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Can I legally transport logs to MA from NH?

Started by Piston, January 09, 2014, 09:14:31 AM

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Piston

I know there are stipulations regarding moving logs in and out of certain parts of MA, but I'm not sure what they are, or where to find them? 

Can anyone guide me in the right direction as to where I can find these rules, and what towns are included? 

I want to take sawlogs and firewood in log length from my land in Alton, NH back home to Upton, MA....and I really don't want to get a fine from the state police or bring an EAB back home with me.   ;D

Not sure if the ALB has infested NH or not yet. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

thecfarm

MA Forestry Dept? I had an issue with white pines logs here once. We was cutting them in Kennebec Co and skidding them into Franklin Co. Kennebec had some sort of restriction. Could not move them into Franklin. Just a phone call and we was all set.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

AnthonyW

The emerald ash borer (EAB) has been found in Merrimack county as of Spring 2013.

There are several quarantines in effect.

Here is the Ash borer quarantine placed into effect last year and applies to Merrimack county:
·         hardwood firewood—split or unsplit—of less than four feet in length;
·         all species of Fraxinus (ash): nursery stock, green lumber, logs, any other material living, dead, cut or fallen, including chips, stumps, branches, roots and debris;
·         woodchips consisting in any part of Fraxinus (ash) chips, and
·         any article, product or means of conveyance not listed above if an inspector determines that it presents a risk of spreading emerald ash borer.

The other is more general, no untreated firewood (ie., not dried in a certified kiln) may be brought into the state.

I didn't find any other restrictions in NH and no references to ALB, but I know there are restrictions of export in some MA counties due to ALB especially in Worcester and the surrounding counties. I don't know my MA geography well but isn't Upton close to Worcester county?
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Shotgun

Quote from: AnthonyW on January 09, 2014, 12:30:22 PM
The emerald ash borer (EAB) has been found in Merrimack county as of Spring 2013.

There are several quarantines in effect.

Here is the Ash borer quarantine placed into effect last year and applies to Merrimack county:
·         hardwood firewood—split or unsplit—of less than four feet in length;
·         all species of Fraxinus (ash): nursery stock, green lumber, logs, any other material living, dead, cut or fallen, including chips, stumps, branches, roots and debris;
·         woodchips consisting in any part of Fraxinus (ash) chips, and
·         any article, product or means of conveyance not listed above if an inspector determines that it presents a risk of spreading emerald ash borer.

The other is more general, no untreated firewood (ie., not dried in a certified kiln) may be brought into the state.

I didn't find any other restrictions in NH and no references to ALB, but I know there are restrictions of export in some MA counties due to ALB especially in Worcester and the surrounding counties. I don't know my MA geography well but isn't Upton close to Worcester county?

Anthony, you should be asking the agency responsible for enforcing the quarantine this question.  I'd start with the county of origin first. 
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

Piston

Anthony,
Yes, Upton is close to Worcestor, it's part of Worcestor county. I won't be taking any wood out of this area, I'll only be bringing wood in, not sure if that makes a difference or not.

So it sounds like NH is okay with log length as long as it's not Ash.

Again, I'll only be hauling log length.
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

beenthere

Logs from NH to MA (per the subject title), then wouldn't the MA rules be the controlling factor and prevail?
Don't know why NH would have controls or care about exporting logs? 

Seems MA however would care about importing logs/wood in to MA.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Shotgun

The state of origin of the logs will be the one that does the required certification on the product being shipped/hauled, if any, and if the State of NH doesn't know or can't handle the requirements, the shipper can then contact MA as the destination state. The shipping state has access to the regs of the destination state, and it's their job to fill the certification need, if possible. 
 
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

DeerMeadowFarm

Quote from: beenthere on January 09, 2014, 01:55:38 PM
Logs from NH to MA (per the subject title), then wouldn't the MA rules be the controlling factor and prevail?
Don't know why NH would have controls or care about exporting logs? 

Seems MA however would care about importing logs/wood in to MA.

Makes sense to me...^^^^^^

Holmes

  Try your state forester, Looked up by county and region of county.  I believe they work out of UMass  Amherst.   I talked to mine a lot when I planned my harvest.  Ma. state foresters.?
   District 2  Guy LaChance will be your source of information for all your forestry ? ? ?
Think like a farmer.

AnthonyW

Quote from: beenthere on January 09, 2014, 01:55:38 PM
Logs from NH to MA (per the subject title), then wouldn't the MA rules be the controlling factor and prevail?
Don't know why NH would have controls or care about exporting logs? 

Seems MA however would care about importing logs/wood in to MA.

NH cares as they are are trying to contain the spread of the EAB even within the state. Unfortunately even the forestry department stated that the quarantine is 3-4 years too late; the amount of time it takes to notice the EAB damage.

In MA, Worcester county has a export quarantine. In NH, Merrimack county has an export quarantine. The State of NH has an import quarantine. Apparently, they can generate them working both ways.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

boscojmb

Quote from: Piston on January 09, 2014, 09:14:31 AM
I know there are stipulations regarding moving logs in and out of certain parts of MA, but I'm not sure what they are, or where to find them? 

Can anyone guide me in the right direction as to where I can find these rules, and what towns are included? 

I want to take sawlogs and firewood in log length from my land in Alton, NH back home to Upton, MA....and I really don't want to get a fine from the state police or bring an EAB back home with me.   ;D

Not sure if the ALB has infested NH or not yet.

