers to smoke in or around the barn but its OK for you".  "Put out the DanG cigarette and get this job done. 

The contractor called my Dad to apologize and my Dad even caught him in a lie. Dad thought that he sounded scared and was trying his best to convince him NOT to prosecute him for what he did. 

[pigman]

'The Travelers' from South Carolina came by here about 10 years ago wanting to paint my barn roofs. The young boss drove up in his fancy new pickup and asked if I thought the old feed barn roof next to my house needed painting. The old barn was old and bad shape with part of the roof already missing. I have since replaced it with a pole barn.  I told him, sure it needed painting real bad. ;) He smiled and said he could paint that roof for$800 and guarantee that it would look like new. :  I told him that if he could make it look like new that it would be worth $1000. ;D He stopped and looked at me like I was crazy.  He then asked why I was willing to pay more than he asked for. I told him it was simple, "I want you to paint the roof and if it still looks good after 5 years I might  send you the money". ;D He got in his truck and left without saying another word. ;D

[sandmar]

smoking in a barn  : sheesh this guy is lucky you didn't kill him instead of prosecuting him! glad They SORTA finished the job! Hope you have a better day tomorrow Kirk.....you deserve it for your restraint.

Sandmar