The Spotted Owl Again

[Gary_C]

Obama plan for spotted owl targets rival bird

To save the imperiled spotted owl, the Obama administration is moving forward with a controversial plan to shoot barred owls, a rival bird that has shoved its smaller cousin aside.

A plan announced Tuesday would designate habitat considered critical for the bird's survival, while allowing logging to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfire and to create jobs. Habitat loss and competition from barred owls are the biggest threats to the spotted owl.

Interior Secretary Ken Salazar called the draft plan "a science-based approach to forestry that restores the health of our lands and wildlife and supports jobs and revenue for local communities."

By removing selected barred owls and better managing forests, officials can give communities, foresters and land managers in three states important tools to promote healthier and more productive forests, Salazar said.


Is this called "gunboat" science?  air_plane

[DGK]

Sorry to say that I have lost all hope for any government to make the right decisions. It appears to me that government is completely disconnected from reality.

[mad murdock]

It seems that those who were really in the know
In the 80's were right-the spotted owls were being bred out of existence by intermingling with the barred owl. The truth will come out in the end I guess. Too bad thousands upon thousands of jobs in the PNW had to be done away by their jaded science.

[terry f]

      I like seeing owls but they all look the same to me, and I don't care what kind they are, but could someone explain why closeing some federal land to logging is a bad thing. Demand sets the production from the mills, the mills set the price where they can make a profit. The demand seems to be met by private landowners and timber companys, if you throw federal timber into it, won't it lower the price even more. It's not too far above the the cost to get it to the mill now, and there isn't much left for the landowner, whether he's private or federal.

[Silver_Eagle]

"Interior Secretary Ken Salazar called the draft plan "a science-based approach to forestry that restores the health of our lands and wildlife and supports jobs and revenue for local communities.""

Hey Ken, is that why there is not one mill still in operation in NE Oregon? Spotted owl, NAFTA = Brilliant!

[Jeff]

Great, I suppose they are going to come along and make me replace the barred Owl on the Forestry Forum's front page slideshow with a spotted owl.
https://forestryforum.com/data1/images/dsc03123.jpg

[BaldBob]

Hey Ken, is that why there is not one mill still in operation in NE Oregon? Spotted owl, NAFTA = Brilliant!

????
Spotted Owls are not native to NE Oregon, so were never a direct issue there.  Unless something I'm not aware of happened in the last month, there are at least 3 sawmills, a plywood plant, and a particleboard plant still operating in NE Oregon.

[Gary_C]

Or you might find a large bullet hole in your logo.  :

[Gary_C]

      I like seeing owls but they all look the same to me, and I don't care what kind they are, but could someone explain why closeing some federal land to logging is a bad thing.

It is a bad thing to NOT properly manage our natural resources and allow them to fall into unhealthy conditions. You cannot create healthy or the desired "old growth" forests with a hands off approach.

It has little to do with supply and demand of forest products though a hands off approach will certainly have a negative effect on supply and the health of the logging and sawmill businesses.

[Silver_Eagle]

"Spotted Owls are not native to NE Oregon, so were never a direct issue there.  Unless something I'm not aware of happened in the last month, there are at least 3 sawmills, a plywood plant, and a particleboard plant still operating in NE Oregon."

The timber sale pressure in NE Oregon was tremendous during the spotted owl era. Mill's starting buying anything and everything they could locate. The pressure from Western Oregon flowed through to Eastern about 6 month's after the owl announcement. I know, I'm from a 3rd generation logging, milling, lumber yard family there.

Yes, Boise Cascade re-opened a partial shift in the Lagrande sawmill plant last fall. BC has been shipping there saw log's to Idaho for year's though from the area. I was speaking to saw mill's not ply wood or partical board plant's though. Rogue, Round Valley lumber, Peacock, Idaho Timber, Kinzua, John Day Lumber, Wallowa Miller's, Union Lumber, all have closed over the year's. Boise Cascade left Lagrande mill closed long enough to break the Union's grip from what I understand, some of the area's better paying job's. All the logger's have taken huge hit's, Haefer Logging for example, one of the area's largest and oldest firm's closed in the early 90's due to timber pressure and pricing compression's. I know Irv Haefer, I cut line log's for him for year's.

The spotted owl debacle in fact had significant impact's on the East side as well.   

[Ianab]

I like seeing owls but they all look the same to me, and I don't care what kind they are, but could someone explain why closeing some federal land to logging is a bad thing.

It's usually a matter of unintended consequences.

