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so expensive??

Started by treefarmer87, November 11, 2010, 08:21:09 PM

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treefarmer87

why is the equipment so expensive on sites like forestryequipmentsales.com and machinery trader? the prices of wood have dropped so much that you probably wouldnt be able to make a payment on the new deere, barko, or prentice. especially after you pay the help, fuel, etc. how do they do it. on another note i found a perfect condition 210E prentice in LA joysticks,heat,AC, for $10,500 :o, and a 210 c mounted on a tandem mack in fair shape for $8,500
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

Bobus2003

Why is any Equipment expensive? Theirs guys out there taht have enough work, and allowed a high enough quota that they can make the payments.. Guy i know has a new Feller Buncher, He has to put up 20 loads a week to pay for fuel and payment, after that its Profit and he can cut 20 loads a day.. Problem arises when you have a 20or 30 load a week quota.. it hurts but guys are makin it work

Jeff

Some make it work. Many don't. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

treefarmer87

a man around where i used to live has been doing it for 40 years, sold out this past year. he had a brand new hydro ax 411 ex, a new barko 295, a new 430 timberjack, and a new 648 GIII JD skidder, and a bunch of road tractors and trailers. there is a company in cumberland, VA who gets 30 loads a week, now they have to strech 30 loads out for 1 month. i want to go to the bank and go get nice equip. like a nice buncher, loader, and skidder but i know what would happen :(
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

Randy88

Why is anything so expensive, say for example vehicles, because someone will pay the price to have one, plain and simple, if nobody would pay the price, then they'd never sell any and the price would be lowered until they did sell.   If people would pay 250,000 dollars for a pickup then thats what they'd cost but as of yet people won't pay that much for a vehicle and thats why they aren't that high priced yet, and I mean yet, give them time and they'll get there for a price, most alive today never thought a new pickup would ever cost close to or over 30k and today that doesn't buy a very big or loaded pickup either.   Houses are another thing as well, who alive today thought the average house would cost 200k plus, I remember when only doctors and lawyers or the extreme wealthy built houses and none cost 200k and now those a millions plus and the average house is over 200k.   Machinery is no different as long as someone out there is going to buy it they'll keep making it and charging more for it, also the larger someone makes it the more some else will have to have it, the need for bigger faster more productive is only limited by the ones making it not those that are buying it.   If you asked anyone who runs the stuff if someone made one larger and thus more productive and could increase his total output and margins he would say I need one if only someone would make it, thats what drives this whole senerio and it'll never stop unitl the last one is satisified for the need of bigger and better.   Thats whats happening in houses, machinery, vehicles, wages, you name, the skys the limit and nobody is going smaller or living without technology or anything else, remember, tomorrows a better day and I need to make more to buy bigger and better things.

treefarmer87

i want to get a cutter,skidder,loader, but i just want to make a living, not get a large company on my hands. it wouldnt work out well for me though, because i dont want to hire help. down here in SC its almost all tree length, i need a larger loader to handle those big pines and swamp timber. my 110 couldnt handle it. i dont like the fact im not working in the woods, i miss it bad :(. the price of timber down here is $17 a ton. if i worked by myself i couldnt make the payments i dont believe.
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

captain_crunch

Get this Bev and I payed 69,000 for the double wide we live in (yea I know trailer trash) but they want 56,000 for a Ford 4x4 PS diesel :) ;) ;) WHY HOW Or otherwise can a pick up cost over half what a place to live does >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

Coon

I hear ya captain.  I bought my house here just two years ago for less than a new plain 4x4 half ton.  That was two years ago though.... Property value here has climbed considerably.  It's now worth more than double what I paid....... a brand new 1 ton diesel truck is still worth more.  Go figure.  eh eh  ::)
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

JDeere

If you want to be making payments on a feller buncher, skidder and loader and work alone, you are not going to make it. The reality is you can only run one piece of equipment at a time and even if you work 90 hours a week, 2 pieces of your equipment will always be sitting idle. With more equipment comes more employees. My guys or competition will say why don't you buy this piece of equipment or that and I tell them that another piece of equipment is more overhead and if I don't hire another man to run it one of my other pieces will be idle while a existing employee runs the new one. Like almost everyone, I have some idle equipment, but it is paid for. Start out small and build your assets over time. A million dollars of new equipment is useless if you can't pay for it and it goes back to the bank.
2013 Western Star, 2012 Pelletier trailer, Serco 7500 crane, 2007 Volvo EC 140, 2009 John Deere 6115D, 2002 Cat 938G, 1997 John Deere 540G, 1996 Cat D-3C, 1995 Cat 416B, 2013 Cat 305.5E

Maine372

used equipment is so expensive because its usually traded or sold to pay for the downpayment on a new peice. gotta squeeze every penny out of it.

