short truck

Matt601 · March 06, 2018, 12:41:09 AM

Im looking to build a short log truck. the mill buys 12.5 to 16.5 foot logs and full pupwood and chip and saw. Looking at trucks I'm wanting a international 4700 with a dt466 5 speed. Question is how many inch from cab to center axle do i need to run a cabrack and 11 foot apart boasters?

starmac · March 06, 2018, 02:29:33 AM

This will not be a lot of help, because it is a tandem axle, but when I use short log bunks on mine, I have 14 between them and 21 feet between the headache rack and trailer hitch. I haul 24 foot logs and let them stick out 3 to 4 feet over the trailer tongue. The trick is putting your front bunk in the right place to get the right amount on your steer axle. I started out too far back, and was light on the steer I think, never scaled it, when I moved it forward, it handled better, but I think I was too heavy, but the direction I go with the short logs, I do not have to cross a scale and we sell those by the load, not ton or board foot. So I don't know how close or far off I was.

mike_belben · March 06, 2018, 09:07:11 AM

Hopefully you find one with a p-pump (ngd series, 93 to 95ish)

I think i would choose an auto over the 4+1 manual. I went to a 13spd behind my 466C.

Matt601 · March 06, 2018, 09:55:02 AM

Quote from: mike_belben on March 06, 2018, 09:07:11 AM
Hopefully you find one with a p-pump (ngd series, 93 to 95ish)

I think i would choose an auto over the 4+1 manual. I went to a 13spd behind my 466C.

That's all I have ever had. (5 speed) Does a auto pull OK? I seen a good many for sale. I got a 1990 now and it pulls great. Only reason I want another truck is my son will be driving soon and we can have 2 running. One with pup and one saw logs. I hate having pup stacked up on the side. We have to carry it twice as far as saw logs so its the last to get loaded now. Pup is what we pay the fuel bill with.

mike_belben · March 06, 2018, 09:55:55 PM

To be honest i cant say how a 466 auto would be, ive not ever drove one. My truck had a 4+1 and it was like 2 takeoff gears, one around town and one county road gear. Wouldnt break 50mph so couldnt run highway. The gaps were so enormous i didnt feel it was all that safe to drive in a busy area. If you had someone slow on a hill in front of you, forget it. Had to stop fully to get in takeoff gear and run the hill in 1st or 2nd. It just wouldnt shift, maybe bad synchros, but i needed a double OD so the RTOO went in.

My guess is an auto wouldnt have been coasting along looking for a gear like i was. It woulda been climbing the hill.

Grizzly · March 06, 2018, 10:08:52 PM

Single drive axle? Then you want about 2/3 of the load over the drive or 11ft of it. So 5.5 ft of the load and the remaining 5.5ft leaves around 11ft from boc (back of cab) to axle center. Tandem drive? Then you want 3/4 of the load centered on the axle group. Or 12.375ft. So half of that plus the remaining 4.125ft equals 10.3125ft from boc cab to center of axle group. Rough numbers I've worked with over the years.

Matt601 · March 06, 2018, 10:16:22 PM

Yea Mine is like that too. 90% of my runs are less than 25 miles I just poke along.

Im at work (offshore) and been looking at trucks online. I want to get another when I get home fount a lot of box trucks been trying to fig out what how for back from the cab I need my axle I will be adding a drag axle too. I don't want to get one too long or too short when I can buy what I need and not have to shorting the or add to it when there all about the same price. Im thinking 120 inchs would be OK with my boasters 11 foot apart.

Matt601 · March 06, 2018, 10:17:11 PM

Quote from: Grizzly on March 06, 2018, 10:08:52 PM
Single drive axle? Then you want about 2/3 of the load over the drive or 11ft of it. So 5.5 ft of the load and the remaining 5.5ft leaves around 11ft from boc (back of cab) to axle center. Tandem drive? Then you want 3/4 of the load centered on the axle group. Or 12.375ft. So half of that plus the remaining 4.125ft equals 10.3125ft from boc cab to center of axle group. Rough numbers I've worked with over the years.

