Small skidder vs. tractor with farmi winch?

[gman98]

Hello guys.  I'm looking to get a start in logging while I'm still in college, and I need a machine to yard wood with.  I'm looking at starting working on small woodlots, cutting freebie length firewood and some pulp and popple for the OSB plant.  What would you guys reccomend for a machine between a small cable skidder and a tractor with a farmi winch?

Thanks

[DDW_OR]

what do you have to move the equipment from one yard to the next?

a 50+ hp 4x4 tractor can do more things than a skidder. but a skidder has a protected belly.

[Maine logger88]

If you have other things to do with the tractor then it might be worth it but if you are going to just pull wood with it a skidder is way better. You can probably find a decent cable skidder for alot less than what it would cost to buy a tractor and winch too. Plus a skidder is way safer I did the tractor farmi winch thing for a year or so when I first started it got the job done but I would be hard pressed to go back.

[John Mc]

If you do end up going with a tractor and winch, remember to leave room in your budget for some "armor": belly pan, FOPS, limb-risers, engine and grill protection.

As others have noted, the tractor is more versatile, but there is a very good reason a skidder was designed in the first place - it's made for the kind of work you are talking about.

[mf40diesel]

I logged with my tractor for a couple years, exactly like you said,  55 hp John Deere and a farmi winch.  As far as pulling power, just fine, and with the bigger tires, and 4wd did pretty good as far as getting stuck.  With that said, I broke the front drive shaft guard, ripped part of the wiring harness off, bashed in the hydraulic oil filter (luckily it didn't punch through).  I ended up buying an old skidder myself.

I will say though, clearly the tractor is much more versatile.   For me it was also that I always wanted to own a skidder, just needed a reason. 

[danbuendgen]

First off, your not going to make much of anything cutting firewood and pulp with a chain saw and skidder part time or full time.... Have you looked at the pulp markets recently?? How many cords can you cut and skid in a day? Where will you sell that firewood/pulp?

Not to be rude, but have you ever logged before?! If not, your gonna be in for a wicked learning curve. Honestly, your collage education wont help much in the woods working as a logger. Somethings will come in handy for sure, but there is A TON collage wont teach you. I have worked with kids out of forestry collage that thought they were going to be big time loggers because they went to forestry collage, and they knew nothing, needed baby sitting, and got nothing done. I'm a high school drop out been working in the woods since it was 18 and I can and cut and skid circles around them.... It's amazing how little these collage kids know about the industry.....

But to answer your question, in my experience farm tractors are meant to be farm tractors in flat fields and no good in the woods. Your going to struggle a lot to pull even a small hitch. Tractor tires are not meant to be in the woods, tractors have no belly pans, and no brush guards and no ROPS. You will more then likely roll it over. Or just break it. 50 HP is nothing in the woods. Most small skidders around around the 100 HP range. Skidder is the only way to go in the woods hands down. I like the TJ 240 for a cable machine. Something in this size range or larger. Don't get a tiny skidder. And don't buy the cheapest machine of craigslist and expect it be reliable. Spend 20-30k for a decent machine if you plan to make a living with it.

But before you start blowing a ton of money, get some experience and learn the ins and outs of the industry. Logging equipment is jaw dropping expensive, and keeping a old skidder together is not a walk in the park. A tire can cost $2k+. A winch rebuild $5k+. A engine rebuild $6-10k. Your going to needs tools, and mechanical skills, ect. Your going to need work lined up. A lot of it. And need a ton of money in the bank to buy jobs and cover costs. Do you know any foresters or landowners who can help you find work? Where will you market your products? Who will truck your wood? How will you survive if the market slows? What about mud season? Do you know your daily operating cost/production out put for bidding jobs, budgeting cash flow, and paying stumpage? Who will build landings and roads for truck access and do you know how to price this out? What if you have a major break down on your skidder? Can you fix it, if not, who will, and can you afford it? Will you have the savings to last you through tough times? Can you get a loan for a skidder? Or do you happen to have 20k+ sitting around? Just a few things to think about.

I don't mean to discourage you, but I think you should get a job working in the woods first before you go on your own ever part time on weekends. Logging is a easy way to get killed or hurt, so better learn the ropes with skilled people nearby to teach you how to log with out getting killed.

