2019 Tractor logging

[woodroe]

After careful deliberation and research I've decided to cut my own
White Pine crop. I need the money and a newer if not new tractor and probably will get a
3 pt logging winch to boot. Getting older so want to make it as pain free and safe as possible
within price range of course.
Some of the single 16' logs will go over 2k lbs and have some slope coming out
probably 15* . Looking at about 50 mbf total if I take some under 18" for thinning.
This all will probably get done over a few leisure years with any luck. It is retirement
after all.

So, there are a lot of different brands on the market relatively close by, within 50 miles.
Massey Ferguson, Kubota, Kioti , New Holland, Mahindra, JD of course,
LS, Have I forgotten any ? Wow, lot to choose from, many different features.
No down payment and 0% financing on many of those.

Don't plan on pushing the equipment too hard and thinking a 40-45 hp 4x4 w/loader
would do the trick. Most of the wood is within 1k ft of the landing so not a long haul.

I've done some wheelies with my old JD M bless her heart coming out with logs in the past foot on the clutch etc but those days are over, life is getting short enough.
looking for all the weight I can get in that hp range . Most of the specs in that range
are around 3300-3800 lb. w/o loaded tires. A winch would add some weight.

I would be interested in hearing from some tractor loggers with experience on some of these newer tractors both good and bad if anyone knows about them

Thanks

[moodnacreek]

The biggest 4x4, name brand, dealer close by you can afford.

[thecfarm]

First off get loaded tires,second get a winch,third have you looked at used? I bought a 8 year old tractor with only 800 hours on it. Get the ag tires,if buying new. I have the R4,remember I bought it used. Not happy with them. It does ok,but the only good thing about them,it packs down a new filled in area real nice. :  I've had ags in the woods and I can do good,the r4s I have to do things diffeant.
Kubota got sent down the road for me. I got tired of waiting 2 weeks for parts,this was in Dixfield and Auburn. I have a NH and I can get parts in 3 days,right at my doorstep. I suppose you know Dave Archer? I suppose he is still working for Karmer's in Sydney. Been a few years since I needed parts. This was not on the tractor either,just mowing stuff.
Using a tractor is slow in the woods. But you are getting all the money,so that helps. I use to cut up any limbs that I was leaving in the woods about 2 feet long. Yes,that takes time,but allows me to drive over my slash. With the knolls,rocks and leave trees,it's hard to get around my land.  
Need to contact the state forestry dept in Augusta about an Intent to Harvest form. Very easy form to fill out. Contact whatever sawmill you want to sell too and get a spec sheet.
At least,bigger is better,4 wd,40 hp.No way would I want a 30hp in the woods. I have a 30hp,for the wife and I have a 40 hp,for me and there is a big size diffance in NH.
I also run 6 slides too. Yes,when I was cutting for logs,most times only one or two was used,but sometimes all 6 was used too.
Never pull at a sharp angle with a winch. You can tip the tractor over.

[woodroe]

Kramer's has a nice looking used 35hp MF for sale but want to get to at least a 40hp, maybe 45 even. Can't say as I've been there before.

As for that dixfield outfit, they can't be bothered to 
call me back on a price for a new tractor. So much for them.




  

[Southside]

Make sure you get plenty of belly pan guarding, hose protection, good insurance on the glass and oh - will AAA cover a tractor in the woods when you get a flat?  

Have you thought about looking at an older, but running, skidder or crawler?  You can sell it for what you pay for it when you are done.  Even being extra careful I think you run a very high risk of tearing up a new tractor working it in the woods and having it be worth a whole lot less than what you would still owe on it.  

There is a very good reason forestry equipment has ROPS, FOPS, full belly pans, covered hydraulic hoses, glazing guards, etc all the way around them and farm tractors do not.  Just up the road a few miles a retired home owner was taking down a pine, not really big maybe 16" DBH at most, using his open station Kubota, something went wrong and the tree pinned him to the steering wheel.  His family found him there, he was pronounced DOA at the hospital.  

I've had dead tops fall onto my feller buncher and they rock that 48,000 lb machine like it was a Tonka toy, had that been a tractor, no chance of survival.    

[Haleiwa]

You can drive a nail with the side of an axe, but that doesn't mean you should.   For what you will spend on a new little tractor you can buy an older skidder. Safer and more productive

[TKehl]

Have you thought about looking at an older, but running, skidder or crawler?

X3.  Since it will just be at one property, you don't have to worry about transport other than delivery, unless it will need significant service.  Its the right tool for the job and old cable skidders can be had pretty cheap.  

Pretty easy to poke a branch through a tractor radiator even being careful.  Ask me how I know.  :D

[Ed_K]

 A lot of the new tractors have plastic fuel tanks hanging off the side of the tractor almost to the ground, not a good thing. That's why I bought the Landini 4x4 60 hp with beet juice in the tires, an loader. 3pt tajfun winch 9k pull. It's worked good for me for 15 yrs.

