substitute for trailer decking?

[getoverit]

I have a customer who wants to deck out quite a number of trailer decks that haul heavy equipment like bulldozers and excavators. The original decking on his trailers was pressure treated pine, but they didnt last long and rotted out. He replaced it with red oak, but that rotted out almost as soon as it was installed.

We generally dont have much white oak down here in Florida. Is there another substitute for trailer decking that is weather resistant and also capable of handling the abuse of heavy equiment tacks?  Will Hickory or sweetgum hold up good?

[4woody]

try pecon

[DanG]

Hickory/pecan or sweet gum will not hold up to the weather.  They will rot quicker than the red oak.  Live oak would be much better, but not as good as white oak.  Longleaf heart pine is about as good as you can get down in these parts without treating.  Look around for a treat plant in your area.  Many of them will treat wood for you for a pretty reasonable rate.  Some will treat heavier than what you can commonly buy.  You could cut the decking out of quality SYP and have it treated for them.  That would probably be your best bet.

The ironic thing is, those dozers and excavators that are tearing up the decks are probably used to push many tons of good decking materials into burn piles every day.

[4woody]

wood pecon work if you had it preashertreted

[pineywoods]

Ditto Dang's comments.  My preference is post oak, which I doubt you have available. It's a close relative of white oak, rot resistant and tuff. I've done several trailers this summer. After installing the decking, I park the trailer out in the hot sun for several hours, then soak the wood with a mixture of diesel fuel and used motor oil. Lest I raise the ire of the EPA types, apply just enough to wet the wood, but not enough to run off on the ground. Lets face it, equipment trailers will likely get thoroughly soaked from normal use...

[DanG]

I'm not sure, 4woody. ???  Pecan is very dense wood, and I sorta doubt if the treating agent would penetrate well enough to make it effective.  If the treatment did work, it would sure be a tough trailer deck.

[4woody]

thank you DanG I have alot of it mabe bathroom floor with lenseed oil & two coats poly

[Fla._Deadheader]

Believe I would go with the Live Oak and drain oil. Swinger is the best way to cut that Live Oak.

[getoverit]

I have plenty of live oak available, but hadnt thought of it as trailer decking The only problem is that I dont have logs of it 16' long.... this may or may not be a problem but I'll give it a shot with the suggested oil soaking and see how it does.  Thanks guys!

[tcsmpsi]

GOI

In line with DanG's comments, most likely the 'pressure treated' pine which was on their trailers, was of poor quality (less expense).  I know the trailers I have seen, when ordered with treated floors, are hardly worth the difference in plain flooring. 

Good  pressure treated syp will be there longer than anything else.  Up until recently, had a pressure treating plant up the road.  Never took any of my own, but I had ordered a bunch over the years special treated.  No comparison to 'over the counter'.   Especially with 'rough cut' material. 

[beenthere]

GOI
Keeping in mind that pressure treating pine only works for the sapwood. The heartwood doesn't take a treatment, but has some natural resistance to decay. Live oak is known as quite decay resistant.

I'm curious as to how long the previous deckings have lasted. I'd think years, but not familiar with the longevity of treated pine in Florida (maybe our snow and cold has some advantages  ). 

I think tcsmpsi hit on the likely problem. Poor quality wood, and poor treatment. To some, if they can get a color added to the wood, they sell it as treated.
FDH and DanG have my votes too. 

[jpgreen]

Do a search on "Rumber" ... ;)

[getoverit]

the pressure treated stuff that came on the trailers they had lasted less than 4 years. It is quite possible that it was inferrior treatment that did the dirty deed on it. The customer is adament about not using pressure treated lumber any more but wants a better solution.

Here in Florida we have high humidity, mud, and long spells of rain. If it isnt raining, the sun is beating down on it and warping it. Decking of any kind doesnt last that long down here and from my experience even the best pressure treated stuff only lasts 10 to 12 years. Creosote fence posts last a little longer, maybe lasting 20 years.

