iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Drying thick slabs and mantels-- new approach?

Started by Okrafarmer, November 20, 2012, 08:37:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Okrafarmer

I've been mulling this idea a while, and may have even mentioned it before.

We all know that thick hardwood pieces can be a bear to dry properly. Once you get past 2 inches thick, your troubles multiply. It can take many years to air-dry the wood, or if you pop them in the kiln, it can both take a lot of precious kiln time, and also sometimes have variable results in terms of both internal moisture content, and also external quality.

So-- what would happen if we made a mantel or table-top, and accelerated the drying process? How, you may ask?

Well. . . . .  :-\

I had this idea, which may not work. What if you were to take the piece and recognize that only one side of it is ever going to be seen? Especially for a mantel. And then, after choosing the nicer side, flip it over and drill a lot of holes in the other side, maybe two inches apart, or whatever, but not all the way through. Or possibly use a router or some other tool, and mill grooves in the other side, all the way along it, but not coming out the end. Then, especially if the holes or grooves are wide enough, it would seem that the moisture could escape through the holes. Especially in a kiln.

So am I crazy to think such things? Maybe the wood would warp or split. I don't know. Maybe it would work better for some species than for others.

An added benefit to this approach, especially for a piece of furniture, is that it would be lighter, for easier moving around!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

ohsoloco

Often times on a thick piece of wood that will end up checking, people will make a saw kerf part way through the piece in an unseen area to give it a place to check.

Tom L

I make some decoys out of pine and cedar, I know that hollowing out the inside of the body helps a lot with relieving stress so they don't check after they are finished.

Den Socling

Naturally, surface checks and major cracks are created when the surface dries and shrinks over a wet, swollen core. Anything you do to increase the drying rate of the core would help.

shelbycharger400

Im listening, but Its going to be getting into the frozen state soon here so not much drying is going to happen until march again.

I want to do hardwood mantles next year.  Eastern red Cedar sells well, pine you almost have to give away.

SPIKER

Cant remember who or where this guy is but one of the most well known exotic wood sculptors.   He built his own drying oven and used an old "Microwave Oven innards" it has a Rotating platform and the statue is wrapped in ? parchment or saran wrap.   The thing runs like a kiln for weeks at a time on like Defrost Cycle where the microwave is only COOKING for a short period of time.   This guy is also a Electrical Engineer or heavily in Electrical Background mostly because of all his attempts at drying really wild carvings & turnings on large scale.   I'm sure someone here will pipe up with his name and once that comes in searching him you will see some of his info and what he has done.   He keeps all his details private on his drying processes but there are some details out there...

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Tree Feller

The attraction of a slab mantel is that it is just that...a solid slab. I would be surprised if folks would want a slab with holes or kerf in it.

I think you need to stockpile slab mantles and keep adding to the stock every year. After three or four years, you would always have a batch that is dry.

Or you could send them to Den and let him dry them in his vacuum kiln.   ;D
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

Okrafarmer

Ok, so-- so far, nobody thinks it's a terrible idea. That's good. Don Socling seems to think that the concept, at least, is sound. I am now motivated to try it. I have this nice red oak log, around 30" diamter or so, and looks like some nice material. I am interested in cutting some thick slabs, trying one or two relief-side methods,  and sending them to the drying kiln to see what happens. Do you think it would matter whether the slabs were from near the middle of the log, or more tangential? and also, what if I did a slab that included the pith inside it? Then how would this affect it? If it was a tangential slab, would it matter if I made the relief holes / slots on the outside or inside surface of the slab? (meaning, inside surface is the wider side of a slab, while the outside surface, is the narrower side, the side toward the outside of the tree as it was growing)

:P ??? :P ??? :P ??? :P
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Tree Feller on November 20, 2012, 07:03:31 PM
The attraction of a slab mantel is that it is just that...a solid slab. I would be surprised if folks would want a slab with holes or kerf in it.

That shouldn't matter, because they won't be able to see them. That side is down, out of sight, when it is installed.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Tree Feller on November 20, 2012, 07:03:31 PM
I think you need to stockpile slab mantles and keep adding to the stock every year. After three or four years, you would always have a batch that is dry.