Good Luck.

[thecfarm]

You said freebie wood,where others have cut? How long will the freebie stuff last. I use to cut on my own land with a tractor. I got all the money,so I could take more time with the brush,stumps,and my trails. I could cut a load of logs quick,but then go back in and clean up the small stuff is what took time. Than once I almost got stuck with a load of plup because it had started to turn gray. We was cutting big pine and not getting much small wood at that time.
I know there are at least 2-3 in the woods with a tractor,on the forum,but they are not cutting small stuff all the time.

[bill m]

Don't believe ANYONE who says you cannot earn a good living logging with a tractor. I am doing it and have been for many years. Don't get me wrong, it's not for everyone. You need to have respect for your equipment and the people and land you are working on. You have to do things different with a tractor like cutting that 3 inch sapling instead of just running it over with a skidder BUT the forester you work through and the land owner will appreciate it. Your operating costs are far lower with a tractor then with a skidder. These are a few pictures of some of the jobs I have worked.

  

  

  

 

[John Mc]

gman98 - I think a lot of this depends on what your goals are. There is quite a difference between running a small, part-time operation to get yourself some experience and make a little money on the side, and trying to make a living and support a family solely on logging.

Since you are currently a student, I'm guessing you are in the "small, part-time" camp, at least for now. As has already been noted, a big factor in your decision will be how you will be using the equipment. If you have other things you need to get done, a tractor will probably have the edge due to its versatility: there is a lot you can do with the right attachments on a tractor (other work around the home/farm, loading trucks/trailers, brush hogging, landscaping/grading, etc)  If you sole need is dragging logs, it's going to be hard to beat a skidder.

Lastly, what is your time/skills/inclination to work on equipment? I have a bit of mechanical aptitude, but am far from being a diesel mechanic. In my situation, I'd rather have a reliable piece of equipment that maybe I have to find work-arounds to accomplish some tasks because it isn't designed to do everything I want, than own something that does all I need, but needs constant repairs.

I own a 33 HP tractor with a logging winch a grapple on the front, and a few modifications for work in the woods. I often comment that it's a good thing I'm not trying to make a living at firewood, because it's SLOW work. In almost 15 years of using it in the woods, the only damage I've done is a flat tire and a busted off hydraulic filter (that last one didn't happen in the woods, but it is what finally convinced me to get the belly pan installed). I have to be a lot more careful with my equipment than with something made for work in the forest, but given my other needs, it fits me well. For someone serious about working in the the woods professionally, I would never go as small as what I have, unless you are serving some specialty market.

[DeerMeadowFarm]

I think anyone in this day and age who is willing to work hard to make some cash while in school is a good egg in my book. You aren't going to get rich. You may be lucky to break even at times, but you'll get a better education of the real world than going to college alone, or working in a pizza joint while in school ever will. Maybe a compromise of landing some part time work with an established logger would be a better start and safer all around? Good luck!

[BurkettvilleBob]

No shortage of opinions here are there! I say find the best little skidder you can afford, grease the hell out of it and go have fun. You're young, it doesn't matter if you go belly up, then you'll know maybe it wasn't the thing to do. Before you know it you'll have kids and a house payment and you won't be able to jeopardize your finances on a gamble. If you don't try it now, you'll kick yourself in the ass later, always wishing you tried logging when you were 18. Finish school, cut wood when you can, don't drop anything on your head and have fun!

[Stephen Alford]

   Just a couple pics of belly armor ..

 


 

[luvmexfood]

No shortage of opinions here are there! I say find the best little skidder you can afford, grease the hell out of it and go have fun. You're young, it doesn't matter if you go belly up, then you'll know maybe it wasn't the thing to do. Before you know it you'll have kids and a house payment and you won't be able to jeopardize your finances on a gamble. If you don't try it now, you'll kick yourself in the ass later, always wishing you tried logging when you were 18. Finish school, cut wood when you can, don't drop anything on your head and have fun!

x2 Finish your education. Don't matter what you can do in life or what experience you have or even specialized training if you don't have that diploma then it don't matter. Log a little on the side. If things work out then you are good to go. Otherwise, if you don't like it then fall back on your education.

