WM LT28 Super Sale?

[LoomBuilder]

I'm still researching and looking for a sawmill and today Wood-Mizer announced special pricing on the LT28 but I'm just not sold on the package (so to speak).  At $9995 plus $995 for the log deck package it's quite a bit more than an LT15GO and I'm not sure the extra capacity is worth the price. And there are quite a few used mills out there (LT30's, LT15's) for a lot less that would give me most of the same capabilities as the LT28.  Am I missing something critical in evaluating the LT28?  I know Wood-Mizer is an excellent organization that produces great products but this just seems like a steep price for a manual mill.

I suppose it's also worth noting that you can get a brand-new portable mill in roughly the same capacity class for less than the LT28.  Quality Manufacturing appears to be producing the Woodchuck mill again (there's one brand-new on eBay for $4k) and the EZ Boardwalk Jr is very highly regarded and falls in the same price range (about $4600 with the trailer package).  And if I wanted to go with Wood-Mizer the LT15 is on sale, I could use the Load Assist to move it when I need to, and the trailer can be added later.  It's a shame the LT10 isn't portable as it would probably suit my needs just fine.

So it seems there are lots of choices out there for a solid, reasonably priced mill for someone like me, a woodworker looking to provide my own stock and saw a log or two here and there for others.  While I'd love a full hydraulic setup and to saw for others at least part time that's not going to happen in the near term so I'm focused on a simple, yet portable manual mill.  I don't want to overlook the LT28 but I just don't see how it's worth more than 2x the price of the others.

Any thoughts or advice from the forum would be appreciated!

Larry

[beenthere]

Larry
It is a real teaser, isn't it.
Looking back at your posts, which mill has been a quandry for you. This reduced price makes it tougher.
But in the end, it is your money and can always wait for a better deal to pop up. ;)
Good luck making the tough choice.

Do people buying looms have the same quandry?

[dgdrls]

Good morning Larry,

When I was shopping for a band mill the 28 was at the lop of the pile,
It offers the canti style head,
the same bed as the LT 40.
powered head option.

these differences alone IMHO put it in a class ahead
of the 2 post WM 10 and 15.   

Capacity wise, yes it is matched by others for a bit less $$$  but you will not get the
same design features

DGD

[WoodenHead]

When I was looking for a mill a couple years ago I originally was going to buy an LT15 (once my mind was made up that I was going to buy a Woodmizer  ;D).  The LT28 happened to be on sale and I bought it instead and I have never regretted doing so (and I bought it for more than it is currently on sale for  ;)).  Perhaps pricing has changed, but by the time you add all the features on to the LT15, the price creeps up close to the LT28.  The LT28 is built on the same frame as the LT35/LT40 manual (i.e. solidly built).  The used market will generally get you more value for your money.

One other consideration is whether you wish to be mobile or stationary.  The LT15 offers more power options (in terms of engine) particularly if you want a stationary setup.  Personally electric is my preferred power choice.  But the cantilever design of the LT28 is definitely a major advantage and that won me over despite my preference. 

[Bibbyman]

The LT10 is very portable in that it breaks down into small units.  The heaviest being the engine (I think).  Hang the frame sections on the garage wall and takes up about as much room as a lawn mower. 

[Happycamper]

I mounted my mill on a boat trailer that was given to me and it serves me well.
                                     Jim 

 

[Qweaver]

I started with a completely manual LT15 and struggled with turning big logs for years.  The LT28 still works much better with 2 people but log turning, power feed, and toe boards make sawing much easier and faster.  Being portable is a huge plus also.   I wish I had bought the LT28 to start with!

[dboyt]

Loombuilder, looks like you've got an interesting business.  A sawmill will certainly give you a lot of options in terms of the wood available to you.  There are several manufacturers of band mills who sponsor Forestry Forum.  Doesn't cost anything to get literature, and look at Youtube videos.  Looking forward to hearing what you decide on.

[barbender]

It all comes down to what you are sawing and where- if you are just cutting for yourself for woodworking and not mobile, if your logs are small to medium an LT10 should suit you fine, bigger wood an LT15, and if you go mobile an LT28 hands down. The LT28 is so much easier to set up. I actually started out looking for a used LT15, missed a couple, and somehow ended up with an LT40 super ;D I don't know how I got that past my wife :D When I'm sawing 18' 24" diameter red pine I'm glad I got this one.

[thecfarm]

In my eyes the LT28 does not even begin to compare to the 10 or 15.  I'm kinda rough on stuff and I would get the LT28. With the $3000 off,that's a good deal.

[LoomBuilder]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies here in the forum and via PM.  I knew this group would have lots of great information and advice and I really appreciate everyone taking time to share their thoughts.  I have a better understanding now of the benefits of the LT28 over the 2-post (Whoops! It's 2 posts not 4! Sorry about that!) LT10 and LT15 models.  The issue for me remains price and I think I'd rather be in the $4k - $7k range than in the $10k plus that the LT28 will reach with the addition of the log deck package.  You've all given me lots to consider, from continuing to shop for a used, perhaps older, but more capable unit like an older LT30 or even LT40 to putting the LT10 on a spare trailer.  I'll keep on looking and see what comes up.

