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Back hoe dead, what to do?

Started by flip, March 08, 2006, 08:52:00 AM

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flip

Grrrrrrr >:(  My '63 Allis Chalmers back hoe I think has gone down for the count.  We were using it to clean out a horse barn ring, all sawdust, and load a manure spreader.  Well the chain on the spreader broke so we were gonna finish out the last 3 bucket loads with the back hoe.  We got into the field were we were dumping and the DANg thing quit pulling.  Red fluid leak out of the bell housing very ominous sign of $$ out of the pocket. 

The tractor is old and I just had a set of forks made so I can move the biggins' around to the mill and move the lumber stacks.  I also use it to (shhhhh, skid with) move hay bales and such, but it is old and parts are starting to wear out.  If the trans. has to be pulled I was told to be looking at 3-4,000.  The tractor running is only worth 4-5,000 so do I cut my losses and look for one in the 10-15 range or fix this one and roll the dice?  If I send it to the shop I'm pretty much committed.  The leak is definitely from converter front seal area.  Logs on the ground and I'm helpless :( >:(

Suggestions??


Thanks----Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Kirk_Allen

Do the other controls work on the tractor?  UP/Down on the bucket and hoe?  If they do then I assume we can eliminate both the hydraulic pump and filters.  Leaving only more expensive parts to fix :(


beenthere

Sounds like the time to split it apart to learn what is wrong, and see if you can get parts. No description given of what preceded the "DanG thing quit pulling" ordeal (noises, clunks, jerking, stuck in mud, slipped a gear, dropped the clutch,  ??? ) but there is the possibility a fix would be possible with some time and hassle.
OneWithWood is an 'expert' at diving into these things, so he will have some better ideas. He hasn't had the best of luck with overhauling his and keeping it running for long, but he is getting a lot of experience.
In the meantime, looking for another tractor that is running for the $5k may help you out, or take the opportunity to move up to a newer model (use the horses as the excuse, after all they broke it  :) ).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jpgreen

Equipment..  ::)

Looks like a "self fixer" oportunity project to learn if you have the time, but to much to send to the shop.  Sounds like you prolly got your money's worth out of the beast though.

As bad as I need one I'd tear into it if it was me, eventhough I've never worked one.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Tom

......or you could just use the horses.  They might not like being attached to a wagon, but it isn't exactly a cruel thing to do.

I lost an old Ford 5550 to symptoms like you describe.  It cost about 1000 to break it apart and replace seals, etc. in the transmission (kinda like a dyno-flow)

I didn't do it.  I had it done at the dealership.  It wasn't 6 months later that the engine siezed and I just replaced it with a smaller and later model.  I have a Ford 555A that I purchased from the dealer's rental stock.  It has done a good job for 20 years now and I'm glad I stepped up to the plate.

flip

All of the hydraulics work fine.  We were cleaning out the barn due to the lack of horses (uncle getting out of business/retiring). 

We were in the process of driving 150 yards down a very small grade, dumped, turned around and then nuttin', no noise, no nuttin' except for the leak out of the inspection cover.

We drug the thing over to the machine room and looked it over.  I am/was a mechanic but this is way out of my territory.  If it don't burn gas I don't know nuttin' about it.

Must ponder some more on this one.

Thanks
Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Dale Hatfield

I think the good news is that all other functions still work that means that the tranny,isnt the pump that runs them.

Dont be scared of the tranny. Trouble shoot it to figger where the leak is comming from. It could be as simple as needing a new line. No fluid no move . Dont think the worse unless your working on something for me cause its usually is.
Why is it when I call for a part price they say well we have 2 kinds this cheap one and the high dollar one that only fits a few models. Thats allways the one i need.
Check the yeller pages their is usally a heavy equipment/large truck tranny shop close by.
Ill bet if you check the net you will find planty of salvage parts places that will sell you a new one.
Dale

Dale
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

slowzuki

I don't know the tranny type but it sounds like your torque convertor woofed its cookies.  How does the tranny on the machine work?  You have a reverser? Need to use the clutch when driving into piles with the loader?

flip

It has a clutch pedal, 4 gears and a shuttle lever that puts it in forward or reverse.  I looked all over the stinkin' thing and couldn't find a fill plug, I guess the floor plate has to come off. >:(

Like I don't have enough going on right now ::)

Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

slowzuki

Can you flop the reversor without clutching (when it is working normal) and can you run it into a pile without clutching?  A hoe with a torque convertor can be stopped in gear by a load without stalling.

flip

Yep. Can ram lift or whatever without clutching.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

beenthere

In your bio says ""Work at family owned Ford dealer for almost 10 years as a service technician and now service advisor.""
Does this get you any access to the mechanics who could (would) look it over and give you some advice? 