Hi Alton is in Belknap County. There is no quarantine in Belknap County so you can move logs and firewood cut in Alton to Upton or any where you want.
You will most likely have to drive through Merrimack county on your way back to Upton and Merrimack does have a quarantine..
If it was me I would make sure that I had proof that the wood came from Alton with me on the ride home, but as far as I can tell you are legal.
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/quarantine-counties.htm
John B.

Log-Master LM4

Piston

Thanks for the additional information guys.  I'll check out the link that Bosco posted and also get in contact with the MA forester like Holmes suggested. 

For the heck of it, I'll contact the Belknap county forester as well, since I've been back and forth with him a few times over the last couple weeks.  I never even thought to ask him.   :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

woodmills1

as far as I know there is not a ban on importing from NH to MA
I do know that wood from the county containing worchester in ma is not allowed out of the county, and that wood from the county containing concord in NH is not allowed out of the county


Also, a new finding of EAB in North Andover ma is probably going to change everything

It is currenty not allowed to transport firewood or logs intending to be firewood from Ma to NH

there is not much in the way of enforcement, but I have personally spoken to people who had Ma firewood in there posession taken from them by NH lawmen who saw it at rest stops or fuel stations
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

AnthonyW

Quote from: woodmills1 on January 12, 2014, 05:04:57 PM
there is not much in the way of enforcement, but I have personally spoken to people who had Ma firewood in there posession taken from them by NH lawmen who saw it at rest stops or fuel stations

I have had conversations with folks that stayed at state parks, having their out of state firewood collected at check in. They also mentioned the wood was placed into plastic trash bags. So there is at least some effort of trying to show containment.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Piston

I received a response from my (NH) county forester, this is what he said...

QuoteFirewood cannot be moved into NH.

As for moving wood around NH or to the MA border, you can move firewood (and any wood) throughout New Hampshire. However, there is a quarantine in Merrimack County, this means you cannot move firewood out of Merrimack County unless you meet certain requirements (special compliance agreements). You can drive your wood through Merrimack County but it must be covered and you cannot stop (besides the obvious [tolls, traffic lights, etc.], they do not want people stopping for rest room breaks, food, etc.).

He did not know the requirements for MA, so he gave me the contact info for someone who can help me.  I have sent an email and will let you all know when I receive a response.  I'm posting this info here in case it helps anyone else. 

Thanks for the help guys. 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

SwampDonkey

The hauling firewood into camp grounds reminds me of one time. The neighbors loaded up their van for a weekend at a camp ground and threw in some firewood. They weren't gone long because the next day I noticed the van returned, I suspect with the firewood as well. ;) I've stayed at provincial parks and the wood was always free. The park rangers cut dead falls up and I think had a portable mill for making rest areas. But they had lots of firewood shelters around the campground areas free for the taking. We also had park areas where you were on your own. A chainsaw and a near by clearcut with roadside waste left behind made some ready firewood. Cords and cords of waste white birch left for the bugs and fungus and fire pit wood. Don't forget the burn permit. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Jim_Rogers

Ok, so let's say you're driving along the road between your place up there and down here. And you get stopped.
How you going to prove you cut this wood on your own land in NH where it is alright to cut and transport to your own land in MA?

Are you going to make out a bill of sale to yourself from yourself?

How are you going to talk them out of taking your wood or stopping you from going any further?

What are you going to do it they want to give you a ticket?

Things I think you may need to think about.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Shotgun

Jim, that's exactly the reason that I suggested early on that he contact the state of origin.  I spent 35 years doing the certification work, or supervising the folks that do the work in the product state of of origin, among many other tasks.  It's the job of the state of origin agriculture department (generally) that does the work to move wood product or plant materials easily to the desired destination.  We provided assistance for intra-state, inter-state, and international shipments, many millions of dollars worth every year.  Everybody's an expert, so I bowed out.

Good point, Jim.

Norm
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

Piston

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on January 14, 2014, 01:46:45 PM
Are you going to make out a bill of sale to yourself from yourself?

How are you going to talk them out of taking your wood or stopping you from going any further?

What are you going to do it they want to give you a ticket?

Things I think you may need to think about.

Jim Rogers

Jim, all good points, and I'm glad you asked. 

As you know, I tend to take a LOT of pictures  ;D  My plan is to mark the standing trees with spraypaint, then after I cut them up into logs, mark each log, and take pictures of this process. 

I'll also carry a printed copy of the emails I've received, as well as contact info of the forester who sent it, as well as the latest amendment, which actually doesn't seem to include my town anyways??
http://massnrc.org/pests/albdocs/ALB11tthAmendedOrder101711.pdf_with_map.pdf

I figure between pictures, emails, and the written regs, it will show that I'm well aware of the quarantine areas and rules regarding them.  Frankly, I think even what I'm doing is a little overboard, but it doesn't take much time so why not. 

I'm confident that I won't have any issues with these precautions, and if I do...well...then it's just not my day  :D  .....and life goes on...


Quote from: Jim_Rogers on January 14, 2014, 01:46:45 PM
Ok, so let's say you're driving along the road between your place up there and down here. And you get stopped.
How you going to prove you cut this wood on your own land in NH where it is alright to cut and transport to your own land in MA?
Even with pictures and my verbal explanation to an officer, it won't absolutely "prove" that I cut this wood in a quarantine free zone, however..... How is an officer going to prove that I didn't?   ;)

I'm not running drugs here, I'm cutting firewood  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

woodmills1

my crystal ball says kill dried firewood is the future


cause kiln dried firewood is too expensive
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

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