To give you a bit more context for my search, I build custom weaving looms (a very niche market!) using only hardwoods, primarily cherry and walnut these days.  We had some trees removed from our yard and I immediately coated the ends with AnchorSeal (from my chainsaw milling days... I still have the Alaskan/066 combo but I think it's a little too back-breaking for me now!).  I've got 30 logs all bucked to around 8' since that would cover the longest pieces of my looms allowing lots of excess for milling the boards to final specs.  The largest is a maple around 24" diameter but they're mostly in the 14-17" range.  I'd like to be able to make use of all this wood and that's why I'm looking more seriously for a mill.  If I do buy one a solar kiln would be the next project but I can wait to air dry this batch OR there's a kiln nearby that could dry the lumber for me.  Realistically, I could saw way more lumber than I'd use in the loom business but I just enjoy all aspects of working with wood and wouldn't mind converting logs to lumber from time to time both for me and for other woodworkers here in my area.

Again, thanks for all the great ideas and helpful advice.  I'll let you know which direction I take whenever I actually make a decision!

Larry

[dgdrls]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies here in the forum and via PM.  I knew this group would have lots of great information and advice and I really appreciate everyone taking time to share their thoughts.  I have a better understanding now of the benefits of the LT28 over the 4-post LT10 and LT15 models.  The issue for me remains price and I think I'd rather be in the $4k - $7k range than in the $10k plus that the LT28 will reach with the addition of the log deck package.  You've all given me lots to consider, from continuing to shop for a used, perhaps older, but more capable unit like an older LT30 or even LT40 to putting the LT10 on a spare trailer.  I'll keep on looking and see what comes up.

To give you a bit more context for my search, I build custom weaving looms (a very niche market!) using only hardwoods, primarily cherry and walnut these days.  We had some trees removed from our yard and I immediately coated the ends with AnchorSeal (from my chainsaw milling days... I still have the Alaskan/066 combo but I think it's a little too back-breaking for me now!).  I've got 30 logs all bucked to around 8' since that would cover the longest pieces of my looms allowing lots of excess for milling the boards to final specs.  The largest is a maple around 24" diameter but they're mostly in the 14-17" range.  I'd like to be able to make use of all this wood and that's why I'm looking more seriously for a mill.  If I do buy one a solar kiln would be the next project but I can wait to air dry this batch OR there's a kiln nearby that could dry the lumber for me.  Realistically, I could saw way more lumber than I'd use in the loom business but I just enjoy all aspects of working with wood and wouldn't mind converting logs to lumber from time to time both for me and for other woodworkers here in my area.

Again, thanks for all the great ideas and helpful advice.  I'll let you know which direction I take whenever I actually make a decision!

Larry

Just to be clear, The 10 and 15 are not 4 post heads, 

DGD

[highleadtimber16]

Just to be clear, they actually are.     OOPS! Never really noticed but they arn't wow  :D

[Ron Wenrich]

Loombuilder

After reading your post, I'm wondering if you really need a mill.  Seems to me that it would be cost efficient for you to have someone come in and custom saw your logs.  That way you could have ready made boards that would be air drying right now instead of having those boards sitting in a log.  Additionally, you wouldn't have any loss of lumber that invariably arises when you go through your learning curve of sawing on a new mill.

30 logs isn't much of an inventory.  Take the money you would spend on a mill and invest in having them converted to lumber now.  You save the cash and still have the lumber.

If you went the custom sawed route, you could then build your kiln first, and buy your mill later.  That way you could wait for a better deal, if you think there is one out there.  You could also buy some lumber from some of the local mills and get that lumber into your product stream.  You may even find that you don't really need a mill.

[lls256]

Hey Larry

I see you are from Butler PA.  I'm a little south of Butler,  north of Pittsburgh in Gibsonia. I have  a newer LT28 that you can come and take a look at.  In my opinion, the LT 28 wins it hands down over the LT10 or 15. 

Send me a message if you want to take a look at my LT28.

First, I'd like to thank everyone for their replies here in the forum and via PM.  I knew this group would have lots of great information and advice and I really appreciate everyone taking time to share their thoughts.  I have a better understanding now of the benefits of the LT28 over the 2-post (Whoops! It's 2 posts not 4! Sorry about that!) LT10 and LT15 models.  The issue for me remains price and I think I'd rather be in the $4k - $7k range than in the $10k plus that the LT28 will reach with the addition of the log deck package.  You've all given me lots to consider, from continuing to shop for a used, perhaps older, but more capable unit like an older LT30 or even LT40 to putting the LT10 on a spare trailer.  I'll keep on looking and see what comes up.

