changing track for a circle mill

lumberlady · October 13, 2003, 02:42:13 PM

we are changing the track in our corley circle mill.we set new concrete piers to lay the iron on and then we are laying the track. the old track had the v-side next to the saw. we are changing this because the book we have says the v-track is suppose to be on the other side.we are having new wheels made for the carriage also. has anyone ever done this? if you have we would appreciate any advise you could offer.first time for everything but advise from some one who knows what their doing will make it so much better(maybe it will keep hubby out of the doghouse) ;)he gets cranky if things dont go right
??? ???thanks a million

Jeff · October 13, 2003, 02:51:11 PM

The v side absolutely goes on the opposite side away from the saw. Think about it. if you roll a great big log on the the carriage, and the carriage tips up, you gotta have that guide track keeping the carriage from sliding off. Mos debri that comes off the saw will fall on the rail near the saw, hardly ever on the far rail. If somehow you miss a piece of debri and run over it, the v guide on the far side may help keep the carriage from jumping off.

If you are using a hydraulic turner, its easy to lift the side of that carriage, and without that guide rail on the other side, off she goes!

Ron Wenrich · October 13, 2003, 04:30:46 PM

Actually, if you are using hydraulic turner, those grooved wheels won't keep the carriage on the track. You need the interlocking pieces of angle from the carriage to the track to keep it secure.

Real early mills had the guide track on the saw side. I have no idea the reason. I did see one mill that ran their carriage into the saw when there was a piece of bark on the track. The carriage moved off the track when it hit the bark. Only one tooth was left on the saw and the sawyer took shrapnel to the leg.

Changing your grooved wheels shouldm't be that hard of a project. We replaced ours on a larger carriage, as well as the flat ones.

But, you must keep your guide track straight and the square to the saw. If you get any variation, you can have problems with sawing. You have to use a minimum of a string line from one end to the other. Best if the carriage is removed from the track.

Laser alignment is another alternative.

Jeff · October 13, 2003, 05:04:57 PM

I think Laser alignment is almost a must. Remember when you start weldingdown that new track it will draw. Make sure the guy doing the installation keeps tabs on this. That straight track is critical

Sawyerfortyish · October 13, 2003, 05:58:55 PM

Don't use a string they sag and if you have a slight wind they sway sideways. I strung a fine wire and cranked it up tight. but the laser is best.

D._Frederick · October 13, 2003, 08:06:25 PM

Lady,
I think that the way you are putting the track down, I would weld ears to the track, then drill and bolt the ears to your steel. It is more work, but the alignment will be better, you don't have to worry about weld warp or pull. You can also shim low spots in the track.

Jeff · October 13, 2003, 08:11:50 PM

Never saw it done that way. If the track is shimmed it cant have "Hollow" areas beneath it. Eventually they will become the low spots. I guess I must be picturing more modern track. There is no place to bolt them on. Basically the guide rail is hex stock. The flat rail is square.

D._Frederick · October 13, 2003, 09:02:09 PM

Jeff,
What I was thinking for guide track for that old of a mill was an up side down angle iron, I would weld short length of bar stock to the bottom of the Vee's. But the whole problem is what is being used for a track frame, if they are using hot rolled I-beams or channel iron, they will have a hard time finding straight material. Tubing is better but the cost is about 3 times higher. Maybe you get better material from the east coast, but most of the outlets here handle iron from off-shore.

woodhaven · October 14, 2003, 04:51:36 AM

LumberLady,
I'm the odd ball in this bunch. I disagree on the track comments. I have my guide track on the saw side. My track is screwed down for a number of reasons. While you are building always keep thinking about how you are going to fix things on make improvements in the future.
If I were going to build a new mill today I would do it just like I built this one 15 years ago. I figure if everything has worked right for that long I did something right. Books are just like people they are a reflection of the person who wrote it. We have all had differant experiances.

lumberlady · October 14, 2003, 09:58:18 AM

woodhaven,
my husbands uncle put this mill together some years ago.
we have had this mill 4 yrs now and sawed good lumber with it. actually many people have said that the lumber we cut was better than they have seen as far as same thickness goes.
we are changing the track because of improper thickness in the lumber now. the old track has dips and is causing thick and thinness in the lumber. i agree with you we never had that much problem with the v-track being on the saw side.
we are putting it the right way this time. we hope to have just as good results as before. let you know how it comes out. hope to be back to work by monday. ;D

woodhaven · October 14, 2003, 02:37:01 PM

I'm sure everything will work fine that way. You will need to add track cleaners that you may not have needed before. A piece of bark or sawdust on the flat track will cause the carriage to bump along and make a bad cut.
If you are having thickness problems you might want to take a good look at the carriage trucks and bearings.

Ron, You said
Real early mills had the guide track on the saw side. I have no idea the reason.

Well I have no idea why the flat track would be next to the saw. I see in the books it is on the saw side as you state. In my case I see every reason for the guide on the saw side. I guess I am not seeing something right because in the other post that state reasons I see it as reasons not to. Educate Me. I am teachable.