Or you could send them to Den and let him dry them in his vacuum kiln.   ;D

Good ideas, I suppose. Stockpiling slabs for years would be space intensive, though. How long does it take do dry these things in a vacuum kiln, and is there much checking and splitting?
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Okrafarmer

Part of my reasoning is because people keep on calling and wanting me to "make us a mantel/slab of XYZ dimensions out of X species, and we want to install it in the next few weeks / months."  Well, we know, this is troublesome. But I want to be able to just say, "yep, I can do that, here's how it will work, and this is what it will cost."
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

shelbycharger400

Okra..
That is why I did pine and Cedar mantles.  They dry in a few weeks to a month or 2.

I had a customer this summer talk about drilling 2 in bores in a 4 to 6 in thick oak mantle, so your most likely not that far off track. That would be from the face that goes against the wall that is. 

beenthere

Okra
QuoteThat side is down, out of sight, when it is installed

I sit here looking at my cherry mantel and I see the underside (front half or so), the front face, and the ends.
What I don't see is the topside (unless I stand on the hearth and I don't do that because then I see some dust up there).   ;D
In fact, there was a fair size drying split that I filled with epoxy and put that on the topside. No one really knows it is there.



 

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Okrafarmer

I guess it depends on how high up your mantel is, how far out it sticks in front, and-- how tall you are.  ;D

And, you have a very nice mantel, Beenthere, and it is nicely decorated.  :)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

shelbycharger400

So Id thought Id chime in.
Just typed in yahoo "fast drying oak mantles"

One of the listings came up, from craigslist, Its one of mine selling Red cedar mantles.   Now I think it answers the question as to why a week or so ago I got a call from  Pennsylvania   :o Didn't think Id get that much notice on their.

tyb525

Quote from: Okrafarmer on November 20, 2012, 07:08:36 PM
That shouldn't matter, because they won't be able to see them. That side is down, out of sight, when it is installed.

And many people wouldn't spot the mitered corners in hollow mantle made from well-matched 4/4 boards, one of the big reasons for a solid mantle is so you can say it's a solid mantle. But as far as looks, the average eye wouldn't pick out that it isn't solid, except for the woodworker or someone who knows it isn't solid. Even if it had no endgrain (which it could be made with endgrain...), who would really notice that except the woodworker?

So with that being said, could you still consider it a solid mantle, and at that point is it any better than a hollow mantle with mitered corners?

I think it would definitely help drying, as it would essentially become a hollow mantle. Whether it is practical, well that's up to you ;)
LT10G10, Stihl 038 Magnum, many woodworking tools. Currently a farm service applicator, trying to find time to saw!

shelbycharger400

tyb
I see what your saying, but its very hard to make a laminate Live edge mantle,   They don't want seams. And 1/2 and 3/4 style log mantles are imposible to do any other way, and weigh a Ton!

red oaks lumber

you can't rush nature,i wont dry any green or fairly green mantle in the kiln. bad things will happen, having a stock pile of air drying mantles is the only logical method if your dealing in hardwoods.
drilling holes in the back would be a deal killer for most customers.do it right or don't do it at all. just my opinion
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Why not just use a router and rout out the one side rather than make holes?
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Den Socling

Maybe, just maybe, I could dry a kiln charge of 16/4 black walnut mantles. The cost would be $25 per day for 33 days. Spread out over a couple hundred mantles, that would be cheap. You guys pay for shipping. Sell them for whatever you can get. I'll think about it. I know I can do it but getting a load of BW mantles would be a pain in the butt. 

Edit: Of course you would have to pay the cost of the green mantle and something for handling.

Okrafarmer

Well, Den, that is reasonable, the only problem with that for me, is that I couldn't come up with a whole kiln-load all at one time. People out in the mid-west might be able to.

Doc Gene, yes a router would work. I thought of that too.

Well, I think, what I will do, is to try all the approaches. I will offer them to my customers every which way. I will start a supply of truly solid mantels, and experiment with the rush jobs.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

shelbycharger400

Pocket milling with the router so their is material for the lag bolt pins .
Quite a few of my customers went with the lag bolts in the wall.

WDH

I don't think that drilling out the wood is very appealing.  You may as well just make the mantle out of MDF.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Okrafarmer

Well, I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying, that when I have the log sitting there, and someone comes to me and says they need a mantel cut to order, I have to start and end somewhere.  :-\

Maybe I should figure out a way to just dry the entire logs to 6% moisture content, and keep them like that forever until I need them.  :-[
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Den Socling

I'm not talking about one of you coming up with a kiln charge. If a bunch of you split up a charge, I may do it.

Thank You Sponsors!