To give you a bit more context for my search, I build custom weaving looms (a very niche market!) using only hardwoods, primarily cherry and walnut these days.  We had some trees removed from our yard and I immediately coated the ends with AnchorSeal (from my chainsaw milling days... I still have the Alaskan/066 combo but I think it's a little too back-breaking for me now!).  I've got 30 logs all bucked to around 8' since that would cover the longest pieces of my looms allowing lots of excess for milling the boards to final specs.  The largest is a maple around 24" diameter but they're mostly in the 14-17" range.  I'd like to be able to make use of all this wood and that's why I'm looking more seriously for a mill.  If I do buy one a solar kiln would be the next project but I can wait to air dry this batch OR there's a kiln nearby that could dry the lumber for me.  Realistically, I could saw way more lumber than I'd use in the loom business but I just enjoy all aspects of working with wood and wouldn't mind converting logs to lumber from time to time both for me and for other woodworkers here in my area.

Again, thanks for all the great ideas and helpful advice.  I'll let you know which direction I take whenever I actually make a decision!

Larry

[LoomBuilder]

Thanks again for all the replies and the offers I've received to demo mills.  I never cease to be amazed at how friendly and helpful this group is!

Ron makes some excellent points with regard to hiring a sawyer versus buying a mill, especially for someone like me who isn't planning on going into the sawing business.  Right now I have good sources for hardwoods so there's no issue with being able to get the lumber I need to drive my business.  What I do have are the 30 logs on the ground (admittedly a small inventory) plus about 4 acres of mature mixed hardwoods that we're slowly thinning.  My in-laws also have several hundred acres in both fields and woods from which I could harvest now and then.  So a relatively small investment in a mill (no LT70 for me!) might make sense if I wanted to saw something special or unique or to provide some material to friends.  I've checked into having the logs milled for me but it's been tough finding someone willing to come onsite for what is really a small batch of logs.  Interestingly, when I contacted Wood-Mizer they pointed me to a mill owner just a couple of miles away.  Turns out he's the elderly father of a family friend who doesn't really saw anymore but might be willing to saw my logs if I move them to his place.  I never even knew he had a mill but moving the logs there really isn't an option.  I had a load of logs sawn several years ago but that sawyer and his mill are long gone.  I'll check around again for a sawyer and maybe once I have the current batch of logs sawn the hankering for a mill of my own will subside.

I guess the mill isn't so much a business necessity as a desire to work in other aspects of the "forest to finished product" cycle, a chance to make use of the trees and logs I have, and possibly to provide some material to friends looking to make use of their trees.  A small mill/small investment makes sense to me and I'll have to determine the best path to accomplishing these goals.  In the meantime, I probably should try and get someone to saw what I've got here so it isn't lost to sitting on the ground.

Thanks again to all who replied.  You willingness to share your knowledge and experiences is greatly appreciated!

[NCDiesel]

Don't forget Cooks.  I did the same exact thing you did and I looked very closely at the LT15 & LT28 and demo-ed both.   I then looked very closely at the Cook's MP-32 and demo-ed it.  Like night and day in terms of ruggedness, heaviness, stability, etc

Here is why I went with the Cooks.   For comparison, I'll use the Cook's Package #1 ( $8,542.00 ) for the MP32:

1 - I liked the sturdiness of a 4-post head instead of cantilevered (I understand for some this is a preference and not a knock on Woodmizer).
2 - MUCH more rugged bed that is full width the entire length.
3 - Better lube reservoir and wick/wipe system
4 - I prefer the all-steel machined and balanced metal band wheels.  They track SO sweet and clean so nicely compared to the rubber lined of the Woodmizer
5 - Better engine (20HP vs 18HP )
6 - No rope hand cranking - just push.
7 - Up and down very sensitive and can get very accurate thicknesses - infinite increments instead of 1/16" increments.  (This was big to me)

The length was smaller though - Add $725 to the Cooks to get the 21' feet but that is full width 21'   Not "triangular" 21'. 

As you can tell I am very, very happy I went with the Cooks MP32 and  instead of the LT28.   By the way, I went with Package #4 to get the loading ramps/winch and the fuel injected engine.

I hope this helps!

[4430jd]

I have a Woodmizer Lt15 with extension and blades I would consider to sale. The mill was purchased new on Feb. 26 of 09. It was used on the farm to clean up some mature trees. The lumber was used for wood working and building material. Always stored in barn. Looks as good as new. Located in central PA.

[drobertson]

Loom, I read your original post, and for the most part all the others, kinda scanned the last few, just in a hurry, no disrespect, If in fact you are going to only saw a few of your own logs, on an intermittent basis, you have two options, hire a sawyer, not my choice, time constraints, get a low end manual. Not meaning a piece of junk, just one that you can use at your convenience,  you would not regret it.  On the other hand, once you start sawing, you may wish you had a bigger, better one, lots of decisions you have,  hope all works out for you man, david

[Brucer]

I frequently hear the advice, "Get the biggest, most powerful mill you can afford". That's great for really putting out the volume (and saving your back while you're putting out the volume). For the person who wants to custom saw a log now and then to support a woodworking business, it might not be the best advice.

Consider what Erik and Jim (OlJarhead and Happycamper) have done with their LT10's.