Thank you

jason.weir · March 06, 2018, 10:35:13 PM

Quote from: mike_belben on March 06, 2018, 09:55:55 PM
To be honest i cant say how a 466 auto would be, ive not ever drove one. My truck had a 4+1 and it was like 2 takeoff gears, one around town and one county road gear. Wouldnt break 50mph so couldnt run highway. The gaps were so enormous i didnt feel it was all that safe to drive in a busy area. If you had someone slow on a hill in front of you, forget it. Had to stop fully to get in takeoff gear and run the hill in 1st or 2nd. It just wouldnt shift, maybe bad synchros, but i needed a double OD so the RTOO went in.

I've driven a light single axle International Bucket truck with the DT466 turbo and a 3 speed automatic. Gutless pig won't do 50 unless you're on a downhill run. Put any load behind it just forget it. This was a electric utility truck and very well may have been de-tuned or governed low. One time I moved a JD 450 dozer behind it and was lucky to hit 35mph..

I'd want a 5\2 transmission at a minimum and tuned for more than 150hp..

Riwaka · March 06, 2018, 10:45:10 PM

There are adjustable log truck bunks/ bolsters so you can move the spacing. (Need a transport/ truck lawyer and certed transport/ truck engineer in many places to get the the dimesnions, weights etc right before setting out on the road.)
Timber bunk. Timber bunks D-Series | ExTe

cab racks are getting another look at in places due to the aluminium failures in recent years and the processes that have happened afterwards.

I don't know where you are located but there is a battle going on in some places with the people who want to legislate the old trucks off the road or make the truck owners retrofit pollution gear. So before you purchase an old truck you should investigate what pollution gear can be fitted to the truck's existing engine, how expensive it might be to fit a higher tier replacement engine versus the cost of buying a younger truck already with the higher tier engine, problems that have occurred with various engines - acert etc. Hydrogen generators, dpf, def etc
How will Oregon clean up diesel air pollution? - YouTube (Oregon - gas torching a hole in a 1994 Kenworth to scrap it.)

In part a possible backlash to earlier old truck dumping from Cali
Oregon becomes dumping ground for California's old, polluting diesel big rigs | OregonLive.com

No words....
Crash involving logging trucks sends logs through truck?s cab | KIRO-TV

Matt601 · March 06, 2018, 10:49:26 PM

Quote from: Riwaka on March 06, 2018, 10:45:10 PM
There are adjustable log truck bunks/ bolsters so you can move the spacing. (Need a transport/ truck lawyer and certed transport/ truck engineer in many places to get the the dimesnions, weights etc right before setting out on the road.)
Timber bunk. Timber bunks D-Series | ExTe

cab racks are getting another look at in places due to the aluminium failures in recent years and the processes that have happened afterwards.

I don't know where you are located but there is a battle going on in some places with the people who want to legislate the old trucks off the road or make the truck owners retrofit pollution gear. So before you purchase an old truck you should investigate what pollution gear can be fitted to the truck's existing engine, how expensive it might be to fit a higher tier replacement engine versus the cost of buying a younger truck already with the higher tier engine, problems that have occurred with various engines - acert etc. Hydrogen generators, dpf, def etc
How will Oregon clean up diesel air pollution? - YouTube (Oregon - gas torching a hole in a 1994 Kenworth to scrap it.)

In part a possible backlash to earlier old truck dumping from Cali
Oregon becomes dumping ground for California's old, polluting diesel big rigs | OregonLive.com

No words....
Crash involving logging trucks sends logs through truck?s cab | KIRO-TV

Im in Mississippi It really dont matter how old it is as long as everything works. Hope there be a flood of cheap trucking on the marked.