[thecfarm]

Ed how right you are. Seem like some brands started that before some brands have. Also some of those filters,on a hydro, are quite low too.   I know one guy had a hydro and he somehow broke the filter twice on that thing.
I am rough and hard on things,but as I posted,I cut my limbs short. Which does take time. 

[Nebraska]

Agree on the beet juice in the tires, doesn't eat rims if the tube leaks, great ballast.. Use it in both my tractors.

[woodroe]

That Landini sounds like a great setup w/plenty of power. Hard to find one in these 
parts probably. Hadn't even heard of them before now so had to look it up.

I've got the calcium juice in my tractor tires now all around, big help but messy and corrosive 
if not installed carefully. Never had a blowout with one but heard about a couple.
Huge help with traction though. I've had one of my rear rims patched up once 
due to corrosion and also some around the valve stems on front.
Would probably ask for beet juice in the future.  

[g_man]

I have a Kubota M5640 no frills gear drive tractor with a Farmi JL501 winch that works good for me. The way it is set up with a loader/log grapple, 500 lb winch, and loaded tires it weighs 7500 lbs. 1500 in the loaded 16.9 X 28  tires. The heavier and the wider the better for safety and traction. The only under armor I have is a box around the hydraulic filters which are fairly low and pretty exposed. It is not delicate underneath like some of the newer tractors but I need more protection especially under the motor/radiator. I manage by spending a lot of time on slash management and job planning to avoid having to drive over or move to much slash. I keep my tractor roads clear of slash and keep the tractor on the roads as much as possible.  I couldn't imagine not having a winch. So like Ray said it is slow work but that suits me fine. I would call my rig adequate for the size wood you are talking. Not overly capable at all especially considering your 15* slopes. Yes you can do it with a 40 hp tractor if that is your best option. But if woods work is your main goal I would try to go bigger/heavier as most have said or insinuated above. A lot depends on your site characteristics. Lay of the land, tree spacing, trail system, what you want to leave for a residual forest, etc.



 



 



 

Only my opinion but hope it helps.

gg

[moodnacreek]

G man, nice to see your photos of professionally cut saw logs. It always bothers me to see hacked up wood.

[repmma]

If your going with a tractor id look into the NH Workmaster 50 or bigger.  Also John Deere 5000 series.  G_man's Kubota is probably in the same class.  More of a utility tractor, larger front tires and more weight.  My Ford 5030 is about like a Workmaster 70 and will pull some decent wood.  But it still doesnt compare to my TJ 225 for performance and safety... or price vs a new (even used) tractor!

[woodroe]

Nice set up g man . Thanks for the comments.
My lot is well suited for a tractor with 6' wide roads and bridge all in place.
My plan is to start in the back and work my way out alleviating a lot of the brush
to run over . No rocks to speak of as most of the land was cleared at one time.
If I had more land and wood to harvest I would consider a skidder but with only 24 acres
to manage probably not going to happen so you guys pushing skidders can save your typing.
No disrespect of course.
Besides I've got plenty of other things a tractor/loader can do for me that a skidder can't do.

[Ed_K]

 Look to Canada for landini's. When I thought mine was stolen and I started looking for a replacement there was a lot of new an used one's up there.

[Bruno of NH]

Zetor makes some nice tractors set up for woods work.
A FF sponsor sells them in Canada 

[Blackcanyon]

I have chimed in on this topic before and hear and respect all others opinions. One thing I hear and wholeheartedly agree with is that 40 horse is about minimum. One thing I like about a loader tractor is you can buck and stack logs neatly in a small space. As a whole pine logs get bucked at longer lengths for sale and it will require a decent size loader to handle them. Tractors also fill other voids. That being said they are NOT like a skidder! Only you know what you need most. Good luck and enjoy your project!

[JesseA]

Just to add to what south side said, think about the most fragile component of a tractor, and it's always the hunk of meat sitting in the seat. 

My rock crawler has a 4 post cage and I'm guilty of parking it too close to a tree I was cutting. The cage above the drivers seat took a direct hit with a 10 inch dbh dead spruce.  Put a sweep in the roof tube and gave me a lot more respect for what I'm working with. Would have killed me dead without the cage or without the plastic roof panel. 
I'm usually ok with playing into the gray area safety wise, but I'd hate to see anyone buy "more" of a tractor with less rope/fops because of the budget.  

Also, while it is different because of weight distribution tires, Ect I'd buy the biggest one you swing and hopefully can move yourself. My buggy is ~3700lbs and I wish it were a lot heavier pretty often. 

