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Notre Dame fire -

Started by btulloh, April 16, 2019, 09:21:54 AM

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btulloh

It's still hard to believe this has happened.  What a tremendous loss.  Visiting Notre Dame was one of the most awe-inspiring experiences I've ever had.  I hope their plans to repair and rebuild are successful.
HM126

Dave Shepard

The French Compagnons have one of the best preserved carpentry traditions in Europe. They can rebuild, and I'd be very surprised if they didn't. 
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doc henderson

laser engraved pics of my buddy, RN and marine corps dude and his fiancé last march.  



 



 

some things are like old friends and relatives, better see them while you still can.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Woodpecker52

Looks like most damage was above the ceiling and only water damage below. Timber and frame of roof lattice etc and spire only things damaged.  They should be able to repair.   Not like our modern buildings where one roof leak and everyone freaks out and wants to tear down a building.  Most towns the most historic buildings are courthouse and churches,  what historic buildings will they remember  our generation for, WALMART BOX STORES!
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Bandmill Bandit

The french government has already committed to rebuild/restore the Church. There will be an OFFICIAL method for the general public world wide to make donations BUT that has not yet been established. DONT get fooled by some scam site.  
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
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thecfarm

I felt sad when I saw it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Southside

I read it took 13,000 oak trees for the timber frame construction.
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White Oak Meadows

Bruno of NH

The craftsman ship that was lost is sad.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

CJennings

It was painful to watch the coverage. 

I've been reading statements in many articles that they don't believe the trees needed for the timbers exist anymore. That got my forestry mind to thinking. I have to think that's not true if they look beyond France's boundaries. The oak forests of Germany, eastern Europe, or if not there, white oak here in North America, I would think, would contain suitable timber with some searching. I doubt every timber needed will come from the same stand or even same country. It does drive home how much the world has changed, and its forests have changed, over the past 800 years.

Ianab

Don't think they will be able to rebuild in the same way, if the trees did exist, they would be in some National Park, and be considered a significant treasure in their own right. I'd be thinking along the lines of gluelamm beams, maybe with Oak cladding, for the look? The skills to build that exist, Air NZ has just ordered a new maintenance hanger, wooden framed arches, and big enough to park a couple of B777s beside each other.

And maybe plumb in some sprinklers at he same time?
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Al_Smith

I can't help but wonder exactly how they first fell and transported the oak .I'm not sure if a cross cut saw even existed that long ago .So what,broad axes ?.
Were the main timbers solid  or spliced like building wooden ships ?A lot of questions .
Will they try to rebuild with a lead roof ?
Some of the "skill set" has became a lost art .Leaded  stain glass windows .The process of lead wiping which most likely was   how the roof was installed .
It will be a long rebuilding process and might take decades .They say it took about 200 years the first go around but methods have changed in 800 years .

moodnacreek

Back when I started sawing the bellsaw news did an article on a mill out west that sawed a 110' beam. That sounds like Hull Oaks sawmill, still sawing today. I wonder how long the oak beams lost in Notre Dame where. We may have oak trees tall enough here in the east.

Raider Bill

The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

Southside

I have to think the trees are there to purchase and the skilled labor is there to build it, but what comes to mind is the 5 year window of completion that has been promised.  Guess it would be a good time to be in the Vacuum kiln business as those timbers will have to be dried some fast.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Ron Wenrich

I read the biggest timbers were about 2'x2'x20'-30'.  I think they can find those oaks in the US forests.  To make a timber of that size, you would need about a 34" diameter log, on the small end.  Not all the timbers needed would be that big.

I also remember seeing a German forester talking about white oak management with their maturity size of about 36" dbh.  Seems that they should be able to find enough timber to do a restoration.

They said it took about 52 acres of timber and 13,000 trees.  That's 250 trees/acre.  That's some pretty heavy stocking.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

clww

I visited there at least 20 years ago. Everything in the giant European Old world cathedrals is epic. I shed more than one tear as I watched it destroyed by the fire.
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CJennings

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on April 17, 2019, 05:24:07 PM
I also remember seeing a German forester talking about white oak management with their maturity size of about 36" dbh.  Seems that they should be able to find enough timber to do a restoration.  
One of my professors 4 years ago had photos he took of the Spessart oaks in Germany. Same species of oak as in France as I understand it. They were massive! 36" diameters like you say are common. The German foresters have a lot less problems than we do using long rotations, up to 300 years on oak. They basically ignore a lot of the financial considerations we have to consider here on rotation length, which their different history of ownership, laws, and management allow. They want to grow very high quality trees and they do. 
I think the timber exists. I'm sure the skills exist. Modern sawmills will make quicker work of making those beams than hewing did. But it does look like some want a more fire-proof roof frame over there. I was surprised there wasn't a functional sprinkler system in the attic. 

Raider Bill

Nobody knows how the fire started but Quasimodo has a hunch.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

low_48

Can you imagine if this boils down to some guy with a torch soldering some copper flashing during the restoration? How would you like to be that guy?  3 of the top 4 wealthiest charity organizations in the world are Catholic. Catholic Church (Vatican) is worth $30 billion, Catholic Church (Germany) $25 billion, and Catholic Church (Australia) $20.9 billion. I think they can afford the rebuild.

petefrom bearswamp

DanG Raider, you beat me to it.
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Raider Bill

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on April 19, 2019, 07:11:32 AM
DanG Raider, you beat me to it.
I wasn't going to say it but the devil made me do it. smiley_bat_morph smiley_devil smiley_gorgeous
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

curved-wood

It is a very impressive building, huge in size... masters of the stone buildings. 
A building with a quite impressive history. Actually it was never finish! The 2 front towers have their top almost square but the original design was calling for sharp and high tower like in the Chartres cathedral. It was never finish because the project was so long to built and people were not there anymore and had enough of the bills !
A very good book about that era is from Viollet-Le-Duc : Dictionnaire raisonné de l'architecture française. Very nice drawings
Millions are pouring in from the french rich families and the public all over the world. Not sure if the churches money will be needed
 

Bruno of NH

I'm Catholic 
I renovated and took care of the The Catholic Student Center at Dartmouth Collage for 8 years. 
The church doesn't like to spend money. 
I have a bad taste in my mouth from how my building management contract was terminated.
Let's just say I don't go to church anymore.
I believe in my own way by how I treat others. 
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

thecfarm

I have projects like that too. :D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

low_48

Quote from: Bruno of NH on April 19, 2019, 08:16:54 AM
I'm Catholic
I renovated and took care of the The Catholic Student Center at Dartmouth Collage for 8 years.
The church doesn't like to spend money.
I have a bad taste in my mouth from how my building management contract was terminated.
Let's just say I don't go to church anymore.
I believe in my own way by how I treat others.
We latter found out the priest that married us, also molested my wife's brother when he was a young altar boy. How that man could look us in the eye is beyond comprehension! I am no longer a Catholic.

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