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mold and degrade on oak boards

Started by paul case, June 13, 2011, 08:41:49 AM

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paul case

heres the trouble. on newly sawn oak boards i have a problem with mold growing on them quickly this time of year. hot weather and dead stacked boards causes it in only a couple of days. this causes a slow down for some folks because the ones buying their lumber are only take delivery certian days of the week. the ones i sell to dont want it stickered. i want to deliver a good product and get a good price for it.
i have talked with a few folks on here about mold and how to prevent it on oak boards. some respond with a product and some with a home remedy.
i may have to experiment with some things to find out what works. i worry a little about spraying them with any kind of solution or bleach water, that it may change the coloror cause other problems. i thought about surface drying, but that would take a lot of extra handling.
what are you doing to control mold on green lumber that may help me? thanks.  pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

ely

i sticker all my lumber and run a fan on it part time. its just part of sawing lumber.

smwwoody

We spray our lumber with a product called Sta-Brite. Oak will keep at least 2 or more weeks dead stacked this way

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

tcsmpsi

Normally dead stacked fresh sawn here, this time of year, in 2 days, it would all become one huge mass of infidelity.   :D

Sticker sooner than possible, and get some air movement.  Hardwoods will usually take to that pretty well.

Pine?   :D  In the warmer months, I won't even sticker it anymore without spraying it with bleach solution, both sides and edges.  I've seen mold/mildew start to form a couple of hours off the saw. 
\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Tom

I agree with tcsmpsi.

You're better off stickering it if it is to be dead-stacked more than two days.  It's advisable to sticker the same evening as you saw it.  The only real way to stop that mold is to get the surface of the lumber dry.

smwwoody

Sta brite works. You can dead stack pine and let it set for at least 2 weeks without any problem. Some of us do too large a volume to sticker every day and then stack it back down before shipping. It would cost way too much

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

Tom

Yep!  That's pretty busy.  Good for you, for your success.  That's a real goal to reach  :)

smwwoody

Tom
I wasn't trying to be smart with my last post. I hopoe you didn't take it that way. I was just trying to let PC know that stickering is not the only answer like everyone is saying it is. Some hard wood buyers will not buy lumber that has been stickered. Most production mills spray or dip their lumber unless they are putting it in their own kiln.

Pc
Sta-brite does not effect color on oak maple poplar hickory walnut cherry  or white pine. That is all I have personally used it on 

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

Tom

Nope, not taken that way at all.  I admire those who become successful beyond their dreams.  :)

Ron Wenrich

We use Sta-Brite on tulip poplar.  We have to watch on some of the maples, since folks on the other end say they want no sprays.  A lot seems to be on whether they are doing clear finish or not.  Its different with certain buyers, so its good to know your buyer specs ahead of time.  We aren't spraying oak at this time.  But, we do for wood that is going to be left in the yard for a while.  We usually saw and haul within a week or less.

Sta-Brite will help on the blue stain.  But, blue stain happens predominately in the sapwood.  The white woods are a lot of sap, so they have a tendency to stain more.  Oak doesn't have as much sap, so it doesn't get black as quickly. 

I've always been told that when the blue stain gets in the log, its too late for the lumber.  You can smell tulip poplar spoil in the summertime. 

For the whitewoods, we will sticker and skin dry.  That usually took care of the stain in the bundles.  It takes time, but the alternative is having your good lumber drop down to 2C.  Our stickering wasn't top notch since it was only temporary, not for drying wood.  There are some cost factors, but not that great.

Price for Sta-Brite is about $383/5 gal.  You dilute to 1 gal/200 gal water.  20 gal of solution per Mbf of 4/4 lumber.  Figure an extra $10/Mbf
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

red oaks lumber

really how much wood can a small bandmill cut in a day? 1-1500bf, sticker as you pull from the mill no double handling. dead stack the morning your going to deliver, easy way to have peace of mind. trying to spray each board sounds like a pita ;D
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

paul case

wow thats high in the bucket but i guess it goes a long way?
the outfit i am selling to dont want it stickered. anytime. well by me anyway. they usually sticker it as soon as they get it so i dont know what would make the diference if i stickered it and then dead stacked it  before i deliver it. yes the sawdust is usually all off the lumber by the time it gets stacked and that seems to help.
the problem with the output on my mill is i am trying to tie the heart of the logs and they usually vary from 14 to 24'' in diameter. so i get a little lumber along.i might get 600 to 800 ft of lumber for a bundle of ties and now that it is summer i cant cut everyday. sometimes just in the mornings.
it is an ongoing thing for me to encounter the same problems over and over again. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

smwwoody

Red oaks

we average a little over 12,000bf/day on our 2 band mills.  spraying is no problem.  stack a layer grab the spray gun that is hanging overhead and spray that whole layer then stack another layer and repeat.  The spray nozzle is hanging by a spring just above head height when you are done with it just let go and it pops back up out of the way

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

Ron Wenrich

We spray ours as we finish a layer.  We use portable sprayers.  The batch is mixed in a 55 gal drum.  Sta Brite will work as a contact spray between the layers.  I've seen really big mills use a dip tank off the mill on on the green chain.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

bandmiller2

Paul, have you talked to the big customer that dosen't want you to sticker and find out why??Mayby they have had a bad experiance with some outher mill and poor stickering.I would say dry stickers,well supported pile,with a fan would be the cure. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Peter Drouin

where do you buy sta brite  thanks
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

smwwoody

The company name is ISK Biocides. PM me for a phone number if you need it

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

paul case

i did ask the buyer if i could sticker the pile and then take them out but she no. as with any big outfit they dont have to give an answer. the buyer said they didnt want them stickered under any circumstances.
there is another buyer that doesnt care if you sticker the pile but he doesnt pay extra for fas. his pricing is for #1 com and down. pc
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Peter Drouin

Woody,   the one I found says it is waterbased and has a pigment, also mix 1 to 7.  Made for cedar shingle roof.  Is this what you are using???
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

smwwoody

I will get the specs from a bucket. We mix 50:1
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

smwwoody

The one we use is Sta-Brite P. The label says for the control of sap stain and mold in freshly cut lumber and timbers. For up to 8/4 lumber they recommend mixing at 200:1 with water

Woody   
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

Bibbyman

We never stick lumber.  Well,  I shouldn't say never.  End of last week we got a couple of good orders - one for 3x4s 8' and another for 4x10s 10'.  We sawed the 3x4s out of red oak and the 4x10s out of white oak.  

We would normally saw flooring lumber off the outsides when we needed to so as to not waste lumber.  Then we would finish out the bundles of flooring lumber and make a run to the market.  But we had a short vacation planned and wouldn't get back to sawing for a week.   So we jumped in and sticked this lumber.  

We've talked to the buyer before and he said others sticked and accumulated a load.   I wouldn't want to make a habit of sticking lumber just to hold it for a few days or a week.





Note the rack of 6x6s on top and well under roof so in shade most of the day.





Here is the lazy way.  We've found when we just happen to make one of these and two of those, we just pitch them in a loose pile.   They get enough air to keep from molding.  When we get to where we're making flooring of that lenght, we pick though the pile and retrieve these boards.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

tyb525

I stick my lumber, unless it'll be picked up or used green within a few days. It just seems to stay a lot straighter than dead stacked, and mold isn't a huge issue up here, but it can happen after awhile in the summer.
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

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