[livemusic]

I have a Kubota M5640 no frills gear drive tractor with a Farmi JL501 winch that works good for me. The way it is set up with a loader/log grapple, 500 lb winch, and loaded tires it weighs 7500 lbs. 1500 in the loaded 16.9 X 28  tires. The heavier and the wider the better for safety and traction. The only under armor I have is a box around the hydraulic filters which are fairly low and pretty exposed. It is not delicate underneath like some of the newer tractors but I need more protection especially under the motor/radiator. I manage by spending a lot of time on slash management and job planning to avoid having to drive over or move to much slash. I keep my tractor roads clear of slash and keep the tractor on the roads as much as possible.  I couldn't imagine not having a winch. So like Ray said it is slow work but that suits me fine. I would call my rig adequate for the size wood you are talking. Not overly capable at all especially considering your 15* slopes. Yes you can do it with a 40 hp tractor if that is your best option. But if woods work is your main goal I would try to go bigger/heavier as most have said or insinuated above. A lot depends on your site characteristics. Lay of the land, tree spacing, trail system, what you want to leave for a residual forest, etc.



 



 



 

Only my opinion but hope it helps.

gg

g_man, what do you do with logs like that? Do those go to a small lumber mill or just what? Is that your truck or will someone haul 'just' two logs? Any idea how much those two logs would bring in pay? You sure have a nice road! Always curious what people do to get paid for logs on their small operations, as I am in same situation.

[woodroe]

The way it seems to work around here if you want to sell to one of the bigger sawmills is you contact a local lumber mill or two and speak to a log buying representative . They will come out to your property look at your trees and tell you what they will pay for them . So much $ for select, so much $ for #2 stuff etc.
Depends on the quality of your trees what they will pay.
You can google your local commercial sawmills and and maybe find who to contact regarding log buyers.

[g_man]

We have a log yard 7 miles away. It is owned and operated by a local guy who couldn't be better to work with. There is no minimum delivery. For some species he is the buyer for white pine, however, Hancock Lumber out of Maine is the buyer and they purchase logs delivered to the yard. Hancock is presently paying $260/MBF straight through for saw logs at that yard.Spec: !2' to 16' length, 8" min top, 3" max red, knot 2" max black knot.  This load on my one ton was 760 BF - so just shy of $200.  As you can see it would be better for me if they would take 10 footers.





Edit: This is the Spruce/Fir pile at the log yard and they are the buyer. So you can see they handle a lot of wood for a family operation.



   

gg

[livemusic]

We have a log yard 7 miles away. It is owned and operated by a local guy who couldn't be better to work with. There is no minimum delivery. For some species he is the buyer for white pine, however, Hancock Lumber out of Maine is the buyer and they purchase logs delivered to the yard. Hancock is presently paying $260/MBF straight through for saw logs at that yard.Spec: !2' to 16' length, 8" min top, 3" max red, knot 2" max black knot.  This load on my one ton was 760 BF - so just shy of $200.  As you can see it would be better for me if they would take 10 footers.





Edit: This is the Spruce/Fir pile at the log yard and they are the buyer. So you can see they handle a lot of wood for a family operation.



  

gg

Nice to see dollars associated with logs for the uninformed like me! What is the approx. diameter of the logs on your truck? That's about $65 per 12' log. I am always curious about "I wonder how much that tree is worth!" (When looking at a live tree.)
The tree(s) those logs came from, how tall and what is DBH, do you know? Just curious how much you could earn out of one tree as an example.
When you say red and black knots, what does that mean?
Does your area have hardwoods?

[g_man]

How much a tree is worth is a complicated question. And one of the first things you will learn is that the value of similar trees varies tremendously with location because the value depends on what marketing outlets are available at the trees location.

Those logs came from one tree that was 27" DBH and was about 90' tall. The diameters of the 3 logs measured inside the bark at the small end (top) were 23", 21", and 21".  If I shipped those same logs over to a big mill in Maine where instead of a straight thru spec on pine  they break it down into saw log grades: Select, No. 1, No. 2, and No. 3. Last I new Select payed $450/MBF , No. 1 $350..... ect. Two of those logs would make No. 1 and the other No. 2. So that tree would be worth quite a bitr more in Maine only a couple hundred miles away. Or somewhere else there may be no interest in pine lumber at all and they would make those logs into chips or shavings at $14 a ton so about $35 for that load.

What I'm trying to say is besides knowing the tree you also have to know the markets available and how much it will cost to get the tree out of the woods to the market place before you know its value.

Take a look at some spec sheets from a local mill or yard. Or OnLine like NorthEast Log Buyers or a local one to you would be better. Read a book Like "Working with Your Woodland - A Landowners Guide" by Mollie Beattie, Charles Thompson, and Lynn  Levine to get started understanding some of this stuff. 

gg

[g_man]

Oh I forgot the knots. That spec pertains only to white pine around here. If you trim a live branch from a pine you will see a tight red knot on the log which will appear in the lumber. If you trim a dead branch, and dead branches tend to persist rather than fall off on pine, you will see a black knot which may become loose and don't look as good as red when the log is sawn into boards so they are less desirable.

gg