Matt601 · March 06, 2018, 10:53:47 PM

Quote from: jason.weir on March 06, 2018, 10:35:13 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on March 06, 2018, 09:55:55 PM
To be honest i cant say how a 466 auto would be, ive not ever drove one. My truck had a 4+1 and it was like 2 takeoff gears, one around town and one county road gear. Wouldnt break 50mph so couldnt run highway. The gaps were so enormous i didnt feel it was all that safe to drive in a busy area. If you had someone slow on a hill in front of you, forget it. Had to stop fully to get in takeoff gear and run the hill in 1st or 2nd. It just wouldnt shift, maybe bad synchros, but i needed a double OD so the RTOO went in.
I've driven a light single axle International Bucket truck with the DT466 turbo and a 3 speed automatic. Gutless pig won't do 50 unless you're on a downhill run. Put any load behind it just forget it. This was a electric utility truck and very well may have been de-tuned or governed low. One time I moved a JD 450 dozer behind it and was lucky to hit 35mph..

I'd want a 5\2 transmission at a minimum and tuned for more than 150hp..

Thanks That is what i was thinking. I dont mine going slow Just want it to pull around 50 MPH. With my truck now I can pull 18 tons at 55 MPH no problem. Now we dont have a lot of hills and stuff. I try to stay right around the house. If you get over to the Mississippi river around Natchez MS we have sharp hills and it pull them 50MPH if i have a running start on it.

mike_belben · March 06, 2018, 10:56:13 PM

By now most of them have had the Orings in that silly AFC hardpipe that goes from the manifold to the back of the injection pump crack apart. So what happens is the manifold boost is leaking out before it gets to apply pressure to the afc aneroid diaphragm, which would travel the rack and give fuel, creating boost. Mine was shot and i couldnt get to 35 empty when i bought it.

The MW and P pumps are very easy to turn up. I ported the intake, head and exh manifold. The OEM turbos are all turds. I now run a S259 t3 divided, 4x.014 injectors, 3inch charge piping and a huge air to water intercooler i fabbed. itll make 35psi.. Id guess 250-300 hp. Dont push the timing too far tho, they get real hard starting and eat headgaskets. Ive done 3. I wouldnt run more than 16* or so. 23* was fun, but expensive. And no i do not roll coal at all.

In stock form you cannot hurt a dt466 with your foot the floor, they were tuned not to make enough power for damage if fluids stayed up.

mike_belben · March 06, 2018, 11:00:33 PM

Hills are a bugger. Mine was a moving truck and it was 990 miles one way. About 20% of the ride was flat.

dirthawger · March 06, 2018, 11:16:07 PM

Hey if your looking for that log loader, get on Facebook marketplace and search a 100mi radius of SW Missouri and search for log loader. He agreed to sell it to me for $3000 or a better buy in my opinion, in Tennessee there's a self loading log truck, Mack for $10k, I was gonna buy it until I found the one I just bought. There's also an 81 freightliner log loader truck in OK for 28k

Matt601 · March 06, 2018, 11:25:37 PM

Quote from: mike_belben on March 06, 2018, 10:56:13 PM
By now most of them have had the Orings in that silly AFC hardpipe that goes from the manifold to the back of the injection pump crack apart. So what happens is the manifold boost is leaking out before it gets to apply pressure to the afc aneroid diaphragm, which would travel the rack and give fuel, creating boost. Mine was shot and i couldnt get to 35 empty when i bought it.

The MW and P pumps are very easy to turn up. I ported the intake, head and exh manifold. The OEM turbos are all turds. I now run a S259 t3 divided, 4x.014 injectors, 3inch charge piping and a huge air to water intercooler i fabbed. itll make 35psi.. Id guess 250-300 hp. Dont push the timing too far tho, they get real hard starting and eat headgaskets. Ive done 3. I wouldnt run more than 16* or so. 23* was fun, but expensive. And no i do not roll coal at all.

In stock form you cannot hurt a dt466 with your foot the floor, they were tuned not to make enough power for damage if fluids stayed up.
Thats why I like them so much I might be a little slow but Im not going to tear it up.

In my drag car I make 60 psi of boost but I have to rebuild it ever 350 passes!!!! My work stuff I like to stay stock as much as I can.

