Woodmizer vs. ?

[Smakman]

By all accounts, WM has excellent customer service and does a good job overall.  I once dropped into the IN factory and was well recieved and given the "nickel tour".  The mills seem to be well built and do a fine job.  The only reservations I would have about buying a WM would be these.  The price, though I guess all brands seem high at first glance, and the cantilever head design.  I guess it works fine, but it just seems like the 4 post head design would be a lot more stable and be less apt to have problems over time.  Have any of you had any problems with it?

[pigman]

Smakman, I have the WM super. To me the best thing about the cantilever head is the stability. I can set up on uneven ground and be sawing in 15 minutes or less in most cases. On mine the frame is stiff enough that if I only get it close to level it will saw alright.I have set up on soft ground and sawn large logs and found at the end of the day that some of the legs have sunk 6in in the ground. I just though I was getting taller as the day went on. ;)

[Bibbyman]

I'm with pigman.... Not to worry about the cantilever head.

WM has built over 30,000 of these mills in the past almost 25 years and have them in operation all over the world.  They have a very loyal customer base.   They didn't  get that way by building a product that don't work.

[Back40x2]

  Smakman,

      I had the same reservations with WM.  As far as the uneven ground, I live in Maine where the ground is very hilly, rocky, muddy, woody etc.,  Don't be fooled by that "uneven ground" thing ;) ;)  If you were setting it up on big hill that might be different, but what are the chances ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

      Someone on here once said,  school teachers use to have kids that were misbehaving take two erasers and hold them out to there sides.  Over time the arms start to drop, sag, and eventually FAIL.   Take two people make one stand on one leg and the other on both legs.  Which one is more stable ??? ??? ???  Personally I think it's a NO BRAINER ;) 

       Enough said on that I guess.  There mills are expensive, and you can get  the same quality features with other companies for a lot less then what you would pay for a WM.  I have a TK1600, and wish I had gotten the B-20, but that will be next year.  Great customer service ;D ;D ;D  Completely stand behind there product!!!!!

       Good luck, and don't overlook the other Brands.  Too Many cheifs(orange men)  not enough Indians.

[Kirk_Allen]

I think the cantilever head design is one of the biggest selling points for the WM. Set up is QUICK and becuase of he open right side you will see that you can cut some whoppers that simply wont fit inside a 4 post mill. 

Since I cut lots of BIG logs this was a key issue for me. 

[Norwiscutter]

Select sawmills all the way 8) 8)  Can't beat a double cut.   Of course I have to win the lotto first.  Seriously though, I don't own a woodmizer, but would not hesitate to buy one if the deal was right.  I really don't think there are too many right or wrong decisions that can be made when purchasing a mill if you choose one of the quality brands on the left of the screen. I think the more important decision to be made is regarding your price range and intended use. Figure out your budget, then look at the mills offered in that range.  Personnally, for High end portable mills, I would probably buy blue.  For the middle of the road mills(25,000-30,000) the orange one with the new diesel looks pretty nice, but would probably go with the LM-3 by Logmaster. The B-20 looks like a great mill for entry level hydrolics, and my little red manual mill has worked well so far.

[MrMoo]

I'm with Norwiscutter I have a Logmaster LM-2 with a Cat diesel. Great machine and a good company. They are there when you need then. If you call you talk to the owners who also design the machines.
These mills are very rigid and they can be setup quickly. They are some of the most rugged machines on the market.

[raycon]

No problems with the cantilevered heads on my two woodmizers -- they've been holding there arms out since 1989 & 1991 and showing no signs of tiring.  I'd look for hydraulics,service,price, and not use the cantilevered head as the reason to turn down a mill.  Start with the sponsors list I'd think you'd be making qaulity lumber with a mill from any one of them.

[Brad_S.]

Look at all the brands out there. I feel sawmills are like the VCR or the computer. BETA and MAC had the superior technology, but VHS and IBM won the market share. The most popular isn't always the best.

When I was shopping for my first mill, the first thing I noticed about WM was how they treated me like I was an absolute interuption to their day, and this at a trade show where they're supposed to have the time. I've never forgiven them for that. I also don't like that cantalievered design, all those electric motors to burn out, walking back and forth in your own sawdust all day, always cutting into the dirty face and that goofy claw turner.

I've set up my 4 post head on rough ground with no problems and set up is as quick as anyones.

[GF]

Here is my 2 cents worth, have never personally seen a Woodmizer or any other mill in person.  Some keypoints I would look at:

* Stability of the head, and the quality of the steel going into the product
* Look at the welds to see how well they look especially on inside corners.
* Check the detail of the outside metal cuts, if the cuts are rough on outside edges more than likely they are
    the same under the welds.
* I myself would prefer hydraulics over electric components anyday, just seemed to me in the past that
    electronics, dust, dirt, weather, and vibration never worked together to well.  A large amount of industrial
    equipment has all hydraulic power for the working components.
* See how well they stand behind there warranty, and how well there tech support is.
* Check the pricing of accessories for a sawmill, compared to accessory pricing of other mills.  Alot of
    times the high cost of accessorries may tell you how they price the base unit also.

