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Blade "diving" into the log

Started by 50 Acre Jim, March 09, 2018, 04:44:14 PM

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ladylake

 With roller guides you NEED 1/4 down pressure to work right.  If ceramic guides are tight to the band with no wear they would control the blade good but tight to the band and no wear only happen when brand new and adjusted tight. Why do you spend  time and money messing with the carriage rather than fixing the problem. I give up trying to help.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Bruno of NH

I bought some cooks bands a box of ten
They never made a good cut on my mill
Won't stay on the wheels and make wavy cuts.
I not bashing cooks at all.
But the box I got Don t work for me even when resharpebed.
I have WM,Timber wolf,Ripper 37 and Kasco all cut great
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

50 Acre Jim

Tonight I removed the rails from the bed and reinstalled them.  They just didn't feel right, even though the alignment tool that Norwood sends with the saw indicated everything was aligned correctly.  Felt like the carriage was binding as I pushed it along. Not bad, but not real smooth like you would expect.

I put an aluminum 4' level along the side of the rails, and it was obvious that there were inward and outward bows along the track.  Not visible by looking at it and not picked up with the alignment tool, but they were there for sure.

I took a finish hammer and tapped them until the entire run on each side was perfect. Ran the carriage down the track and wow, what a difference.   Not saying that was the entire problem, but I believe that was where the problem was starting.

Next, I re-adjusted the band-wheels so that the teeth of the bandsaw blade were about ½" (perhaps a little more) away from the edge of the belt.  The blade teeth were much closer to the belt previously.   I reassembled the rest of the saw, put on and tightened a new cooks blade, filled the lubricant container, and fired it up.

The first cut was marvelous!  So was the second, third and fourth.  It's dark now so that was all I could do tonight.  But tomorrow I'll toss on another log and see what happens.

But here is what I "think" has been happening, and yes, it was touched on earlier in this thread by GMM and Nomad both.  I believe the (out of true) rails were binding the carriage as I pushed it, which caused the blade to push back against the rollers to the point that the back side of the blade rode up on the back of the roller.  In this position, the blade would be pointing down and was forced to dive into the cut.  As such, it would straighten up as soon as I slowed down on the cut and the blade got back into correct position.  

But more importantly, with the blade being shoved back that far, the teeth were probably running against the band-wheel, compressing them into a configuration that wasn't conducive to any kind of straight cut. Once the blade was damaged to this degree, it wasn't ever going to cut correctly again, and wavy cuts were all it would ever produce from that point on.  This would explain why the first cut with a new blade was always good and the following cuts were always crap.

So that's where we are tonight.  I'm closer to having this figured out than I've been in a very long time. The tricky part here was that there were so many small things contributing to the problem, and not one big thing.

So fingers crossed that the saw works as well tomorrow as it did tonight.  

In retrospect, it was probably just the dirty water in the lubricant tank and the new water did the trick...    J/K of course.  :-)
Go to work?  Probably Knott.  Because I cant.

Skipper11A

Good to hear an update from you Jim!  Your decision to go back to factory default ceramic guides is a good one.  You want to eliminate all the variables so that you can focus on the real issue.  To risk sounding like a broken record,  "That saw should cut straight without any guides whatsoever!"

You did well by straightening your guide rails but that's not where your blade issue is.  Your blade diving issue is in the carriage.  I'm concerned with your wheel tracking adjustment which puts your teeth 1/2 " in front of your wheel.  You are now in the area where you will begin throwing blades off of your mill.  I'm not worried because when you throw your first blade you will correct the alignment immediately, (yes, it's that dramatic).

Jim, I'm wondering if you have tried to over tension your blade?  I mean I want you to over tension the s*** out of your blade and see if it cuts straight.  Best of luck, and we are eager for updates.

ladylake


 (That saw should cut straight without any guides whatsoever)

 If that was any where near the truth why would any saw put roller guides on?  Steve 
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

50 Acre Jim

Holding my breath in anticipation, I put a pine log on the mill.   And 20 minutes later I had some of the prettiest 4x8x12' beams you have ever seen ! 