Like stopping logging in certain areas has changed the dynamic of the forest to a pre-human situation, where it grows, matures, over-matures, then burns, in a spectacular and uncontrolled way. This is probably the "Natural" way of things, and the trees naturally regenerate after the fire, and the cycle starts again. Rinse and repeat.

Not so good if you happen to live in that area and your house and business got destroyed in the process.

Not sure if this is an issue in the area being talked about, but I know it is in many other other places.

Also an unintended consequence if I remember right is that the Owls in question don't actually like living in a mature forest. Once the canopy closes all the undergrowth dies off, and that's where the owls natural prey lives. Not in the open but dark under-story of an old growth forest. They prefer a younger regenerating forest, with the shrubs and wildlife that supports.

So a possible consequence of 'hands off" management is that all the owls move out, to recently logged and regenerating areas nearby, then the whole mess goes up in flames anyway.  :-\

Now our native forest is generally managed in a "hands off" approach for conservation, but it's a very different place to the average Nth American forest, and fire is not a normal occurrence in a damp rainforest. So it will reach a steady climax state where old trees die, fall over and regenerate singly or in small groups. So it remains in a steady, but dynamic state. Not a mature, burn off, start again cycle.

So a bit of careful management and logging can make for a better environment, both for the people AND the animals in the forest.

Ian

[Silver_Eagle]

Ian;

In NE Oregon there is elk habitat facility called the Starkey Experimental Range. It is a fenced in range ground's to study elk habit's etc. I delivered the post's and fencing for my brother's lumber yard there when I was in High School. In the 90's they conducted a selective cut logging operation within the habitat to see how elk would act in the area.

Big surprise,  the elk moved into the select cut area's basically over night. The next spring when the grass was coming up within the freshly logged area's, the elk basically stayed close most of the year. I had a child hood friend who worked there who kept us informed. I guess log cutter's who walk down into there strip's each morning that run elk off eating the moss off red fir's where pretty spot on before million's of tax payer funding was spent on the study lol.  :D

Sorry to get off topic, just wanted to share another brilliant land mark idea they performed on the area.  :P :

I grew up around all the issue's in Oregon and still have mega heart burn over how the sawmill, logging industries where treated but I will be good now that I have vented.  :D :-\      

[sawguy21]

BC has been shipping there saw log's to Idaho for year's though from the area.   

We are not happy with this either. Keeps some loggers working but it's tough watching the loads drive by under producing or idle mills. No winners here.
This whole spotted owl thing is a cruel joke. It has nothing to do with protecting the bird's habitat and everything to do with shutting down logging to preserve aesthetics. The owl is just a poster boy for a larger agenda. Don't get me going on the Great Spirit Bear here on the coast. >:(

[BaldBob]

Sawguy21,
The BC Silver_ eagle was referring to is Boise Cascade NOT British Columbia. He is also incorrect. While the company did occasionally ship a few logs to Idaho, after shutting down their mill in Horseshoe Bend Idaho 10 or 12 years ago, they shipped far more logs from Idaho to Northeast Oregon than ever went the opposite direction.

[BaldBob]

Silver_eagle,
I will not disagree that the Spotted Owl debacle had significant indirect impact on the timber industry in Northeast Oregon. Its primary impact was however to sharply drive up stumpage prices in the area. This was as much a boon to private timberland owners as it was a hit on sawmills and loggers.
My statement that it had no direct impact on timber supply in Northeast Oregon holds true. Its impact was on demand.  The drastic reductions in timber sale offerings by the Eastside National Forests came a few years after the Westside reductions caused by the Spotted Owl rulings, and were caused by other environmentalism issues.
I was mainly countering your statement that there were no operating sawmills remaining in Northeast Oregon. In addition to the plywood plant in Elgin and the particle board plant in Island City, there are operating sawmills in La Grande, Pilot Rock, Prairie City, Elgin, and John Day. Yes it is a tragedy that so many mills have shut down in that area, but many of those you named went under long before the Spotted Owl ever became an issue.
BTW, I knew Irv Hafer quite well and worked with him quite closely over the 26 years that I was a forester for Boise Cascade. Although , I'm sure that the hard times in the timber industry strongly influenced his decision to quit logging, I'm also sure that his age and the impact of his divorce were at least equal factors in that decision.

[Silver_Eagle]

Baldbob;

I don't really want to discuss Irv's personal life here but just for a note, I am the one who put Irv on the 4 wheeler he rode through the parade when he was voted Grand Marshall in the Lagrande. My family also sold and delivered most of the lumber to his retreat in Troy area once he retired.

I grew up in the grande ronde valley, 3rd and 4th generation in the industry not the coast of Washington State. Something to be said for boot's on the ground they say.

