Need some help with pricing - pulease!

[oklalogdog]

I purchased a Timberking 1220 about 6 months ago for my own use as we are building a log home.  I live near Hinton Oklahoma and tonight I had a local fellow called me and wants me to saw up some ERC for his new porch.  He also has a friend in a neighboring town who needs some ERC for a deck.  We don't really have any millers in the area and he was ecstatic that I might be available to do the job.

I explained to him that cutting and limbing and hauling a tree was hard work and that I would rather he would bring his own logs for me to saw.  He said that would be fine as he had ERC on his place but he wanted me to price it both ways.

Here's the deal - I don't even know where to start as far as pricing.  Any help in this area would greatly be appreciated.

[Magicman]

Since your sawmill is really not geared up for "production", personally I would quote a bf rate for the sawing.  $250 per Mbf is a good average sawing rate.  This will also give you an opportunity to gain sawing experience as well as an opportunity to time yourself and evaluate your production.

[Mountain State Farm]

I agree with MM, $250.00 is the going rate around here but you may want to make a few calls and see what the rate is in your area. I would not think it could be less since there are so few in the area.

[oklalogdog]

Thanks guys - that gives me something to go by and a starting point.  I am thinking of maybe a graduated rate per number of cuts required.  More for the thinner boards and less for the thicker - dunno - just an idea.

[Magicman]

Some folks do, but my rate is across the board, same rate.  It all averages out and it makes scaling/and figuring more simple.

I talked with a new customer this morning quoting a sawing rate.  He was obviously pleased when I told him that my rate was the same regardless of the board thickness.

[oklalogdog]

Yeah I see your point - heckuva lot simpler.

[Brucer]

No matter what thickness you are sawing, you still have to load the log, turn it, level it, and open it up. When you are sawing big stuff, it takes fewer cuts to break down a cant but then you have to handle heavier pieces. Customers like it when things are simple.

For custom sawing, I have 3 rates: $.45 per BF if the owner supplies a helper; $.75 per BF if there is no helper; and $75 per meter hour for specialty stuff. I also switch to the hourly rate if it works out to less than the BF rate -- that rewards the customer who makes things easy for me.

[1woodguy]

I have talked to several Sawers in my area of Oklahoma last spring
Price was 25cents ,32and35 cents  and a guy that  wanted 60 cents to cut cedar

the 35 cent man charged for blades and wanted 50 bucks to come here and wanted to cut minimum several m bf at 35bf and I supplied help  And logs had to be at least 10 inch small end of log
      and if I brought logs to him on a trailer he would unload price was still 35cents  I tell him cut list and he would call when he was done
The 25bf man if I brought to him. Didn't give a time frame as to when he would get them cut it was when he got to it.
    the 32bf man said call  he would tell me when to bring logs and he would cut while I was there if it was all  cedar on trailer
I have heard that there are afew retired guys around who will cut for 20 cents
  None wanted to drop and limb  they wanted in log form

[Gasawyer]

$0.25 a bd. ft. is my rate for cedar 1"  $0.30< 1".  I also charge for hitting foreign material in logs and mileage if I go to them. Make sure that if customer is bringing logs to you that they are close limbed and don't look like a porcupine.

[Cedarman]

$.50 for sawing cedar.  Less than 1" same as 1".  Over 1" by actual board foot.
$1.20 if I supply the lumber from my own trees for 8'.
$1.35 for longer or shorter than 8'.

[Kansas]

Cedarman would be right in the ballpark. We are at .45, but if someone brings in crap to saw it reverts to an hourly basis. Cedar can be a problem on custom cutting. Customers bring in logs that they declare they trimmed up, but they still left 6 inch stubs all the way around. Or, they get the first generation ones that start out 18 inches at the base and drop to 6 or 8 inches at 8 foot.

[paul case]

There are a few guys near me that saw and charge from $.25 to $.35. I charge $.30. the cutting down and hauling is another deal. The cheapest I have found is $.15 and those logs are poor or odd stuff,  and only cost me $.10. Yeah for $.25 I have been geting logs hauled in but that is oak. The cedar should cost a little more. They are usually small and hairy to cut. I wouldnt do it for less than $.35.
Good luck and be carefull not to price anything you dont want to do, you may find yourself doing it.

PC

[CalebL]

A little advice on giving a price to cut cedar in this area.  Never never never ever ever ever give a price on cutting cedar until you can see what their cedar looks like.  I learned that the hard way. 

[Magicman]

I will only saw ERC by hourly rate.

[GeorgeK]

Have not cut ceder what is the problem with it?

[mikeb1079]

Have not cut ceder what is the problem with it?

from the little of cedar i've seen/sawn the problem is not with the actual sawing.  the problem is that often the logs are very small, or have limb stubs everywhere, or have huge tapers (like from 20" at the base to 10" at 8') or all three.   :D :D

one of the more experienced guys can correct me if i'm wrong.

[customsawyer]

I would saw at one rate if I take the mill to the customer and give a small discount if the logs are brought to the mill. I would have to look at the logs before I give a price on cedar.

[Magicman]

There is no problem with good ERC logs, but some are heavily fluted, taper can be a problem, and then there is internal rot.  I have sawed many ERC logs that produced no usable lumber.  Scaling tapered live edge boards and shorts can be challenging.  The log handling/lumber yield ratio can be very low.


 
I sawed it, but there was nothing inside.  Sure, I could have scaled it and charged bf rate, but hourly rate was simple,

[WoodenHead]

I haven't sawn hickory or some of the other hardwoods people complain about, but for me cedar is the worst!  As mentioned, you are dealing with rot, taper, small diameter and around here it is shaped like a banana no matter how you put it on the mill.

[Magicman]

BUT, some ERC is VERY nice $$


 
I always saw this customer by the bf.


 
A good day.   

[stumpy]

I understand the problems with cedar, but what I don't understand is why would anyone who charges by the board foot, charge only for the useable yield.  Weather the log is clear and solid, or rotted and full of knots, it still takes time to saw. The sawyer has no control over what's inside a log, so why should he lose money when the log is unusable.  This is one reason I charge by the hour.

[CalebL]

Have not cut ceder what is the problem with it?

from the little of cedar i've seen/sawn the problem is not with the actual sawing.  the problem is that often the logs are very small, or have limb stubs everywhere, or have huge tapers (like from 20" at the base to 10" at 8') or all three.   :D :D

one of the more experienced guys can correct me if i'm wrong.

No, you pretty much nailed it. 

If the customer hasn't had cedar cut before, you will most likely have to educate him on what makes a good cedar log.

[Magicman]

EXACTLY.  It is hard for me to charge a customer for a bad product, but I have no problem charging a customer for the time to saw his log and produce a bad product.

[1woodguy]

As far as the logging part as far as I know guys cutting cedar around me are getting $40 or 50 per hour to clear some out lots are just burned

   last two I cut they paid if I recall correctly $800,they wanted a gazebo and cedars in way

 

[ely]

i charge.25 bdft. no matter what thickness. if its less than an inch its still the same as if its an inch. if i had to cut big beams i would adjust my charge accordingly.
in hinton okla, i doubt you will have much for competition, be careful or everyone will be hauling fence posts to you wanting to have it all cut in 1x 12's :D