Randy88

Used equipment and vehicles may be expensive to buy but they are worthless on trade in, you basically give them the old one and pay retail for the new one, I attempted to trade in an old ford pickup with 100k on it and the going rate for a used one just like it was 6-7k and they would give me 500 bucks for mine on trade, gave it to my kids instead, there wasn't anything wrong with it but needed a bigger truck instead of a half ton.    Tried to trade some equipment off for newer stuff and the dealer told me he'd take it but wouldn't give me much on trade for it, it was a 30k dozer to trade in a 60k dozer and they wanted 55k to boot or giving me 5 grand for my old one and he'd turn around and sell it for 30 grand.   I'm not sure how these big guys do it if they trade every year or two for new but if it were me I think I'd keep it awhile and get some good out of it before giving it to them on trade to start over again.   My stuff is kept up, maintained, look nice, runs good and they still won't give anything for it on trade and its getting worse.   

Pickups are a major gripe of mine and the price of them is beyond rediculous, the life expectancy of one is around 100-150,000 miles or say less than 10 years, the upkeep is getting worse for repairs not better, reliabilty like they claim isn't there and in the end toss them into a junk pile nobody wants them or wants to trade them in and your just supposed to buy another new one outright for list price.   I don't plan on throwing my house away after 10 years and its usuually worth something after 10 years and the upkeep is way less on a house than a vehicle. I'm convinced my house doesn't have as many options on it than most vehicles do, power mirrors, heated seats, power everything, navigation systems, entertainment systems, computers, climate control systems, emergency reponse systems[onstar], leather seats, automaticaly adjustable seats and pedals.  I've said for years the only thing missing is an fridge and microwave and now they have options for both on some models, who needs a house, put in a shower and laundry and its all in the vehicle as an option, they used to be called rv's now the junk options are available on most vehicles.   I told the last dealer if a steering wheel was still standard and if it actually ran down the road or was that an added option as well for a new pickup, I'd take a base model with only a steering wheel and four new tires and a heater and doors with a box and a tailgate that worked, he could keep all the rest of the crap himself, I didn't want it, all it is is something more to fix later on,  I'd even like vinyl floors so I could wash it out once in a while, that opion wasn't available anymore, go figure.

Bobus2003

Quote from: Randy88 on November 14, 2010, 07:39:41 AM
Used equipment and vehicles may be expensive to buy but they are worthless on trade in, you basically give them the old one and pay retail for the new one, I attempted to trade in an old ford pickup with 100k on it and the going rate for a used one just like it was 6-7k and they would give me 500 bucks for mine on trade, gave it to my kids instead, there wasn't anything wrong with it but needed a bigger truck instead of a half ton.    Tried to trade some equipment off for newer stuff and the dealer told me he'd take it but wouldn't give me much on trade for it, it was a 30k dozer to trade in a 60k dozer and they wanted 55k to boot or giving me 5 grand for my old one and he'd turn around and sell it for 30 grand.   I'm not sure how these big guys do it if they trade every year or two for new but if it were me I think I'd keep it awhile and get some good out of it before giving it to them on trade to start over again.   My stuff is kept up, maintained, look nice, runs good and they still won't give anything for it on trade and its getting worse.   

Pickups are a major gripe of mine and the price of them is beyond rediculous, the life expectancy of one is around 100-150,000 miles or say less than 10 years, the upkeep is getting worse for repairs not better, reliabilty like they claim isn't there and in the end toss them into a junk pile nobody wants them or wants to trade them in and your just supposed to buy another new one outright for list price.   I don't plan on throwing my house away after 10 years and its usuually worth something after 10 years and the upkeep is way less on a house than a vehicle. I'm convinced my house doesn't have as many options on it than most vehicles do, power mirrors, heated seats, power everything, navigation systems, entertainment systems, computers, climate control systems, emergency reponse systems[onstar], leather seats, automaticaly adjustable seats and pedals.  I've said for years the only thing missing is an fridge and microwave and now they have options for both on some models, who needs a house, put in a shower and laundry and its all in the vehicle as an option, they used to be called rv's now the junk options are available on most vehicles.   I told the last dealer if a steering wheel was still standard and if it actually ran down the road or was that an added option as well for a new pickup, I'd take a base model with only a steering wheel and four new tires and a heater and doors with a box and a tailgate that worked, he could keep all the rest of the crap himself, I didn't want it, all it is is something more to fix later on,  I'd even like vinyl floors so I could wash it out once in a while, that opion wasn't available anymore, go figure.

I bought my F350 XL 4x4 PSD 6spd new in '06, I had to Hunt dealers too find the base model.. And it was stll a $43000 truck. Rediculous..

