Actual production #'s in CTL per day ?

[BargeMonkey]

 Can some of you guys give me some typical #'s per day both HW and SW ? How much is an average day for a dangle head in decent wood ? The guy working across from me says he is doing 30k in this scattered wood, says on a hammer job 50-70k a day is average, another guy with a big logmax claims up around 100k on a long day, does this sound nuts ? Can anyone tell me if it's worth cutting ahead wiith the buncher ? Bunch to the processor depending on terrain ?
Not going to get into a full blown equipment question 😂 but I'm waiting to hear from Cat on that 711TK harvester and a used 8wheeler out of ME. Other than watching one I don't have the foggiest clue on a harvester, got 2-3 jobs near Albany that are flat and decent wood, figured have them dropped there and use that as the trial and error job.
On sub-work how much per mbdft are you guys working for ? The guys next door are pretty decent and said they are wanting someone down this way for sub work, they bid ALOT of wood but hate the travel, not there yet but rolling the idea around.

[Skeans1]

The guys I'm around will cut a 100 acres or so at a time then process for 2 weeks max if that helps, we do everything on the landing.

[lopet]

What are you guys growing on hundred acres ?  Think Barge wants to hear some numbers about cords or board feet. 
I am not a ctl guy btw, so what do I know.

[BargeMonkey]

 Unfortunately down here jobs are 2 types, the 10-30-50 acre mixed lots or these mega lots coming out off the state or thru some of these foresters, I've honestly never cut over 180-200k ft on one job ever, the good wood doesn't exist down here in spots. Just trying to get a rough idea on bdft/ cords, I've talked to another FF member who has done a pulp contract, Finch wants me to go on contract for X loads per week of hemlock pulp and I'm just trying to rattle the #'s around, right now doing fulltree I would be hustling to even come close. Everyone can laugh, the CTL stuff is very uncommon down here except on the state jobs, cable skidders are 100/1 for forwarders around here still. 😂
On an average day in a 12 ton sized forwarder, decent wood and decent skid what do most guys put up ? 3-4 tractor trailer loads seem nuts for 8hrs ?

[4x4American]

Whats the advantage of going CTL compared to the norm around here?

[barbender]

Barge, our dangle head rubber tire machines cut anywhere from 30-100 cords per day depending on wood quality. Hardwood thinning, with hilly terrain is usually 50-80 cords. Keep in mind our wood is almost all cut 8'. Pre-bunching can be beneficial, not so much in a hardwood thin I don't think. We have one sub running a buncher in front of 2 Ponsse processors in aspen clearcuts. They are getting 250-400 cords a day, with a train of forwarders behind them. As far as forwarding, I've never worked around a 12 ton machine, ours are 16 and 18 metric tonne rated, with typical production in the 60-100 cords per 10 hour day. Remember again, this is 8' wood, if you were cutting longer wood the forwarder production will be higher.

[lopet]

Whats the advantage of going CTL compared to the norm around here?

It's about borrowing more money to make more or less money so you can pay back the borrowed money. 
What are you worried about, arn't you a little too old for that ?

If this is a inappropriate answer to this post please forgive me, I do inappropriate things once in a while, not that this is common thing, just once in a while.  ;D

[BargeMonkey]

Whats the advantage of going CTL compared to the norm around here?

Weather, daylight and insurance. The clean up on some of these jobs is also a killer, with a limber + slasher and room for a grapple your a 100x200 spot minimum which on these small jobs sometimes I don't have, trying to get away from the big headers and just a row of wood down the road if I can.

[Gary_C]

I agree with barbender and would add that with older slower harvesters, I've known guys that regularly do 40-60 cords per day in pulpwood.

I've done some hardwood thinnings and in high dollar hardwoods it's very difficult to properly buck for max value from the seat of a harvester. So what I've done is full tree delimb or delimb to the first big branch and then forward whole trees to the landing for hand bucking. Ya, I've hauled some forty footers and its not easy but doable. Have no idea of production rates and the work was done alone and in steps.

The other thing that can mess with your production rates is sorts when you are cutting multiple species. Forwarder operators love harvester operators that leave neat, sorted piles of logs.

[Gary_C]

Whats the advantage of going CTL compared to the norm around here?

It's the same difference as between a shovel and a backhoe. You don't need a backhoe if you are digging post holes or graves, but if you are digging ditches, you can't beat a backhoe.

[mike_belben]

in high dollar hardwoods it's very difficult to properly buck for max value from the seat of a harvester.

Theres a scaler that i chat with quite a bit who has commented to me on this a few times saying he buys from a few mechanized crews that could be getting $100-$200 more per load if they were cutting logs right. 