[Tom]

Steel tracks are death on wood trailer beds.  I've cut Live Oak for low-boys that were used for bulldozers and track hoes.

The owners requested that I cut it 3 inches thick.  They said that it doesn't necessarily last longer than treated pine but it wears better.   It will rot and usuallly from underneath.  It has to be put down green and with strong fasteners.

I didn't do the trailer building, just the log sawing. 

[DanG]

Typical PT SYP is from Loblolly pines with very wide growth rings.  It is the summer wood that absorbs treatment, and the winter wood that does not.  However, the summer wood is very soft and doesn't wear well.  Longleaf, however, grows more slowly and it's growth rings are much closer, making it much more durable.  Also, Longleaf will develop heart wood in a mature tree.  This wood is saturated with sap that has hardened, and is one of the most durable and rot-resistant woods around.  There are fence posts of heart pine on my place that have been in service for 60 years, and they're still solid.  The siding on my mule barn has been unprotected for 60+ years, and is still good.  It hasn't had that many bulldozers driven over it, however. :D :D :D

In the other SYPs, Loblolly, Slash, and Shortleaf, the only discernable difference in sapwood and heartwood is in the juvenile wood in the center.  It is of lesser quality than the rest of the log, but takes treatment well, and is commonly cut into 4x4s for fence posts.

GOI, if I had a customer like that, I'd be looking for some close-grained Longleaf, or at least Slash, and having them treated at .60 or .80 with CCA.  I think you'd have a happy customer.

[Frank_Pender]

We do not have all of those species out here on the Left Coast, but I have been marketing quite a bit of Cottonwood for decking and the fellas seem to really like the results.  I know that they appreciate that the grousers can grabe into the material when trying to climb onto the trailers.

[thurlow]

I have used lumber from utility poles ever since I've had a mill.  Coupla problems;  you have to have a supply of poles and the creosote is carcinogenic, so some special care must be taken while sawing.  It's somewhat softer than white oak, typically syp or some such.  When I first used it, I assumed it would last indefinitely, but not so.  Floors for cattle trailers and decking for equipment trailers typically last 10-12 years before the first planks begin to go bad.  When that happens, it's often better to refloor the whole thing rather than piece at a time.  I (usually) cut mine 2 1/2 (10/4 ;D) inches thick.

[logwalker]

Up here in the NW several hardwood suppliers are stocking green (wet) purple heart just for truck and trailer decks. It sells for about 2.80 and is 2.5 or 3 inches thick. It last for almost as long as the trailer does. Nothing can attack it much. LW

[joelmar10]

Osage Orange (bois de arc, hedgewood).  Stable, rot resistant, and hard as nails.

[DanG]

Osage Orange (bois de arc, hedgewood).  Stable, rot resistant, and hard as nails.

Also, not available in Florida. :-\

[Mooseherder]

This is where that north south lumber exchange idea you had would fit.
Up there, we use Tamarac for Trailer Decking.  Best put down Green.

[getoverit]

I have heard that osage orange is good for this, but as DanG stated, it aint from around these parts. I dont think I have ever even seen this tree or lumber.We don't have purleheart either.

Moosehearder, you are correct in your thoughts... this is a prime example of how a north/south lumber exchange would work out good.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I can arrange for you to HAVE Purpleheart in Florida  ;) :D :D 8)

[DanG]

Hey Harold!  Fax me a trailer load of it and I'll sell it to Getoverit and he can sell it to his customer and we'll all be happy. 8) 8)

[getoverit]

 :D :D :D :D

OK, here is the funny part:

I did some checking last night on the web and found that Osage Orange wll grow down here in sunny Florida. It is really fast growing according to the info on it and likes just about any type of soil.

I found a company that will ship out trees 3' tall for a reasonable price, and they ship in November. I think I'll order a few trees and see how they do.. who knows, I might have the only Osage Orange plantation in Florida soon :P

[Part_Timer]

GOI

I'll send you some small ones this fall if you would like.  I have about 30 of them growing in pots on the deck.