Skiddah

I bought my 2008, F250 XL 5.4L 4x4 in late 2008.  The truck was retailing for $27,900.  Base model XL, I think the only options listed were cab clearance lights.  The salesman called me up, all apologetic, saying it was a 6sp manual and not an automatic.  He hoped that wasn't a deal breaker.  My response, "Even better!"  He threw $9500 worth of rebates at me and I picked it up for $18,400.  I think I did well.  A man I work with just picked up a fully loaded 6.7L PS F350.  Great looking, riding, etc. truck.  It had better be for $55k.  Ridiculous prices on pickups.

madmari

At the risk of sounding stupid, I just traded my '68 skidder (cable-grunt!) for a '73 model in better condition. Breakdowns were killing my working time, but I owed nothing to anyone.
  These rediculous payments for cutting cheap wood makes my brain ache. Life isn't fun anymore worrying about quotas and payments. I can cut two loads a week, plus pulp with one partner. Are we making a killing? Nope. But until things improve from $500 oak, it's gonna have to be enough. A new saw costs $850, fuel is $3.25 and an oil change for the skidder is about $80. It's nuts!
  If we collectively set the supply instead of flooding the market with cheap wood, things may change.

  I paid less for my truck than two month payments on a new 1 ton. That was a year ago. I keep tools with me and take care of it and it gets me to work. My little girls love the thing and that is what makes me happy. Wife has extra grocery money and that makes her happy. Win-win-win. Ford, GM, Chrysler and Toyota hate people like me, and I'm ok with that.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Peter Drouin

And if the feds keep printing money trucks will be 100,000,000 each!!!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Rocky_Ranger

It's way out of hand, Mama got her a new F-250 4x4 B-20 diesel and it listed for 58k and some change.. >:(
RETIRED!

Bobus2003

Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on November 14, 2010, 09:09:16 PM
It's way out of hand, Mama got her a new F-250 4x4 B-20 diesel and it listed for 58k and some change.. >:(

My brother picked up his new F250 CC XLT 4x4 6.7l today..at a cool $54,795

BCtimber

Ya its crazy.  I bought a new chev4x4 crewcab 2006 four years ago on a lease and I still have two years of payments left.  Lesson learned.  Let someone else buy the new ones.  I may buy again in a couple years but it will be a 2 or 3 year old lease return this time.

nas

Just bought a truck for the wife, a '98 expedition with 74000 miles on it  $3800.  It is in great condition for 1/10th of the new price.  If you have time to look, the deals are out there.




Nick
Better to sit in silence and have everyone think me a fool, than to open my mouth and remove all doubt - Napoleon.

Indecision is the key to flexibility.
2002 WM LT40HDG25
stihl 066
Husky 365
1 wife
6 Kids

jeffreythree

New truck prices are rediculous, but that is what you get when everyone wants a big ole work truck that drives like a car and has a really nice interior.  The manufacturers have learned their lesson about to much inventory.  They want to make just enough now for demand to hold those prices up there.  It took me a while to find a decent work truck on my budget, but found a good ole Ford F250 with the old 7.3 IDI engine.  New stuff is just too expensive to work on, if you even know how to work with computers modules.  If it is broke on this thing, I can see it  :D .  Equipment seems to be the same way.  Dealer will not give anything on trade, new stuff is getting more gizmos, and everyone wants a lot for the used even when it is not selling.  I have been shopping for a few pieces of equipment, and some people think their's must be made of gold while the next guy just needs it sold to pay bills.
Trying to get out of DFW, the land of the $30,000 millionaires.  Look it up.

PAFaller

Expense is all relative, and while its easy to pick apart the prices and complain there are plenty of reasons why paying more is actually less expensive in the long run. For instance, friends of mine that run a large crew by PA standards upgraded to a newer and bigger grapple skidder. While the sticker price, insurance for it, and fuel bill are much higher than the old skidder, its productivity more than makes up for it.  Cost per ton of wood produced is actually less than with the old skidder. On top of that this one is new enough to still have some warranty on major components, came with good rubber etc. Break downs cost 3 times...but most guys forget to look at it that way. If you were an employee in a normal job you would be paid by the hour for what you do, so if as a logger you pay yourself to tear down the machine and find the broken parts, then you buy new parts, and on top of that you weren't producing anything worthwhile in that time frame. Adds up to a lot of lost money at the end of the year. Same holds true for vehicles, I hate buying them because they depreciate super fast and dont make me any money, but then again I can't get to work without one that isnt reliable day in and day out.
 
It ain't easy...

treefarmer87

nas is right, there are deals,(good deal by the way :)) i found a 410 prentice, with a detriot and saw package for $6000
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

BrothersMule

I would have to agree with everyone on this. I am in sales and i would still agree that prices are rediculous for everything; Equipment, Trucks, food, everything. And the goverment is not helping. As long as they keep printing money its only going to get worse and Inflation is going to be out of control the next few years.

I would like to say i do like seeing all these FORD people here. Hope i dont start any fights but i just cant buy a GM product that i have already paid for once ;)

Skiddah

BrothersMule,

I got a chuckle from your post.  I'll always be a Ford man.  I have nothing against the other brands, but I often feel like I should just walk into a GM dealership, hop in a new 3/4 ton, and when the dealer says, "How would you like to finance that?" I would reply, "No finance necessary, my taxes have taken care of it."

treefarmer87

if it is lifted i dont care what it is. :)
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

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