new rubber and tire chains c5d

pinefeller · January 25, 2018, 06:50:53 PM

ok ive read every thread on this subject and have a few more pointed questions that need some resolution.
-im running 18.4-26 rubber, rf tire is 95%,rr is 50%, lf,lr are 20% econo rings front and rear, 5/8 ,9/16 respectively.
should i just suck it up and buy three new tires so they all match? save or sell the rest for spares? i can feel and see it binding not a big deal on snow with worn down chains but id like to go tight rings in the front and dd in the back... so heres the second part i need an answer for, are tight rings "tight" enough to get rid of the thumping lol....18.4-26's are pretty small in diameter. i cant find a picture of 18.4-26's with a set on them anywhere on the net. i also cant find a picture of dd's on 18.4's looks like everyone runs singles. id like to wrap the tire to protect it from rocks and i also want the weight on the rear....loading the rears isnt out of the question either.... want a smooth ride.
thanks guys....
fire away!!!!!

teakwood · January 25, 2018, 07:17:44 PM

I would put the two newer ones on the front axle and maybe buy two for the rears. ???

do you need new tires? or can you just pull new chains on?

pinefeller · January 25, 2018, 07:45:57 PM

the pictures make them look better than they are. in person there is like a 6'' difference between the old and new 1. with the no spins in the axles it really struggles to steer, and i know this is tire related. i have a Detroit in my pickup and it gets really po'd if my air pressures are off a couple pounds... i am considering just going for the two new on the back though, put the best ones in the front.....id just assume not bind up the drive-train if i can help it. not good for planetary's and driveshafts. have a a job coming up with a long skid...maybe

Firewoodjoe · January 25, 2018, 08:22:10 PM

We've ran bold tires with new tires. Never had a problem. If one blows they put one brand new Firestone on. I'd put the new tires on the back with a new set of ice chains and the old tires in front with your current ring chains. The load of the wood should make the back tires a little shorter. Always keep the best tires on the back taking the load. My opinion.

pinefeller · January 25, 2018, 08:48:19 PM

the econo rings are going, believe me anything faster than 3rd and you cant keep your teeth in your head, and head from making contact with the top of the cab for that matter lol if i was running open axles id be fine with the mismatched tires

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on January 25, 2018, 08:22:10 PM
We've ran bold tires with new tires. Never had a problem. If one blows they put one brand new Firestone on. I'd put

do you own the said machine? tires are cheap compared to driveline parts and much easier to source and replace.

teakwood · January 26, 2018, 06:30:42 AM

is the front axle fixed too??

mike_belben · January 26, 2018, 08:33:39 AM

I cant speak for skidders but i made this set of ring chains for small tractors with infinite tension adjustment, they can be so tight theyre silent and cant be budged on the tire. It just means youll be able to hear your brains being shook out.

Tension had no effect on ride quality, it was 100% dependant on the ground hardness. Anything frozen was terrible, anything spongy rode nice.

Firewoodjoe · January 26, 2018, 02:46:56 PM

I don't own the machines but work with the owner everyday. He runs them also. 5 skidders from 97-2010 and three have over 30,000 hours. only had engines. There isn't enough to differance to hurt anything I've also owned old skidders. Smaller ones. Iron mule and Deere 440s. Never paid attention to tire wear. But I understand the concern.

mike_belben · January 26, 2018, 04:44:14 PM

With a full locked differential carrier, every time you turn youre basically changing tire height. Two different track lengths that both go into and come out of a turn at the same point in time equals two different rotational speeds thoughout the turn.

Thats why locked axles just dont like to steer. The inner and outer wheels are prohibited from running at their own independant speed and thus resist the turn itself. Lockers wear tires, just a fact of life

pinefeller · January 26, 2018, 06:35:28 PM

no, lockers dont wear tires... operators do. if you lift of the skinny pedal just as you are going into a corner then ease back into it you can make them unlock. (Unloaded of course or semi coasting.) you have to understand how they work. makes maneuvering on the landing a little easier. a lot of older skidders dont have locking axles john deere's have a pedal you step on like a farm tractor. its basically impossible to steer a deer with the locker engaged. i had a n ahh-ha! moment running a 518 cat that had no spins ion it one day turning around after i dropped a hitch. i noticed if i lifted off the gas briefly then eased back into the throttle i could turn twice as tight and not tear the crap out of the field we were slashing in.

anyway back on subject... anyone running tight rings on 18.4-26? ive ran them on everything down to 28l's but the cute little 18-26 are just so small lol

Quote from: mike_belben on January 26, 2018, 08:33:39 AM
I cant speak for skidders but i made this set of ring chains for small tractors with infinite tension adjustment, they can be so tight theyre silent and cant be budged on the tire. It just means youll be able to hear your brains being shook out.