Matt601 · March 07, 2018, 08:52:46 AM

Quote from: dirthawger on March 06, 2018, 11:16:07 PM
Hey if your looking for that log loader, get on Facebook marketplace and search a 100mi radius of SW Missouri and search for log loader. He agreed to sell it to me for $3000 or a better buy in my opinion, in Tennessee there's a self loading log truck, Mack for $10k, I was gonna buy it until I found the one I just bought. There's also an 81 freightliner log loader truck in OK for 28k

I cant find that one in SW Missouri. There a self loading truck right down the road from me they want 10,000 for but at 2.5 tons I don't want to carry the loader around with me all the time. If you get 4 loads a day of saw logs that's $300 bucks you cant carry and there goes your fuel money for the day. What Im thinking about doing is getting or building a small trailer for the loader that I can carry my Tractor on too. Big dreams and its got to pay for its self as I go

mike_belben · March 07, 2018, 11:21:50 AM

Yeah, im in that club too. The president actually. We are looking for a treasurer btw, interested?

Seriously its an easy gig since theres no money to account for. We are a 501(c)3 not ever gonna profit organization.

Matt601 · March 07, 2018, 08:34:08 PM

My day job is OIM (Offshore Installation Manager) I work 35 days offshore and get 35 days off to log. I keep the books and and bill who we are working for. Its help me start my logging company. Back in the late 80's and early 90's When I was in high school I had 2 pupwood trucks. I got out when things went to long wood.. A few years ago I had 15 loads I wanted cut off my place and couldn't find anyone to cut it that's when I got my truck. Paid for its self then a Tractor. Now I'm wanted to add another truck and a loader. To make money I have to be able to move fast. Sometimes people will have one or two loads they give me just to cut them. I cant take all day to move in and cut 2 loads. I might hit 2 or 3 LO in a day. But its all free and I make good money at it. The reason I want another truck is my son is driving now Im getting him a non CDL truck that I can put 8 to 10 tons on. I have been getting a good many people wanting me to cut 15 to 30 arcs too so a small truck will help me with pupwood. Slowly getting bigger not getting a loan. I pay my bills with my day job. So I can put all my logging money back in to it. I try to use my time to the best I can. When its wet I cut down and when i can bunch logs on the weekends I do. Save time and carry as many tons a week you can is the only way to make it in logging.

Riwaka · March 10, 2018, 03:45:13 AM

Just a general trucking post
Flat deck multi purpose. Swedish bolsters, crane, trailer. longs, shorts , pulp and moving loggers gear- porta coms, fuel tanks.

You tube title
[color=var(--ytd-video-primary-info-renderer-title-color, var(--yt-primary-text-color))]ExTe Quick Lock system - flat deck drop-in stakes[/color]

Ohio_Bill · March 10, 2018, 07:59:48 AM

Here is my short log truck . It can haul 7 ton legal and is under 26000 gvw . I haul 18 ft pulp with it from time to time . I use it most of the time for saw logs .

Matt601 · March 10, 2018, 09:36:24 AM

how far from cab to center axle are you running Bill?

mike_belben · March 10, 2018, 10:37:07 AM

^{That is a very common cumberland plateau log truck, except make it 50yrs older.}

^{While back there was a cabover white with hendrickson, lockers and and a prentice for $7k. I wanted it pretty bad but not in the cards.}

Dave Shepard · March 10, 2018, 07:09:29 PM

Quote from: Ohio_Bill on March 10, 2018, 07:59:48 AM
Here is my short log truck . It can haul 7 ton legal and is under 26000 gvw . I haul 18 ft pulp with it from time to time . I use it most of the time for saw logs .

I'd agree, 7 ton is about the limit for under cdl. In MA, you don't need a cdl for farm plates. We have a 1991 4900 with a DTA466@250 and 7 speed. It would be a great combination, if you could get it in an under cdl truck.

