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Author Topic: Back hoe dead, what to do?  (Read 8672 times)

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Offline flip

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Back hoe dead, what to do?
« on: March 08, 2006, 08:52:00 AM »
Grrrrrrr >:(  My '63 Allis Chalmers back hoe I think has gone down for the count.  We were using it to clean out a horse barn ring, all sawdust, and load a manure spreader.  Well the chain on the spreader broke so we were gonna finish out the last 3 bucket loads with the back hoe.  We got into the field were we were dumping and the DANg thing quit pulling.  Red fluid leak out of the bell housing very ominous sign of $$ out of the pocket. 

The tractor is old and I just had a set of forks made so I can move the biggins' around to the mill and move the lumber stacks.  I also use it to (shhhhh, skid with) move hay bales and such, but it is old and parts are starting to wear out.  If the trans. has to be pulled I was told to be looking at 3-4,000.  The tractor running is only worth 4-5,000 so do I cut my losses and look for one in the 10-15 range or fix this one and roll the dice?  If I send it to the shop I'm pretty much committed.  The leak is definitely from converter front seal area.  Logs on the ground and I'm helpless :( >:(

Suggestions??


Thanks----Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Kirk_Allen

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2006, 09:06:03 AM »
Do the other controls work on the tractor?  UP/Down on the bucket and hoe?  If they do then I assume we can eliminate both the hydraulic pump and filters.  Leaving only more expensive parts to fix :(


Offline beenthere

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2006, 09:14:00 AM »
Sounds like the time to split it apart to learn what is wrong, and see if you can get parts. No description given of what preceded the "DanG thing quit pulling" ordeal (noises, clunks, jerking, stuck in mud, slipped a gear, dropped the clutch,  ??? ) but there is the possibility a fix would be possible with some time and hassle.
OneWithWood is an 'expert' at diving into these things, so he will have some better ideas. He hasn't had the best of luck with overhauling his and keeping it running for long, but he is getting a lot of experience.
In the meantime, looking for another tractor that is running for the $5k may help you out, or take the opportunity to move up to a newer model (use the horses as the excuse, after all they broke it  :) ).
south central Wisconsin
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Offline jpgreen

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2006, 10:21:59 AM »
Equipment..  ::)

Looks like a "self fixer" oportunity project to learn if you have the time, but to much to send to the shop.  Sounds like you prolly got your money's worth out of the beast though.

As bad as I need one I'd tear into it if it was me, eventhough I've never worked one.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Offline Tom

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2006, 10:26:15 AM »
......or you could just use the horses.  They might not like being attached to a wagon, but it isn't exactly a cruel thing to do.

I lost an old Ford 5550 to symptoms like you describe.  It cost about 1000 to break it apart and replace seals, etc. in the transmission (kinda like a dyno-flow)

I didn't do it.  I had it done at the dealership.  It wasn't 6 months later that the engine siezed and I just replaced it with a smaller and later model.  I have a Ford 555A that I purchased from the dealer's rental stock.  It has done a good job for 20 years now and I'm glad I stepped up to the plate.
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Offline flip

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2006, 11:43:12 AM »
All of the hydraulics work fine.  We were cleaning out the barn due to the lack of horses (uncle getting out of business/retiring). 

We were in the process of driving 150 yards down a very small grade, dumped, turned around and then nuttin', no noise, no nuttin' except for the leak out of the inspection cover.

We drug the thing over to the machine room and looked it over.  I am/was a mechanic but this is way out of my territory.  If it don't burn gas I don't know nuttin' about it.

Must ponder some more on this one.

Thanks
Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline Dale Hatfield

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2006, 12:32:20 PM »
I think the good news is that all other functions still work that means that the tranny,isnt the pump that runs them.

 Dont be scared of the tranny. Trouble shoot it to figger where the leak is comming from. It could be as simple as needing a new line. No fluid no move . Dont think the worse unless your working on something for me cause its usually is.
 Why is it when I call for a part price they say well we have 2 kinds this cheap one and the high dollar one that only fits a few models. Thats allways the one i need.
Check the yeller pages their is usally a heavy equipment/large truck tranny shop close by.
Ill bet if you check the net you will find planty of salvage parts places that will sell you a new one.
Dale

Dale
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Offline slowzuki

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 12:46:08 PM »
I don't know the tranny type but it sounds like your torque convertor woofed its cookies.  How does the tranny on the machine work?  You have a reverser? Need to use the clutch when driving into piles with the loader?

Offline flip

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 12:49:46 PM »
It has a clutch pedal, 4 gears and a shuttle lever that puts it in forward or reverse.  I looked all over the stinkin' thing and couldn't find a fill plug, I guess the floor plate has to come off. >:(

Like I don't have enough going on right now ::)

Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline slowzuki

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2006, 12:54:57 PM »
Can you flop the reversor without clutching (when it is working normal) and can you run it into a pile without clutching?  A hoe with a torque convertor can be stopped in gear by a load without stalling.

Offline flip

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2006, 01:10:42 PM »
Yep. Can ram lift or whatever without clutching.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline beenthere

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 01:21:35 PM »
In your bio says ""Work at family owned Ford dealer for almost 10 years as a service technician and now service advisor.""
Does this get you any access to the mechanics who could (would) look it over and give you some advice? 

Don't 'flip' out on this  - flip. It's the type of thing that makes everything more 'fun' (just ask several here who don't know when to quit or even if that is an option to consider  ;D ).  Keep feedin some info, and you may get out of this with just a little bit o grease on your elbows.  :)

What's the model number and serial number, and a pic or two would help.  Any manual handy to you? 
south central Wisconsin
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Offline flip

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 01:56:26 PM »
I've tapped my normal sources here and got the usual, "I duno, I don't work on tractors". ::) 

A couple buddies just stopped by a few minutes ago and talked me into pulling the trans.  They looked at it last night and said just the front seal.  Knowing better I've agreed and will start pulling tonight >:(

I'll try to get pics, can't find camera...again. >:(
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline Tom

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 01:58:29 PM »
Look in the refrigerator
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Offline flip

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 02:04:09 PM »
 :D :D :D :D :D
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline raycon

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 02:07:06 PM »
http://www.ytmag.com/

The have a pretty active Allis Chalmers forum
Lot of stuff..

Offline slowzuki

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 03:49:44 PM »
I was gonna second the ytmag link, great resource for old iron.

It sounds like a sealed TC took a dump given the red fluid.  They can be rebuilt by good techs or replaced with new or rebuilt.  May just be the seal on it.  If the fluid drains out of it you are basically dead in the water.  It would act the same as the clutch being depressed.  Without a blow up of the guts its hard to troubleshoot any further.

Offline flip

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2006, 04:03:58 PM »
UPDATE>>>>

My co-hort filled the trans. up and it pulled itself, BUT.  Another guy under the tractor was looking through the inspection cover saw new fluid comming out around converter seal (God I hope the converter didn't puke).  So bench press the trans. we will tonight :(  if my voice is higher tomorrow or I don't type so well, well, you know why.

Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Offline jpgreen

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2006, 05:18:56 PM »
What's a torque converter (ball park) cost for one of these machines?
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Offline ronwood

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Re: Back hoe dead, what to do?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2006, 05:33:41 PM »
flip.

Maybe the seal went bad and that is the only problem.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
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