These would be the things I would look for to begin with, then again I ended up building my own mill from the ground up myself.  Some of the items listed above was what I looked at on my saw when I was building it. 

GF

[OneWithWood]

I looked at a lot of mills before I bought my Woodmizer LT40 Hydraulic.  The one thing I noticed right off was that though the other manufacturers were quick to point out all the supposed flaws with the Woodmizer design, Woodmizer sales people never bad mouthed their competitors mills.  It seems when everyone is comparing to one, that one must have something going for it. 
Perhaps some of the folks who have both types of mills will chime in here with some first hand knowledge of the pros and cons of each design.

[Engineer]

I want to echo OWW's reply.   It seems that everyone wants to compare their mill to a WoodMizer.   WoodMizer stands behind their product and provides excellent reliability and service.  I recall reading in ISWM magazine a couple years ago that WM voluntarily pulled out of the Sawmill Shootout to give other mills a fighting chance to win.  They were walking all over the competition. 

The way I look at price - well, my WM is 20 years old.  If I were to buy a new one, I could expect another 20-30 years.  Spread the cost out over that time, and all of a sudden it doesn't look like much.    Heck, they cost less than a new SUV, and you won't get half the life and a tenth of the fun out of the sport-yuptility vehicle. 

As for the cantilevered head - well, mine is still straight, no sag, no problems, still cuts dead-nuts-square timbers.   How do you argue with that?  I can set mine up almost anywhere and cut.  Since I don't have any part of my property flat, I guess WM is my only choice...   :D

The way my mill has performed for me in the two years I've owned it, and the guy who owned it before me; and the way that I have been treated by the staff at WM Northeast, I honestly wouldn't even look at another brand, even to compare (sorry, sponsors!).   This isn't even a typical "Stihl vs Husky" debate - there's so many options to look at that you need to figure out exactly what you need and go with it.   WM is unique in it's design and they have taken out the kinks in the operation pretty well over the past 20 years.  I am amazed at how different and efficient the new mills are compared to my antique.

[Bibbyman]

Well said.....

One thing you can do.   Buy the mill and see if it works up to your expectations.   If not,  return it within 30 days for a complete refund.

[GF]

Quote:
One thing you can do.   Buy the mill and see if it works up to your expectations.   If not,  return it within 30 days for a complete refund.


That also means alot, a money back guarantee.

[Smakman]

I have to agree, you don't sell as much equipment and stay in business as long as WM has unless you are doing something right.  I hate to finance anything for that much though, unless I am living in it.

[FiremanEd]

We have a 7 year old Timber Harvester which has cut more than a few semi loads of lumber and a 1 year (w/ me) Wood Mizer. I'm totally sold on WM's customer service and machine design. Unless something drastic happens any new mills in my future will be WoodMizer, cant say orange,,, With that said the Timber Harvester is a good 4 post machine. If I was going with a 4 poster it'd be from www.cookssaw.com, Tim builds a beefed up and better version of the Timber Harvester and his customer service is equal to WoodMizers. He to, will not badmouth the competition as do some other people in the business.

My vote WM Grey! (course they changed the color again,, some bright green now but still the same mill)

[Brad_S.]

I had wanted to put my two cents in and stay out of this discussion after that, but I had to jump back in. ;)

Engineer, I have to call you on this, but understand that I enjoy your posts and respect your opinions (as I respect everyones) so I am not saying this in a pithy or argumentative fashion. :
You said:

I recall reading in ISWM magazine a couple years ago that WM voluntarily pulled out of the Sawmill Shootout to give other mills a fighting chance to win.  They were walking all over the competition.

I don't recall reading this. What I recall is that WM won the first shootout by the  skin of their teeth and did so by bypassing their claw turner and using cant hooks to rotate their logs. I know many who view it as getting out while they're on top. :D I will certainly be willing to eat crow if this quote is substantiated.

I feel I have to duck and cover anytime I post a response to a persons WM question. As I said to Coon after he got upset over me expressing my views of WM, very few mill owners are unhappy with the decision they made, regardless of the manufacturer. Once we own our mill, we become cheerleaders for that brand. I hope all you WM owners can understand we are just sticking up for our "team" when we chime in here. After all, Smakman asked "WM vs. ?", so us minority owners are speaking up for the "?"! ;D

 

[Kelvin]

The woodmizer people were not that helpful for me.  I had my fair share of crazy factory defects that would keep my machine down for days.  They talked me through problems, bought they were all too willing to blow me off instead of just sending the correct part to fix the problem.  They weren't too helpful for me having paid them $25k on a brand new mill.  THey acted like it was just another inconvience to sell it to me.  Maybe this out of the ordinary, but i feel they didn't do all they could.  I was about ready to send the mill back as a lemon, i even wrote the president about all the trouble, got no reply.  However after looking at the competition, Baker, Timberking, neither looked like it was built as well, just look at the craftsmanship on the loader arms, and cost about the same from what i could tell.