UNCLEBUCK · October 14, 2003, 07:17:55 PM

when i rebuilt my dads old circle mill the last thing i did was lay the new track down so i could align it exact before welding because the steel beams were 40+ feet long and from end to end it looked a bit crooked but very rigid, i didnt care it was close enough so then i just layed down the track material in relation to blade and made sure it was exactly square and parrallel then just tack welded each track every 2 feet . if i would have followed the big steel beams that i was welding it to i would have been off about a inch from end to end. the guide wheels on the carriage are on the sawblade side so i made track cleaners in front of each wheel on the side closest to the blade, its a old fahrquhar mill ! i also welded big screw jacks to this mill so i can fine tune it level.

mitch · October 15, 2003, 06:10:46 AM

LmbLady,
Thanks for generating a good discussion of rebuilding the track frame on older circular mills. I considered this a few years ago for my old Vance mill. It does not have "guide" wheels only single flange wheels on both sides like a railroad traveler. As Ron noted earlier most older mills have the double flange wheels on the saw side. These mills had lightweight, often wooden, carriages and having the guide wheels on the saw side improved the tracking since most of the log weight is on the saw side wheels. Example: 20" log on 30" tracks...over two thirds of the log weight is on the saw side wheels. However, with modern day all steel automatic carriages that weigh ten-twenty thousand lbs plus log weight distribution is probably not important.
For my old Vance mill I securely fastend a 4" by 24' C iron to the set works side of the carriage and it gently presses against an idler wheel on the track frame... no problems now with thick and thin lumber!

Finally, echoing Jeff's comments and Stanford Lunstrum (Circular Sawmills pg. 39) "Locating the V track away from the saw lessens the chance of sawdust and bark falling onto it causing derailment; also, the carriage is less apt to derail by action of the log turner."

Can you post some images of your finshed project? It would be nice to see a new old Corley.
Good Luck

woodhaven · October 15, 2003, 01:29:03 PM

Mitch.
You make a good point about the action of the log turner. My carriage has derailed 1 time in 15 years and I fixed that real fast.
I now have several 1/2x3" brackets mounted to the carriage and ridding along the main frame so in order for it to derail you would have to lift the complete mill about 6' in the air turn it upside down and shake the carriage lose. Also it prevents any tendence to tilt back if I roll a log on to fast.I think I need to take a picture of my guide rail so everyone can see what I mean. About the only way sawdust or bark can lay on my rail is if it were glued there. I know everyone uses that as a reason for not putting the rail next to the saw but with my rail I can't see it. My rail has no flat surface except for mounting and is rounded all the way to that point. At the flat section it then drops to the ground. If you could imagin pouring sawdust on a rolling ball you could get the idear.

UNCLEBUCK · October 15, 2003, 03:57:43 PM

hope pics make it ! :P

UNCLEBUCK · October 15, 2003, 04:10:37 PM

try again :P

Jeff · October 15, 2003, 04:59:57 PM

UncleBuck, you have to paste the code into the message box. THey dont appear without doing that.

UNCLEBUCK · October 15, 2003, 07:13:18 PM

thanks Jeff, i try again !

UNCLEBUCK · October 15, 2003, 07:21:33 PM

yippee !

UNCLEBUCK · October 15, 2003, 07:53:32 PM

so far so good ! :P

UNCLEBUCK · October 15, 2003, 08:03:44 PM

ok this is a old fahrquhar mill and it has 40 foot c channel steel that replaced old junky wood and you can see the slight variation in the c channel compared to the straightness of the tracks that i mentioned a few posts ago but the carriage wood still has a bit of life left in it, the tracks were just tack welded 1 inch every foot and alternating the weld so a 1 inch weld every 2 feet down each side of track meaning inside and outside, then screw jacks welded to the c channel so no cement footings and such ! well a picture is worth a thousand words so i think i have said my share for the year ! :D

Jeff · October 15, 2003, 08:11:56 PM

Buck, if you ever have to re-fabricate your cable pulley, Run it vertical instead of Horizontal. the cable never flips off then. The way yours is, a chunk of wood can ride the cable, enter the pulley and flip it off.

UNCLEBUCK · October 15, 2003, 11:23:53 PM

ok Jeff I will keep that in mind because I can only cut 16 foot logs but am thinking of a chainsaw mill contraption just for a few super long boards ! I really wish that my dad and I would have not stopped at 40 foot steel and instead added just a bit more length but its good enough for a lifetime of sawing now. I am just doing this for fun but it is slowly taking control of my life ! i hope lumberlady can see the track rails good enough, but i am getting better at pictures ! :P ;D

mitch · October 17, 2003, 05:28:32 AM

UncleBuck,
Apparently, using a round rod for the saw side wheels to track has been in practice for a long time. Notice the 5/8 inch rod fastened to the white oak "track" on this old water powered mill at milepost 176 on the Blue Ridge Parkway in Virginia (Mabry Mill).

The motive source of power for the mill.

UNCLEBUCK · October 17, 2003, 02:51:22 PM

unbelievable Mitch ! Now I bet that is quiet . Its amazing how modern man kept making changes and kept inventing but even when this water driven mill was built it was probably alot of patents and such . Sure would be a rush to watch it saw ! I am going to post one more pic of track just so others can see what and what not to do ! ;D