Double wall oven cabinet and oven installation?

[Warbird]

Howdy gents.  Sears was having a smokin' 50% off sale on their double wall ovens last weekend and the Mrs decided it was time to get the oven she's been dreaming of for years (our current one is a 1970's GE model with no cabinet - I built a base and sat it on there when we remodeled the kitchen a year or two ago).  I ordered one of the hickory pre-made wall oven cabinets to match our other hickory cabinets.  The stove and cabinet should be here in a month.

Long story short, I have a couple of questions.  I will post some pics tonight or tomorrow to better explain.

1.  How is a wall oven cabinet typically installed?  Is it secured to the back wall?  This cabinet will be the end cabinet, next to the fridge.  It is 24" deep, which matches the base cabinets; however, the top/wall cabinets are only 12" deep and I don't rightly know how it's going to look?

2.  Installing the oven into the new cabinet - the cabinet comes with an opening too narrow and not tall enough.  What is the best way to cut the opening to the proper dimensions?  I was thinking of using a router but I'm no professional woodworker and have only used a router a couple of times.  Don't they have special router bits that don't require any jigs or anything, they just automatically chew off 1/2" or 3/8" or whatever?

Appreciate any advice you can give.  I have a couple other questions regarding the Corian countertop sticking out about 1/8" over the end of the base cabinet but will wait until I can get some pics posted.

[beenthere]

Warbird
Sounds like a great upgrade.

Typical to mount the wall cabinets secured to the back wall, but I'd think yours would also have a base cabinet below it to support the weight. Pics will help, also directions will come with it (what is the Sears part #, as the installation instructions may be available online).

For removing the wood to enlarge, if you have a hand held electric circular saw, then carefully plunge cut into the wood at sides and top, then use a hand saw to saw out to meet at the corners. Or a hand held sabre saw will work to. Just be sure there is a trim piece to dress up the saw cuts.

Router bits can have a small bearing on them that will ride against a stop to maintain depth, but not sure that fits well with your application. Pics will help

[metalspinner]

Does the cabinet have a face frame which over-lays the inside of the cabinet? Is there then enough clearance for your oven?

If so, I would use a router with a spiral bit to remove equal amounts from around the perimeter until the size opening is correct.  A straight edge clamped in place to guide the router would be the way I would do it.  Keep in mind the off-set from the edge of the bit to the guide bushing or baseplate - whichever you choose to use. Make sure to move the router in the correct direction or it will get away from you. 

Also, take several smaller cuts rather than one larger cut.  A larger cut with the router will increase the likelyhood of the wood splitting away.

The bit you mentioned is called a rabbeting bit.  Some have sets of guide bearings that you can use to remove a set amount of wood. On a finished project, I would hesitant to use this bit because of the straight cutter on them which increases the chances of the wood splitting away should the grain change direction.

[Warbird]

Okay, thanks guys.  Good suggestions. 

BT, I won't have the actual cabinet for a few more weeks but will try to scan the diagram/blueprint I have.  Will also get some pics posted of the install spot.  I'm concerned about the overall look because I think the oven cabinet will be a different height that the already installed wall cabinets.

I'll explain more when I can get some pics posted.

[Warbird]

Oh, also BT, the oven we ordered is a Kenmore Elite 27" double wall oven.  Model#  48173. 

This is the oven:  http://www.sears.com/kenmore-elite-27inch-double-wall-oven/p-02248173000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

And this is the installation guide (it doesn't talk much about the cabinet installation):  http://www.sears.com/kenmore-elite-27inch-double-wall-oven/p-02248173000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

[tcsmpsi]

Not sure what you have to work with, as far as what's there and what can be remodeled.  This is one of the approaches I have taken to blend in oven cabinets.



 

[DR Buck]

I installed an oven cabinet last year.  As was already said, screw it to the back wall.  Also fasten it to the base cabinet it will be sitting next to.   If they are faceframe cabinets and the frames overhang (1/8" or so) you may need to put a few shims in between to keep them from pulling into each other.  I don't like to screw face frames on taller cabinets to base cabinets faceframes because if you happen to twist the tall cabinet putting in the oven you can split the face frames.

Like Beenthere said, use a circular saw or sabre saw to trim faceframes back to fit in the oven.  Take equal amounts off of both sides to keep the oven centered.   Also cover the faceframe with painters tape to prevent scratching from the saw base plate.

[grweldon]

Not to hijack the thread, but...

DR_Buck...

I love your signature line...

"I got a shotgun, a shovel backhoe and 57 acres!"

Very similar to mine!  I love the addition of the backhoe...  I'm SURE you do!

[Warbird]

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.  The oven cabinet will be a different height than the already mounted wall cabinets.  We already have staggered cabinets in that area.  I have some pics on the phone - will get them posted later today.

[Warbird]

Here are the pics.  The oven cabinet is 84" high.  I didn't have time to get the measurements of the existing wall cabinets.  The small cabinet over the current oven/microwave will be removed.

Staggered heights with vaulted ceiling.  Hoping it will look good with the double oven cabinet?  Eventually, we will install crown moulding. 



Different view of staggered heights.



This is a view of the back wall and counter top the oven cabinet will be flush against.  I am going to have to move the (ugly) electrical outlet to the right, patch that hole, etc.



And this is a shot of the Corian counter top overhanging the base cabinet by ~1/8".  Not sure if I should figure out how to cut that Corian, throw a hickory spacer on the face of the base cabinet to offset, or what.  Might have to wait until the new cabinet gets in to see if it's face is proud from the side of the cabinet.  I'm hoping it is because if so, it might be just about right.  Otherwise, it could get messy and I'll have no idea how to make it look good.  :(  Actually, even if the face piece is proud, it'll still get messy.  Not sure what to do about that one.