I am considering selling my like new '03 LT40 hydro w/ debarker and maybe blade sharpener equipment.  If you are interested in buying one of these it will save you a couple thousand, but i'm not trying to give it away.  I am using it to build my own timber frame home, and its been in my saw shed since new.  It has about 300 hrs, perfect maintance.  No more problems as well, just bad factory attention to details!  Worked out the bugs.

If i were doing this for a living this would be the only mill i would buy.  There are a lot of mills around here and two of my friends each have one so i think i will build a kiln and sell the mill.

[gmmills]

         I guess it's mine turn. I just bought my third WM mill LT70. Picked it up at WM PA on April 18. Spent a few hours with the new mill under the watchful eye of fellow member Marty Parsons.  If you are thinking of buying a WM mill give Marty a call. You will be treated right.
        The mill I replaced was a 2000 LT40 Super D42.This mill had 4010 Hrs on it. Customer support is one of the most important issues for me I when considering mill brands. Sawing is my full time job and when I need a part in a hurry it can be at my doorstep before 10 AM the next morning.

        As far as 4 post verses cantilever goes. They both cut good lumber when maintained properly. I was impressed buy the big Baker and Cook's. Both built plenty heavy.

        Another plus on the WM side is re-sale value. I sold the super for 3/4  of what it cost new.  8) 8) 8) The orange color is a big selling point in our area. Within a 30 radius of me there are 12 WM's sawing. It seems to be the brand of choice around here.

[ARKANSAWYER]

 

  I make adjustments to my mill from time to time.  Wanda an LT40HDG25 has sawn over a million bdft of lumber and worn out 3 sets of trailer tires.  We went just 51 miles from home yesterday and sawed up a few thousand bdft of walnut for another sawmill.  Will saw just as true today as the day I bought her.  She has been drug into places where I broke off the front and rear support legs.  I have set up on the sides of hills where we had to dig in the front down a foot and the back leg be on 24 inches of blocks. 
  Just like the problems you may have with the little electric motors you will have with hydralics leaking and busting.  4 poster mills are not better just different.  With my head design I can get away with some things and the cut is just as good as any other mill with a sharp blade and well adjusted machine.  All machines need to be worked on, the difference is can you work on it and can you get the parts for it.  WM has good support and so does TK and Baker.  I guess on any given day you could call any one of them and catch some one having a bad day and not get the respect that you should.  You can call ARKANSAWYER SAWMILL sometimes for days and not get an answyer because I pulled several 16 hour days on the road and LBJ is tired.  But given time we will get back to you and when we work for you we do the best we can with what we are given.   When you look out and see alot of Orange there must be a reason.  They have been making that head design for many many years and I have seen several 20+ year machines still sawing good lumber.  So it works and keeps working, thus it must be a stable design.  One reason WM does so well is the number of people who are repeat customers.  One reason I do so well is the number of repeat customers.  I have never had a customer tell me that I sawed really crappy lumber last time so they thought that they would try me again.  This is a business where my customer base is not everyone but just a small percent of the population.  The same is true of Sawmill Manufactors.  Not everyone is going to buy a sawmill.  A very small percent of the population is going to buy sawmills so you do not want to screw them over if you expect to sell them another mill someday.   Almost everyone owns a car or two and most have gotten a crappy car.  But the Car guys have such a large percent of the market it is of no real concern about a crappy car or two from time to time.   
  There is an old saying  "Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door."   There is over 30,000 of them out there and they have been doing it for over 25 years and I would buy another.
  But if I were to change brands it would be just a matter of clicking to the left on the button to pick out which one.

[hawby]

What Arky said!!!! 8)

[Engineer]

Brad,

I may very well be wrong, or that statement may have come from WM themselves (trying to quit while they're ahead).   In any event, that sounds like something dumb - why use cant hooks when the claw turner is right there?  DUH.   : ???    I would think that using the claw would be a LOT faster.  Oh well.  I know turning logs on my mill with cant hooks is anything BUT fast, and by the time I'm done turning a big'un, I'm ready to quit anyway.   

No crow for you, I have nothing to prove.   :D

Arky hit the nail on the head though - everybody has their preferences, usually based on personal experience.  If you have no experience, you go with what looks good.   I don't think a person can do wrong with any of the Forum's sponsors, and anyway, why limit yourself to a bandmill?  Some people get a lot more mileage from a swingblade for specialized cutting, or even a chainsaw mill for slabbing.

[submarinesailor]

Arky - VERY well said!!!!!!!!

[MartyParsons]

Thanks GMMILLS,

[When I was shopping for my first mill, the first thing I noticed about WM was how they treated me like I was an absolute interuption to their day, and this at a trade show where they're supposed to have the time. I've never forgiven them for that.]
If I ever treat you like this please let me know. Somtimes it is tough at a show to get everyones question answered in time before they walk away. :'(  I realy like to be one on one with anyone interested in any mill not just WM. I try not to address any other band mills and always tell people to check out every mill they are interested in. WM has a good product. NO WM is not perfect but we will go out of our way to make it right.
Marty

[Faron]

I have never had a problem dealing with the Indy office.  Whenever I have had a technical problem, someone has always stayed on the phone until we figured out a solution.  While I'm guessing the other mills are excellent, I think getting logs between the posts on a four poster would drive me nuts.