Don't 'flip' out on this  - flip. It's the type of thing that makes everything more 'fun' (just ask several here who don't know when to quit or even if that is an option to consider  ;D ).  Keep feedin some info, and you may get out of this with just a little bit o grease on your elbows.  :)

What's the model number and serial number, and a pic or two would help.  Any manual handy to you? 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

flip

I've tapped my normal sources here and got the usual, "I duno, I don't work on tractors". ::) 

A couple buddies just stopped by a few minutes ago and talked me into pulling the trans.  They looked at it last night and said just the front seal.  Knowing better I've agreed and will start pulling tonight >:(

I'll try to get pics, can't find camera...again. >:(
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Tom


flip

Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

raycon

http://www.ytmag.com/

The have a pretty active Allis Chalmers forum
Lot of stuff..

slowzuki

I was gonna second the ytmag link, great resource for old iron.

It sounds like a sealed TC took a dump given the red fluid.  They can be rebuilt by good techs or replaced with new or rebuilt.  May just be the seal on it.  If the fluid drains out of it you are basically dead in the water.  It would act the same as the clutch being depressed.  Without a blow up of the guts its hard to troubleshoot any further.

flip

UPDATE>>>>

My co-hort filled the trans. up and it pulled itself, BUT.  Another guy under the tractor was looking through the inspection cover saw new fluid comming out around converter seal (God I hope the converter didn't puke).  So bench press the trans. we will tonight :(  if my voice is higher tomorrow or I don't type so well, well, you know why.

Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

jpgreen

What's a torque converter (ball park) cost for one of these machines?
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

ronwood

flip.

Maybe the seal went bad and that is the only problem.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

highpockets

I bought a 555 Ford (1987) backhoe about three years ago. It was a bid deal and I think I was one of very few that knew it was for sale. I bid $3,500.00 as the guy that had run it told me the clutch was slipping.  I split it apart and found that the clutches had so little wear that I had to mic them against a new one to tell the difference.  I took the clutch pack to the ford dealer since I did not want to build a adapter to changew the seals.  The mechanic told me that one seal (forward) was missing. He thought I had disassembled it.  I contacted the first owner and asked him if they had ever split the machine. He said no.  It seems that the tractor came out of the factory with the seal missing.  Anyway, about $400.00 later I have a fairly good machine. 

If the thing is blown up, what can you hurt, tear it apart and see.  I'll bet it is simplier than you think.   
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

isassi

If you filled it up with fluid and it pulled itself, you have nothing to fear but a seal kit. Now getting the seal kit may be fun, but oh well...one thing to be said for running a Case backhoe..parts can be had if you have the bucks to have them  ;D If it quits pulling and the last sounds you hear are grinding noises, then its bad all the way...and parts like that from salvage yards need to be carefully inspected because TC failure is the number one killer on older backhoes. I don't know how AC or Agripro will treat you on parts, a dealer re-build from Case  on  TC can eat the value of a 580 backhoe pretty quick...

flip

Well, we pulled the transmission, something I suggest everyone do once, and found the converter hub seal out of its bore.  Yippie I guess.  I think since it's apart I'll send the converter out to get checked.  No one got hurt but there is hydro, trans. and gear oil EVERYWHERE not to mention 40 years of crud and muck.

Thanks all for the advice,
Flip
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Lud

A lesson for us all.  I can almost feel the oil 'n grit  under the fingernails.  (I'm partial to Fels Naptha for that).   Thanks   8)
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

flip

Just got converter back from Jasper Engines, all check out fine.  Clearance checked out at new spec. and air pressure tested good.  I feel a little better about things now.  When I get my seal tomorrow I plan to "stake" it since it doesn't have a lip around the edge and make sure my vent is good.
We worked on it until 1am last night and am dragging tail today :( 
Get to bed at 2, roosters crow at 5 and I had to be at work at 6:30.  My head should be firmly planted on my desk here shortly in a pile of drool.

Flip

As far as hand cleaner we have some stuff at work here (Zep Cherry Bomb)that is great but in a pinch I use brake parts cleaner.  If you have a cut though prepare to see stars.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

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