The only problem with decking in Osage is that the decking will eat up all of the GVW of the trailer.  There won't be any left for the equipment.

[Trax]

Have you got any locust down there ?

[Tom]

I worry about the invasivness of species that aren't naturally seeded here.  We have Chinese Tallow, Australian Pine, Brazilian Pepper, Melaleuca, Mimosa, China Berry, Chinese Ligustrum, Lantana, Kudzu, air potato, cogon grass, elephant grass and Johnson Grass, hydrilla and hyancinth just to name a few.

Before you plant something new, consider the outcome. 

[jpgreen]

We have Star thistle.

Some guy put a pike from South East Asia in a pristine resort town lake up in N. Cal, and the thing has taken over.  It litterly has fangs.

They have poison killed the lake 3 times now (the towns supply of drinking water), and will be doing it again as they're afraid the fish will migrate downstream to the Feather River, then the Sacramento- clear to SanFranciso Bay, killing off all the native species along the way. They can't seam to kill the darn thing.

I say it's already got out.

It's not nice to fool with mother nature..   

[getoverit]

Tom,
I worry about that too. In this case, this tree already grows here under a different name. Mock Orange is what the old timers call it, and I have seen it here, but  it is rare. It looks like small lots of pine trees down here are not of interest to pulp wooders any more. I have people calling me every day wanting to give me pine. Few want to buy the lumber though. Perhaps a fast growing hardwood that has the properties of osage orange would be a good cash crop and a good replacement for pine.

Part_Timer, I'd love to have a few to try out!

[Mooseherder]

Wonder how the invasive species of Australian Pine would work for Trailer Decking?
It is tough as nails. Impossible to split. And plentiful would be an understatement.
Have you ever sawed Australian Pine for any use?

[Tom]

I'll bet Australian Pine would make good trailer decking.

Yes, I've sawed it.  Rather, I've sawed at it.  It is so full of tension that a 1x6 will be a 2 1/2 x 8 on the other end.  Sometimes they raise off of the mill and the blade runs out of them and you go to nothing.  Sometimes one will jump off of the mill and chase you to the truck.

I cut some the best I could at 5/4 and brought it home and dried it.  the 5/4 and 2" dressed to some real pretty 3/4 and 1" boards.   My wife wanted a floor made from it.  Luckily, I didn't have enough. :D

If you could find out the secret to sawing it, it would make a beautiful floor.

[Mooseherder]

Here is a Picture of the Invader. You can see the chair beside it for scale.
It shades my fire pit well in winter.
I guess that would have some tension built into it. ;D

[Part_Timer]

Ken

Remind me this fall cause I'll forget if ya don't.  I have a serious case of forgettfuls anymore.  I also have a good source for seeds from them.  I just through them in a wash tub full of sawdust and let them set over the winter and in the spring WALA osage seedlings.

Tom

[mike_van]

I tried to buy some osage orange to plant here in Ct., the greenhouse told me it's not "hardy" enough. Yet, 20 miles from me grows a monster, over 30" dia, 80' tall, it has the look of one of those spooky trees you see in a movie. Deep furrowed bark, limbs that kind of twist every which way. Would like to have it in my yard. The lady said they gather up the fruit sometimes, the whole hose smells like oranges for a while.  One of those trees you just stare at.

[Ianab]

If you could find out the secret to sawing it, it would make a beautiful floor.