[wheelinguy]

Warbird the cabinets should be at 84" to the top already unless they couldn't be because of your ceiling.  As far as making the cabinets come together at the base I would notch the face frame off the new cabinet around the corian, an 1/8" notch in the frame will work better than a small spacer and eliminate some of the gap that will be between the new cabinet and the existing countertop.  A small spacer would just break when you tried to fasten it.  Most cabinet face frames have a 1/4" overhang on the sides/back.

[Warbird]

Thanks.  Regarding notching the face/frame, keeping in mind this is hickory, what would be the cleanest and best way to notch it out?  If I end up not getting it perfect, I could get some hickory-colored silicone to put in the gap?

[Holmes]

From what I have seen over the years installing a double oven in a cabinet is a pita.   The face frame will need to be cut.  The base of the cabinet will [ should] hold the unit in place at the proper height.  The electrical connection quite often has to be cut out of the back of the cabinet, and on the last job they had to cut some of the wall out behind the cabinet to fit the wiring pigtail.  The carpenters took the oven in and out 5 times to get it to fit.  These units are quite heavy so sliding in and out is difficult. you may want to assemble a frame base to set the ovens on when moving in  and out.  Expect it to be difficult , then it might go easy.

[Warbird]

The top of the wall cabinets the oven cabinet will sit next to are 86 1/4" high.  :-\  Not sure how the 84" tall cabinet will look next to them.

Harumph.  I guess I could build a 2 1/4" base to put the oven cabinet on?  Or will it look fine being shorter than the wall cabinets?  ???

[metalspinner]

Or will it look fine being shorter than the wall cabinets? 

You will appreciate everything at the same height when it comes time to add your crown moulding.

[Warbird]

I knew someone would say that.  *sigh*  I'm not looking forward to this install anymore. 

Thanks for the advice and info, guys.

[Holmes]

 Instead of building a 2 1/4 base can you just add a filler to the top of the cabinet.  Maybe a Hickory 1x4  The crown molding will cover most of it.  It is not unusual to add fillers to the sides and tops of cabinets.

[Warbird]

Cool!  I like the sound of that a lot better.  Thanks for the idea!  I did tell you guys I'm not a professional carpenter by any stretch.  ;D

[Warbird]

Quick update:  I was at the place we ordered the cabinet from over the weekend.  Turns out they ordered it with a 'flush' finish on the sides.  It had added ~$150 to the cost.  They were able to cancel the order and re-order without it.

Good thing, too.  I wouldn't have been able to notch out the face piece around the Corian if it'd come with the sides flush to the face piece. 

[beenthere]

Warbird
What is the status of the new cabinet?

[DR Buck]

Harumph.  I guess I could build a 2 1/4" base to put the oven cabinet on?  Or will it look fine being shorter than the wall cabinets?  ???

I sure wouldn't do this as you may end up with the ovens to high and make it unsafe for pulling hot stuff out. 

Unless you wife is 6'4", you will be better off setting you cabinets at a max of 84" to the top.  Even if you have a sloped ceiling.  Makes for easier access to the top shelves.  Mine are all at 84" to the top but my wife is 5' and needs a step stool anyway.  ;D

[Warbird]

Hey guys, sorry for no updates for a while.  Had some problems getting the new cabinet here.  The oven has been sitting in the shop for a while.

I've got the cabinet and am hoping to install it tomorrow, after fixing up the wall and electrical.  I've gone over the installation instructions for the rails the oven will actually sit on.  Good grief.  They could've explained things better.  I'm no professional cabinet maker but I think I've got it figured out.

I'm also upset that they shipped the cabinet w/o the separator facing piece that goes between the top two doors.  Hard to explain but I'll get pics soon.  Instead of sending it back (it was SUCH a pain just to get it here), I will custom cut my own piece and install it after the everything else is done and the oven is functional.

[Warbird]

Got the wall repair done and the new outlet installed for where the fridge will plug in.  Just need to primer/paint, then it's onto the cabinet install.  April is off to see family for a week so I should have time to finally get this all wrapped up. 

[Warbird]

Update:

Here's what it looked like a week or two ago.  You can see my innovative patch in the sheetrock.  Given the tiny counter top space there, the wife was fine with me simply removing the double gang electrical outlet.  I ran an entirely new line for the fridge (not pictured here).  I spray textured to match but the paint Lowe's sold us, which was supposed to be a perfect match, is not.  :(  We'll be repainting the kitchen to a lighter color this spring anyway.



And here's what it looks like right now.  Just got done cutting the face opening large enough.  This oven is barely going to fit.  I had to chisel/notch the face of the cabinet (thanks for that suggestion by the way! And thanks to my friend Josh for bringing over his sharp chisels and special saw!) to go around the Corian counter top.  But then I noted that the cabinet face is exactly 27" wide on the outside edge.  Well the new oven doors are ALSO 27" wide on the outside edges.  So that notch meant the door would hit the counter top.

Break out the belt sander!!  After calling the company that installed the counter tops for us 4 years ago, I got a hold of their owner.  He told me Corian shapes sort of like wood.  So I shaped it out of the way and repolished it.  Looks decent.

I did have to put a spacer piece between the upper wall cabinet and the oven cabinet.  Turned out very nice.  I only had to cut it twice.   :



I will have a bunch more before and after pics in the next few days, once I've completed it.  This project has been a huge pain to do (mostly) by myself.  I hope to have the oven in by tomorrow.  It's going to be a tight fit and I need to get the electric box installed in the back of the cabinet just right.

[beenthere]

Doing great there Warbird.  I was thinking about sending out a call to see how the project was going. Good timing.
Now you will be taking on all sorts of handyman projects, seeing as this one is turning out so well.  ;D