I honestly don't know what the problem was but it appears the latest combination of adjustments cured it.   Or maybe the saywer God's just felt it was time to give me a break.  Either way, I am happy to be back in the action. 

8)
Go to work?  Probably Knott.  Because I cant.

Pabene

Good to see you are happy now. If you would have the same problem again it can be more to check like this: If you are looking down on your roller guides, from a bird position, the guide rollers shafts has to point a little to the right. (Let say the centerline for guide rollers shaft would be the minute hand on the watch, it has to show "a half minute past twelv".) That means when the roller flange starts to press the blade, the friktion bladeback to rollerflange, will keep the blade up in good contact to the rollers.
As I understod you had have the problem as soon the blade starts to be dull but it cut well when sharp.

Bruno of NH

Do you get frost around your mill?
In the spring I level mine every day
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

SawyerTed

Quote from: 50 Acre Jim on May 02, 2018, 09:01:11 PM
Next, I re-adjusted the band-wheels so that the teeth of the bandsaw blade were about ½" (perhaps a little more) away from the edge of the belt.  The blade teeth were much closer to the belt previously.  
This is very likely the solution to the diving problem.  The set was being removed from the inside teeth of the blade by riding on or very close to the wheels.
Regardless, I'm glad the sawmill is back to producing quality lumber and I hope it continues to do so.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

50 Acre Jim

Been using the saw all day, cut a bunch of 4x8x12 beams, 4x4 beams and a slew of 2xX, all without any drama.   So whatever I did when I reassembled the carrage has worked.  I wish I knew for sure just what it was but I may never really know for sure.

Anyhow, i'm up and working now, and that's a good thing.  

Thank you everyone for the handholding and all the help.

Jim
Go to work?  Probably Knott.  Because I cant.

Brad_bb

Quote from: 50 Acre Jim on May 02, 2018, 06:57:24 AMTheir final suggestion was to change back to the ceramic guides, which I did yesterday morning.  It made a little bit of difference. I found that if I cut extremely slow, and I mean extremely slow, I can push the blade through the log with minimal waviness.  
I'm glad you're cutting well now.  When you said this...slowing down allowed you to cut flat, tells me that your blade speed may not be what it should be.  Meaning that you may have a drive belt tension issue- slipping.
I don't know the workings of your mill.  I have a Woodmizer LT15.  I had some diving issues when drive belt tension was brought to my attention.  I was not aware that you had to monitor that.  I found out that WM had a simple tensioner tool and procedure.  I checked my drive belt tension and it WAS way too loose.  From then on I check it every 20 running hours or so.  It's a rubber V-belt and it does stretch over time.  If you have a similar drive system, Jim.  You should monitor the tension every so often to prevent an issue.
Regards, Brad
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

50 Acre Jim

Quote from: Brad_bb on May 03, 2018, 06:44:50 PM
Quote from: 50 Acre Jim on May 02, 2018, 06:57:24 AMTheir final suggestion was to change back to the ceramic guides, which I did yesterday morning.  It made a little bit of difference. I found that if I cut extremely slow, and I mean extremely slow, I can push the blade through the log with minimal waviness.  
I'm glad you're cutting well now.  When you said this...slowing down allowed you to cut flat, tells me that your blade speed may not be what it should be.  Meaning that you may have a drive belt tension issue- slipping.
I don't know the workings of your mill.  I have a Woodmizer LT15.  I had some diving issues when drive belt tension was brought to my attention.  I was not aware that you had to monitor that.  I found out that WM had a simple tensioner tool and procedure.  I checked my drive belt tension and it WAS way too loose.  From then on I check it every 20 running hours or so.  It's a rubber V-belt and it does stretch over time.  If you have a similar drive system, Jim.  You should monitor the tension every so often to prevent an issue.
Regards, Brad
Thank you Brad.  I have added several things to my maintenance check list and this is indeed one of them.  Thanks again!   
Jim
Go to work?  Probably Knott.  Because I cant.

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