Between the spotted owl and NAFTA it crippled the local area economies and those are the fact's.

[terry f]

      Bob don't forget about Pendleton, and they just built one in Boardman, but thats another story. When you worked for Boise was there ever a shortage of raw logs comeing in, or was it a weak demand for the finished product  that hurt the mills? I think alot of the mill closeings on the eastside was because it cost too much to retool the mills to saw smaller logs.

[Mike_M]

 It's a crying shame that our schools and local goverment are in such shambles suffering from huge and continuous budget cuts. While this great renewable resource called timber just goes to waste on state and federal lands. The whacko tree huggers won't be happy until it's all locked up. If it't not the spotted owl, it's the marbled merlet, or other critter they can use as an excuse. We the foresters, loggers, and land owners are the true stewards of the forest. We take great pride to nurture this timberland we live, hunt, fish, and recreate in. It gives me a great sense of pride to see others share the same thoughts as I do.

[Silver_Eagle]

Hello Mike;

Your post is so spot on in my humble opinion.

Your area over by Noti, I used to know some logger's from that area, Macdougal Brother's logging, my uncle in Island City at Eagle sky car sold them a few carriages over the year's. They had a sub contract logger who logged a sale right beside us in Halfway Oregon in the 90's, we where all shipping the pine to Kinzua out of Heppner before they shut down. Really good guy's, I really miss those day's. 

[Mike_M]

Silver Eagle,  It sure is a small world. We run a Eaglet carriage on our yarder and love it. Great group of people who run Eagle, they are always friendly and able to answer questions. I have faith that people like us will prevail and help educate others on proper forest management. I don't post alot on the Forum, but I visit often just to get a good moral boost and to see that others think like I do.

[Silver_Eagle]

Mike;

Wow, your right, sure is a small world. You have probably spoke to Sam over at eagle, he is my cousin, Scotty's son. Monte might still be over at eagle, he was the yarder operator for Hafer logging GT3 machine, when Hafer shut down, he went to work there service machines but don't know if Monte is still there.

They are very very sharp when it comes to carriages. I have hooked alot of log's under a eagle sky car, they are a proven work horse for sure. Also saves having your nose in the dirt pulling line clear from the yarder lol.

I thank you for your post here today, sure bring's back alot of good memories at home.

[Mike_M]

Silver Eagle,
                  You are never going to beleive this, but Monte was just up on our job site not more than 1 hour ago fixing our carriage. We had a small issue with the spitter wheel and when I called yesterday, I talked with Sam he said no problem that Monte was in the area and would swing in today. Now that is service. I had just introduced myself to Sam and Monte last week at the Oregon Logging Conference. Top Notch people. Take care.

[BaldBob]

terry f,
You're right, I did forget about the Boardman mill. That's probably because it will only be milling the irrigated plantation poplar that is growing on former sagebrush land, and thus is not a direct target of the anti logging crowd. Most of the surviving mills in NEO re-tooled to handle smaller logs many years ago. The restrictions on timber sales never actually prevented BCC from getting logs. It did however make the costs of that timber often prohibitive, especially in a down lumber market. We were always able to get enough logs to keep the mills running, but sometimes their cost made it imprudent to keep running if lumber prices were too low.  Once we even brought logs in by rail from Utah when we couldn't get enough logs locally, while lumber prices were high enough to justify the cost.

Silver eagle,
I only moved to my present location 2 1/2 years ago after working for over 30 years in NEO (Baker City, La Grande, & Elgin). I did not really want to leave La Grande, but needed to get to a facility to best care for my wife's major health issues. How long have you been in Texas instead of NEO?

[terry f]

     Bob, when the owl hit ,was it only old growth or was it all federal forest on the west side. I know it was a big deal here, but how would it affect anyone from Bend Oregon, to Maine. If you are in Utah, what changes were there? Or do all local markets have their own challenges.       Boardman might have two mills. They have one for the poplar plantation, and I think the Port of Morrow might have one.

[BaldBob]

Terry,
When a significant share of the total timber that was previously available for harvest is withdrawn, the effect is like throwing a rock in a pond - the biggest impact is right where the rock went in, but the ripple effect spreads far & wide.
The calculation of how annual allowable cut is calculated is too complex to cover in a post to this forum.  But in simple terms anytime timberland is withdrawn from production ( whether that land is in young growth or old growth) the total amount of timber overall that can be harvested annually on a sustainable basis must be reduced.

The operation at the port of Morrow is a chipping facility that takes cull logs & turns them into pulp chips.