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Porch Rail

Started by thiggy, August 01, 2008, 12:19:02 PM

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thiggy

I am making replacements for the porch rail which run between the columns on my old pre Civil War farm house and am uncertain as what type of wood would be the best to use.  The rails will be painted, and I want something that will withstand the humid Mississippi weather for many years to come.  The original made by my Great Grandfather was old growth pine, which lasted for over 100 years.  I know that modern fast-grown pine is not the answer, and I do not want to use pressure treated, as it will not be uniform enough, nor will it hold paint over the long haul.  Can you suggest what might be good for this application?  (No exotics, please.)  Thanks, Thiggy
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Fla._Deadheader


Shouldn't be THAT hard to find an older Pine. As long as it has pitch, dry it and paint it. Might even look for a River Diver, and get a stick from them. They's nearly ALL Heart Pine.  ;D ;D
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Radar67

If your going to paint it, you could use poplar or cypress.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

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This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

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timberfaller390

quiet a few small mills make a specialty of cutting heart pine flooring from old timbers so a little leg work on this forum or the web and you should be able to come up with something. If it would be worth a trip to georgia I have a friend who should have plenty.
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Raider Bill

Ringold is not that far from where I'm building. Any idea what the price per board ft on poplar is there?
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timberfaller390

Ill find out I'm cutting red and white oak right now and dont have any poplar logs but I'm sure a couple of buddies would. I'm just guessing your building somewhere in Tellico?
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Raider Bill

Not far from Tellico, I'm not opposed to oak either, Need to do the top part of house, floors and trim
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

srt

I strongly  discourage you against using poplar.  I know, here have been planty of porch railing in the past made from poplar.  I've even seen them with my own eyes that were over 100 years old, two blocks from the atlantic Ocean.   We replaced tham because there was too much old paint on them to make them "pretty" for the homeowner.  The Architech said they needed to be made of the same species as the original.  So, we replaced them with poplar.  Three years later, we replaced them again with Alaskan Yellow Cedar. 

I've heard the story many times of old poplar holding up outside in the Mid Atlantic region.  However, no one that I know of has used poplar here successfully outside today.

Maybe it's a different poplar, I don't know.

If you can't get AYC, the old pine should be fine.  Just make sure it's pretty tight growth and seal all ends before putting it together.  Especially seal the underside of the spindles.  You'll never keep all the water out, but it helps.  My preference for sealing is West Systems epoxy thinned a little bit with lacquer thinner.  Oil based primer is decent also.

Radar67

srt, where is here?

There are many folks in MS who use poplar as an unsealed board and batten siding. I know of several houses that have been sided with it for over 30 or 40 years. I plan to side my cabin with it as well.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

srt

Radar,

Here is South Jersey.  No, Stop thinking New York!!!  South Jersey, complete with cows, fields and even a Saturday night Rodeo!

Maybe yours is a different type of poplar than we have.    Believe me, if I could use poplar successfully outside, I would.  I have plenty of them on our farm on Maryland's Eastern shore that are 100 feet tall and at least 36" DBH with a whole lot of good clear heart wood in them. 

Our poplar has white sap wood and mostly green heart wood.  However, sometimes the heart will have streaks of black or purple.   We use it almost exclusively inour cabinetshop as a secondary wood for interior stuff - drawer sides and the like.  Does your poplar look like ours?

Radar67

Yes, sounds like the same stuff. The leaves resemble a hand with four short, stubby fingers. With our heat and humidity down here, we build with drying in mind. The board and batten has an air gap behind it that allows the wood to dry out after a rain.

I've often thought the older houses last so long because they are not built as tight as the newer homes. This allows them to dry out if they get wet.

We may also use a little bit more of an overhang on our porches too; keeping our railings dryer and less UV abuse from the sun.

Oh, there are areas in New York that have forests and cows too.  ;D
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

srt

Yep, the leaves sound the same.

I couldn't agree more about letting stuff dry out.  Where there's water and wood and air all in one place, there will be rot.  Some woods faster, or slower than others. 

Yes also on New York.  I lived in Upstate NY for a while  - it was very, very nice in the Summer.  Way too cold for me in the Winter.

Most folks that I've met think of NJ as New York City.  Down our way, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Is most of the Poplar used in your area left unpainted? 

Radar67

No, most poplar is painted or stained and sealed. The only way I've seen it used and left raw is board and batten siding.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

rebocardo

> as it will not be uniform enough, nor will it hold paint over the long haul

I sure would not use Home Depot p.t. lumber, but, the trick to using p.t. lumber from a quality lumber yard, imho, is to dry it first before using it. Then plane it, then prime it, then install it.

I have found for p.t. and cedar the best thing is to stain them, not paint them.

If I was fixing to paint railings and did not have to deal with insects, I would go with white oak.



rebocardo

Quote from: rebocardo on August 03, 2008, 12:27:47 AM
> as it will not be uniform enough, nor will it hold paint over the long haul

I sure would not use Home Depot p.t. lumber, but, the trick to using p.t. lumber from a quality lumber yard, imho, is to dry it first before using it. Then plane it, then prime it, then install it.

I have found for p.t. and cedar the best thing is to stain them, not paint them.

If I was fixing to paint railings and did not have to deal with insects, I would go with white oak. Predrill the holes to prevent splits and use screws.




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