Resonator · March 10, 2018, 08:29:03 PM

If I was going to spec. out a truck for myself, I would look into the cost of putting air-weight scales on the suspension. Especially if you're on a tonnage haul with a smaller truck, and want to get your monies worth (legally) each load.

starmac · March 10, 2018, 08:37:01 PM

You have to have air ride suspension fir the air weigh scales, Then you only have an idea of what is on the rear. If specing one out, might as well go for electronic scales and know exactly what you are weighing.

Skeans1 · March 10, 2018, 08:47:47 PM

And if going electronic especially if you're loading get a wireless set up.

starmac · March 10, 2018, 08:58:11 PM

Quote from: Skeans1 on March 10, 2018, 08:47:47 PM
And if going electronic especially if you're loading get a wireless set up.

Ok, who makes it and is it completely wireless, or just the monitor?

Resonator · March 10, 2018, 09:03:35 PM

According to the air weigh website, they measure the air suspension load on the drive axle, and have deflection sensors on the front axle springs to measure weight.

Skeans1 · March 10, 2018, 09:12:30 PM

Quote from: starmac on March 10, 2018, 08:58:11 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on March 10, 2018, 08:47:47 PM
And if going electronic especially if you're loading get a wireless set up.

Ok, who makes it and is it completely wireless, or just the monitor?

The new Vulcan is just a display but in years past they did have a full wireless set up we ran ran of wireless for a few years till recently.

starmac · March 10, 2018, 10:25:01 PM

Vulcan is what I run, but didn't even know they had a wireless option.

Skeans1 · March 10, 2018, 10:44:30 PM

They're a great option for an owner operator that loads their own truck or if you need to stand out of the cab well well being loaded.

starmac · March 10, 2018, 11:19:59 PM

I can see my monitor while standing outside, but in all reality it works better to sit in the truck, when getting close, so I can talk to the loader operator on the radio. I have seen the dual monitor option so you can have one on the self loader, on a self load truck.

A wireless one that I could take to the loader, when I load my own truck would be extra nice though.

Skeans1 · March 11, 2018, 12:20:28 AM

This is what we run with the standard one in the cab
V700 REMOTE DISPLAY | Vulcan

starmac · March 11, 2018, 01:12:45 AM

Thanks Skeans, I will have to look in to that unit, it works with what I have, so would be a no brainer.

Ohio_Bill · March 11, 2018, 02:16:47 PM

Quote from: Matt601 on March 10, 2018, 09:36:24 AM
how far from cab to center axle are you running Bill?

10 foot 6 inches

tnpete · March 25, 2018, 03:09:18 PM

I had a truck that would have been perfect for you. But sold it and wish I had it back. 1987 Ford F800, had the 7.8 Ford Diesel in it. 10 Speed road ranger trans and 24.5 tires and wheels. It had a 60" sleeper on it. But I had done some measuring on it. And with that 5ft sleeper, and then 7ft to the rear axle. I could run a 5th wheel plate. Or 3 or so hours have the sleeper off it. And close up the hole, Mount bunks on it and haul short wood.
Ran up on a guy in Tuscumbia Al. He has the same truck. And had a side loader on his. I talked with him, and he told me it worked perfect for him. So you might look for one of those. Plus that 7.8 sipped fuel. And pulled like crazy. I only pulled around 20,000 lb trailer with it. But Did not know it was back there. Top speed around 68 MPH.
https://youtu.be/cit49wAEY80 But it had air brakes and air ride.

starmac · March 25, 2018, 03:50:02 PM

tnpete, exactly what is a side loader.

tnpete · March 25, 2018, 05:06:55 PM

Quote from: starmac on March 25, 2018, 03:50:02 PM
tnpete, exactly what is a side loader.

Throws the logs up on the truck. Here's video that shows it towards the end. Used to be 30 years ago, everyone in West Tn, Ms or Al had one. That or a cable loader. Or we loaded short wood, sideways on the truck by hand.
Logging Mules - YouTube

starmac · March 25, 2018, 05:32:34 PM

Thanks for that video, heard about those years ago, but that is the first I have seen in action. It sure looks likes it beats on the truck.