Tension had no effect on ride quality, it was 100% dependant on the ground hardness. Anything frozen was terrible, anything spongy rode nice.

i dont mean "tight", although that is generally good practice, i mean ring, 3 links ring,repeat...vs.5 (standard)ot 7 (economy) between rings.

Quote from: teakwood on January 26, 2018, 06:30:42 AM
is the front axle fixed too??

oh yeah... she pulls a mean hitch though ;D they are actually "no spins" or detroit lockers.

i want these guys for the rear any users? good bad?

mike_belben · January 27, 2018, 07:57:12 AM

Let me rephrase.. I shoulda said spools and welded carriers that cant unlock. I dont know whats in skidder axles. Have installed nearly every type in auto application and youre right most ratchet lockers can be coaxed to unlock pretty well.

Thanks for clarifying on the chains. The set that i made have no sidewall chains to dictate their size (hence the ropes tensioning.) They fit tires from 20" to about 45" by spacing the rings jammed together or farther apart. On a lawn tractor tire they were still pretty harsh despite the close spacing. It wasnt quite as terrible as the more sporadic lumping of bigger tire with bigger gaps. Perhaps wouldnt be so pronounced on skidder size, i dont know.

pinefeller · January 27, 2018, 08:47:52 AM

that was a great looking set of chains btw... judging by the pictures you are a good fabricator. I did find (finally) a picture online of a 440c with my size tire running tight rings they look like they shouldnt be too bad. rings are great brush choppers otherwise id do diamonds on all 4 corners.

mike_belben · January 27, 2018, 10:06:50 AM

Thanks, was a lot of acetylene and barstock on a few simple jigs. I had a burning desire to try them and ironically summer traction was SO much worse, it was a pretty big disappointment.

If i ever make more theyll be diamonds for certain.

pinefeller · January 27, 2018, 11:52:50 AM

wow really? are they loaded? they look like axle breakers lol..... i remember someone telling me once sheer size and tractor weight is probably the most important factor when skidding logs. chains really shine in rocks and slash especially when water and hills are involved.

mike_belben · January 28, 2018, 02:06:59 AM

It was on a garden tractor. The normal 26x12 rubber was loaded. The rings wouldnt clear fender on those so i tried with unloaded 23" tires and chains and it stunk. .switched back to one side with chain and one side without. The chained tire always always spun first and i pretty much put em away.

It was a 660lb machine stock. Id weigh as much as 1800 at a buddies sled pull and always won my class. You want so much weight on the drive tire that it compacts the ground under it. Max weight, max height and width and not enough power to spin it or flip over backwards. That was the recipe.

Chain always disturbed the soil under the tire then just churned it up. Now if i had to pull in something already sloppy and rutted yeah theyd help. But first pass across the forest the chains cut pull capacity in half. I was very surprised.

coxy · January 28, 2018, 03:52:14 PM

just asking why you want dd chains on such small tires most of your chain will still be new compared to the rest of it when its shot I run sd on 23.1-26 and get all the traction I need

pinefeller · January 28, 2018, 09:37:54 PM

wieght and tire protection. no? hey thats why im askin. seems like the biggest factor for most is inital cost. period. i had a buddy that pulled at least load a week for 15 years on an new set of canadian dds on 23.1x26. im figuring if i can cover the tread area maybe it wont tear up the tires so bad and more chains to spread the weight should help the chains last longer i dunno ive never had new tires or chains! and the extra weight might help the back from wagging its tail in the winter on ice lol. my current landing is unfortunately a slight uphill push to the road and a sheet of ice and it wont even go up unless i get a running start >:(. two more days and thats over with then on to a house lot job. I stumbled on the OFA site and their matti w2 (DD) look like they pretty much cover the tread area of the tire. the skidder pulls a pretty phenomenal hitch the way it is, but its real rough on hard ground with the economy spaced rings and is pretty useless on ice.