On big white oaks, especially staves, i sometimes roll a log over a few times and chop little hatchet marks at imaginary points to see where i can get the most out of.  I actually made up PVC sticks at the standard lengths for cutting ties.  Lay this one here between those crooks, now can i get one more if i cut there.. That sorta thing.  It brought my avg tie check up about 10 cents/bf.

[BargeMonkey]

Thank you guys 👍 again I ask dumb questions but CTL is a language I don't speak. The high grade stuff I will still get out of the cab and cut or top it and send it to the slasher. I'm taking these junk jobs everyone else turns down, around here most guys won't touch hemlock pulp, unless the firewood is nice they leave it in the woods, I'm tracking down these jobs with only 30k ft but 2-300 cord and some pulpwood, we have stayed 4-5k survey stakes behind all yr, there's money in lowgrade. Weather, insurance and amount of working hours are also a huge factor, it gets wet I shut down now unfortunately. Probably 80%+ of my customer base is out of NYC, the value of the logs isn't usually the motivating factor, they want you to start the job on Monday and be gone Friday. 😂 I recently upgraded my lowboy, can finally move a bigger machine with 24' of well, before with my other trailer it was like a monkey on a football even just moving my 230.

[starmac]

Barge, the logger I haul for doesn't even break out his lowboy, unless the whole operation is moving. The blade, skidder, D6, water truck, etc gets moved on his 30 foot 3 axle pintle hitch tilt deck. I just pull it for him behind my log truck. That trailer is handier than a shirt pocket.

[chevytaHOE5674]

In hardwood thinning I cut between 30 and 70 cord  of wood in a normal 8.5 hour day. That cordage is with the saw logs included also, with two sorts in the woods logs in one pile, pulp in the other.

My best day cutting nice softwood was over 120 cord with 9 hours in the seat.

As for bucking grade hardwood from the seat I did it all the time and we were contract cutting for a veneer mill and they were always pleased with the outcome. Sure there were a few miscuts but we made up for them in volume. In real nice stuff buck at the top end of your saw logs and process the pulp then pick the log up and bring it close and roll it around and buck accordingly.

[BargeMonkey]

wow. yeah thats throwing down some wood, again mechanical is pretty limited here so to talk that volume is huge. I've gotten out of the cab about 3x in the last 5yrs with the tape to log something up, 99% of it I'm doing just like you said and work from the top down, figure out how I can get the most out of it. 8-9-10s is basically all my sawlogs where anyway, a 12' if it made a nice sawlog and I had it left but wouldn't make veneer, unless it's for our sawmill I haven't shipped a 16' HW log in yrs.

[Skeans1]

You guys cut short logs our shortest logs we cut for hardwoods is 17'  but most mills have wanted 42' different areas but it's all the same, you guys buck just like here for the longest log with the least amount of defect for the most most money for everyone. Now to firs when I do bigger thins or clear cuts it's all about the longest log possible that exports which out here can be done CTL for your guys 75+ year old clear cuts, our stuff is bigger but the same but we're not allowed to leave materials in the woods even on state jobs unless required. One state style job I did the requirements were X amount of saw logs as well pulp per acre as well as snags in a 20 year old thinning here none of which is forestry here.

[mike_belben]

I only try to go long (16'6") if the whole tree is tie grade, because the switch ties pay about 10c/bf more than standard and theres not much scrutiny.  If it fails to make switch tie they pull it back to a 14' tie or maybe a 12' oh well i lose a dollar or two.   

In grade logs and stave they gey way pickier on me and ive found it best to cut 10's so there are less imaginary defects to pick apart but none of this "i cant sell 8 footers."  If they get a atleast 9'3 for a tie to go with the grade lumber i almost always get knocked to the bottom of the chart.  Nother bonus is short logs dont lose much footage from the taper, which can be pretty extreme in white oak on the plateau.  If the butt log looks great but the taper is terrible i will cut 8'3 so i get paid for atleast some of that flare.  2 foot longer would bring down a few inches of diameter and drop the whole log into a lower grade.  Say from prime B to prime C.  Even tho you give more wood you get less money.  Id rather cut that stub off and leave it to the next log up.   If the entire butt end is nothing special and all the same, i start at top and make sure the top log ends at the very minimum diameter sellable, 11 inch.  Scalers got a lot of little tricks here.. Is it like that for you guys too?


Sounds like CTL is what barge needs.  If youre constantly looking at jobs with wood that is only profitable by fast rates of harvest, i cant see any other way to take the job.  I have to turn all those down due to my snails pace.