Matt601 · March 25, 2018, 11:31:01 PM

There a GMC for sale in North MS that has a side loader on it. Back in the late 80's early 90's I had a truck with a side loader on it. It works good for saw logs but pulp I didn't like it too much because too much was hanging off the back. I have 2 loaders Barko 80 one on my truck the other on a trailer. What I have been looking at is International 4700 or 4900. Put 8 foot boosters on. I can load 15 to 20 tons on.

Dave Shepard · March 26, 2018, 09:17:12 AM

4900 tandam, maybe. Not on a single axle.

Matt601 · March 26, 2018, 09:26:37 AM

We can add a drag axle in MS.

barbender · March 26, 2018, 12:44:26 PM

DT466, more gears the better👍 I drove a lot of straight trucks with 466 "power"😁, and 8LL transmissions. The tri-axle end dumps were adequate (I think they were grossing 58K or so), but the redi-mix trucks with the same set up were pretty piggy. They had 3 tag axles, plus the power loss of turning the drum. I don't remember the gross, 70K or so.For occasional log hauling though, they would suffice. I wouldn't want anything with less than a 5+2 or an 8LL however.

mike_belben · March 26, 2018, 08:53:28 PM

13 is just enough.

starmac · March 26, 2018, 09:17:04 PM

Quote from: mike_belben on March 26, 2018, 08:53:28 PM
13 is just enough.

But it doesn't have the low gear that 8ll does.

If you get a pup and pull loads like you are talking about, that a 466 will be worked hard, so will a single screw with a tag.

Matt601 · March 26, 2018, 10:48:20 PM

Quote from: barbender on March 26, 2018, 12:44:26 PM
DT466, more gears the better👍 I drove a lot of straight trucks with 466 "power"😁, and 8LL transmissions. The tri-axle end dumps were adequate (I think they were grossing 58K or so), but the redi-mix trucks with the same set up were pretty piggy. They had 3 tag axles, plus the power loss of turning the drum. I don't remember the gross, 70K or so.For occasional log hauling though, they would suffice. I wouldn't want anything with less than a 5+2 or an 8LL however.

The 5 -2 works great. I crossed the scale with 58K before. now your not going to be speeding. 50 MPH is max.

mike_belben · March 27, 2018, 08:10:40 AM

I have 4.78s and 9R's so my low side is a lot like a deep reduction. It was highway where i needed more steps especially in the hills. With a RTOO and .62 top gear i can go 80 or 85.

starmac · March 27, 2018, 09:42:49 AM

Yea, it is a trade off, I have 529's in my logtruck with a 15 spd, a thirteen with the ability would be nice on the highway, but not willing to give up my deep reduction, and I would lose a little topend too, which would not be good, and I generally do not run much highway anyway.

I have never run a 466 a lot and never with an 8LL, but have run a L10 cummins with one, and the tranny complimited the small engine pretty well.

mike_belben · March 27, 2018, 10:37:45 AM

Theyre a pretty decent simple old tractor engine and i wish i had more of them.

Above 30K gross they arent gonna lug their way to victory. Gotta just drop a gear, be patient and let'r breathe. Hilly and urban is their nemesis. Rush hour Scranton/binghampton/port jervis is a terrible spot for me.

Matt601 · March 27, 2018, 01:30:50 PM

I can fill up once a week and run 40 miles round trip 2 time a day with My DT466. Now IM not going to be doing much over 50 but thats ok. There a pulpwood yard with in 25 miles anywhere down here and saw log with in 15 miles. pulpwood I can only put about 15 to 18 tons on logs 18 to 20 tons. I really like my truck. Buddy of mine has a short truck but his boosters are 14 foot apart. he has a 3208 cat in it with a 10 speed. he likes it and he will out run me to the mill but i be there before he is unloaded. He will spend 2 times the fuel I will too.

starmac · March 27, 2018, 05:18:09 PM

I have a non turbo 3208 and one of the old cheesy 13 spd's in a little twin screw straight truck. It will climb a tree, but you aren't going anywhere in a hurry, she tops out at 55.