No secret, just use a swingblade  ;D

It's a popular woodworking wood in Aussie, and has been used for flooring etc. Density and hardness are about like English Oak, hence it's common name She-oak.
Sounds like someone should get into harvesting it  ;)

Cheers

Ian

[Tom]

A bunch of us have tried, Ianab.  So many of the big trees are gone now.   They used to be used for windbreaks in and around the orange groves.  The hurricanes blew them over.   Most that are left are in thickets and are 12 or 15 inches DBH.   The State would sure like to see them gone.  A fellow couldl probably get all he wanted for free.  (until someone figured out he was making money off of them  :D )

[Percy]

Do a search on "Rumber" ... ;)

:D :D :D I think I rike you. You make me raff :D :D :D :D

[jack]

Hello all,
Decking for trucks and trailers,  Here in the West coast,  i have cut Eucalyptus for trailer decking,  Bolt it down GREEN,  then in some cases,  we had to rebolt it due to the force of the wood pulling thru the bolts.  I told the guy that it might do that and gave him some extra planks.  He told me that Eucalyptus wore many times better than the other decking.  Aptong is good too but pricy.
One of my Customers bought Monterey Cypress for decking his semi , Flatbed truck,  his only comment (DanG hard,  had to drill every hole)  but he oiled it and it looks wonderful.

Jack

[rebocardo]

Just wanted to second not using sweetgum, it turns black with mildew very quickly then falls apart, if the bugs do not get it first if it is going to be parked for a week or more at a time. The other thing if left exposed to the sun and rain, it is going to twist, cup, and warp unless it is bolted down every two feet.

The problem is wood can not stand up to tracks and most trailers are built with their flanges so only store bought 2x can fit. 2x flexes a lot with heavy equipment on it, the flexing allows the wheels and tracks to dig in. If you can, I think 3x would be much better.

[customsawyer]

I would have to disagree with the use of sweetgum as I have used it several times. I lay it out like I am going to put it on the trailer take a old mop and a 5 gallon bucket of used motor oil and mop it down let it soak in for awhile do it again then flip it over and bolt it down I actuly use self taping screws that I get from a place called fastenal. Don't use a regular 3/8 drill for this as it will burn it up before you get done with half of the trailer I get best results from a 1/2" drive impact wrench. Once you have it bolted down then you repeat the oil process and then just do that oil thing ablut every 6 months or so. I have done this for trailers in the sod business and for low-boys in the construction buisness and as log as you use the oil every now and then you will be fine.
What you customer is looking for is something that he can put on there and never have to look at it again. Remind him that it is a piece of equipment and like a truck or tractor you have to service it every now and then. These guys will take the trouble to check and adjust the brakes on the trailer so why won't they service the top. IMO

[getoverit]

I met with the Southeastern Representative for RUMBER today and was impressed. I have a truck full of samples and it looks like I am going to become a distributor for this stuff.

I'll know more in a week or so after the paperwork arrives and I have a chance to look it over.

[rebocardo]

Rumber looks good on the surface, except the min. spacing. For flatbed trailer apps, they require 9"-12" MAX on center. Most trailers are 16"+.

So on a 16 foot trailer, where you might normally have 12 cross members (if that) you now need 16-21 !

Personally, I try to build my trailers to that anyways (just like my house stuff), but, that kind of spacing is very rare on commercial trailers, especially on the larger trailers with 5-6" high frame rails.

My store built skid trailer I just sold was 24" centers and used 2"x6".

[littlejack]

You might try Blackgum (Nyssa sylvatica).  It was used for switch ties by the railroad industry in the past because it held up very well.  I have not used it myself.

[ellmoe]

Ken,

   Like littlejack suggested, blackgum works well. Its main advantage is that it is very light when dry. The best success I have had is with water or laurel oak, regularily painted with burnt oil. The oak is strong enough to hold up to track machines and the heartwood is naturally durable. The problem with the PT pine was that it is usually only .25 teated and the treatment is not throughout the board. Once the treatment barrier is breached it will begin to rot. With the softness of most  pine that usually doesn't take too long. Dang is correct about the longleaf heart, but I don't think you will find much around your area. I try to explain to customers that the decking is a maintenance issue and that it will need to be replaced no matter what they use. Hey, we need rpeat customers too! ;D

Mark