coxy · January 29, 2018, 06:55:33 AM

I don't have new tires I always figured chains where cheaper than tires ;D ring chains IMOP on frozen ground is money thrown in the trash in less you have a heavy machine I run studded year round in the summer I run them loose to clean them the rings will also plug up in the summer but they don't ride as ruff on soft ground

loggah · January 29, 2018, 07:38:55 AM

Put the better,even sized tires on the back,the others on the front,I ran studded double diamond all the way around on my grapple. but on a regular cable skidder studs on the rears ,ring chains on the front. Most all skidders dont care whats on the front when your pulling wood! ;D they dont have much weight on them. Don

pinefeller · January 29, 2018, 08:34:22 AM

finally! thanks loggah thats what i was looking for. with my current combo the machine actually crabs in the winter on ice trying to pull a big hitch :D plus the spinning and the bouncing seems like i will end up doing planetary work if i dont address this soon. nice grapple btw. when you get over 20,000 lbs and get into a grapple they are whole different animals. im just looking for every advantage i can give myself micro logging ;D i am pretty impressed so far with this machine. out pulls the 540b i run, decks way better, well built and easy to work on.

loggah · January 29, 2018, 09:08:19 AM

The only time i ever lost a centrax planetary in my c6d was pushing up some big logs in the yard, and that was not pushing them up square i was using the corner of the blade. never had a problem just pulling wood. Don

pinefeller · January 29, 2018, 10:31:02 AM

glad to know that. when i looked up the build sheet on the machine it actually has the same axles and winch as a c6 and a 5 speed with one less jug on the motor and the 18.4-26's it should be pretty bomb proof. ;D. why are there not more of these things around? they are so much better made than a deere or cat....or is that part of it...shhhh dont tell anyone!!! im hoping by the time time i need to do chains again ill have a grapple skidder. a 3 wheel shear is next on the list though.

coxy · January 29, 2018, 04:09:39 PM

Quote from: pinefeller on January 29, 2018, 10:31:02 AM
why are there not more of these things around? they are so much better made than a deere or cat....or is that part of it...shhhh dont tell anyone!!!

if they where built like a cat or deere they would still be around 8) 8) :D

loggah · January 29, 2018, 04:57:27 PM

They are a good old simple to work on skidder, but the old 518 cats are hard to beat to. I will say for the price of a cat 518 engine,converter,transmission overhaul ,you could buy 2 more c5 skidders !!! ;D The last guy i worked with is still running the 518 he bought new in the 70's and i know he has over 50,000 hrs on it. but 1 man ,1 skidder and service every 100 hrs. The tree farmers are the simplest old skidders out there. I got a complete 83 c6d chassis sitting on my property right now, maybe i'll do something with it this spring.

pinefeller · January 29, 2018, 05:43:24 PM

i looove 518s,(U-models) the Cadillac's of skidders, when i get a grapple thats what it will be. the old guy i started working for ran these. both have 40k+ hours and they purr like a ....cat lol. everything is easy to use and where it should be. plus the saw stays between your feet so you can keep track of it!

Quote from: coxy on January 29, 2018, 04:09:39 PM
Quote from: pinefeller on January 29, 2018, 10:31:02 AM
why are there not more of these things around? they are so much better made than a deere or cat....or is that part of it...shhhh dont tell anyone!!!
if they where built like a cat or deere they would still be around 8) 8) :D

so you mean if they stuffed a bunch of parts in a small metal can then welded the end up so you cant get to it? oh dont forget to paint it yellow and stencil on a deer. lol i was just recently reminded of this when i had to replace a shifter cable and it was 0 degrees out that was a blast. the thickness of steel, webbing and gusseting is insane on the 'farmer makes the deere look "chincy" i swear jd's come from the factory cracked because ive never seen one that hasnt been welded up and plated (they are quiet and shift nice though)

spoke to a dealer in vermont about the OFA chains he claims they are one of the best money can buy and will last forever.

so who carries a high quality tight ring for the front ? reviews? opinions? ill happily pay 25% more for 50% more chain life... ;)