[Stephen Alford]

  I have had requests from the landowners for the next couple of jobs  (a couple years work for me) that they be farm tractor only jobs.  For ground clearance power and productivity I would prefer a skidder but not all the choices are mine to make. Just wondering if anyone else is coming across this preference ?
Most of you folks are probably  familiar with these units . Thought they had some interesting features.   
  https://youtu.be/1RuaLs4H3zE

[John Mc]

Interesting. What advantage do they think they are getting by requesting a farm tractor?

[Stephen Alford]

 Hey John , as I am sure you are aware there is quite  a cross section of landowners out there. Some how the perception is the bigger the gear the more the damage. Simply not the case.  The conversation starts out.. Are you the guy that logs with the farm tractor? .  If that is what it takes to get the work so be it but having options makes for better results.  Match the tool to the task. The currency most landowners want to pay you with is wood. Right now it does not seem to be worth a lot .   I believe that we have to do a better job of educating  folks.  Most of us are just to busy trying to make a living to get involved. It is only through sites like Jeff's  "forestry Forum" a voice can be heard . How we present ourselves on here will go a long way to help. Just look at the number of  "guests" versus  "members"  .   When I see young lads like gman98 come on here  and want to learn then there is  ..hope..  my friend.   

[John Mc]

The reason I was asking is that I grew up on a farm in NW Ohio. To me, a "real" farm tractor is big, and not as maneuverable as many skidders I have seen (though I've never operated one). A big farm tractor would not be something I would picture as minimizing damage in the woods.

[Stephen Alford]

   Most farms here had two categories of tractors .  "Real tractors" as you describe for working the land and one the size of mine ie 65 hp for yard work. The 4x4 and cab have been huge.  As the family farms started to decline for all sorts of reasons folks started looking to their woodlots for extra income.  The 65hp ford has always been well received by landowners. It has run my sawmill, log loader, wood grapple, grader blade and winch.  It has really shined when it comes to cash flow. But the skidder  was the girl to put wood on the landing. 
   One day I arrived at a farm and there was an ol belarus 825 4x4 and this big beautiful John Deere.  I asked the farmer what he used to blow snow  ?   He responded the belarus do not want to get salt on the deere.   What do you use to move the manure ?  The belarus cause the manure would make the cab smell on the deere.  What do use to get your firewood ?  Oh the ol belarus  the branches would scratch the cab of the deere.  Then he said we use the belarus for most of the farm work cause its already runnin.  :D

[DeerMeadowFarm]

   Just a couple pics of belly armor ..

 


 

Any other details/pics of your modifications on this beauty Stephan?

[Lazy logger]

Lots of good advice so far, and a lot to think about. I have done it both ways, and still do. I have a 30 hp Kubota with a winch and a TJ230 cable skidder. I am not a full time logger by any stretch of the imagination and after learning what it would take I'm not sure I could or want to try. If your just "playing around" part time stick with a tractor and winch. You would be surprised at what you can do with this little tractor. You just need to use your head and be safe. I have found that the tractor has a lot more uses and will make life easier in more ways than logging. Make sure you get one with quick attach loader so you can get forks,bucket, brush grapple, etc. there's a lot more you can do in the woods than logging to make extra money. Making trails, roads, food plots etc. If all you want to do is pull logs a skidder is definitely the way to go but that's all you will do with it. The other thing you should think about is being able to move it. I can easily move my tractor around with my truck, my skidder is expensive to move. Good luck, and be safe.

[Stephen Alford]

 Oh me pics... thought you would never ask   :D

Got to agree with Dan gearing up a tractor is not easy but as Bill M says it can be done.  I found for a one man show like mine the skidder/tractor was a great combination.


 

  These are forestry special (skidder tires) on the tractor. Pipe covers over the stems , rebar around the rims and globe mirrors, and a good non slip step.

  

  

 

  Made a 3pt wood grab for the rear.

  

 

  A snow push blade on the front made out out a truck bumper Has a couple digger teeth for extra brakes.  Its 5 pieces comes off easily.  Not on much in the woods but is at the landing if I need it.


  

 

  Log trailer made from a scraped truck.


 

Added a 3pth winch with fairlead, really pleased with the way it spools.


  

 

  This is the tool crib   

 

 

[gman98]

Thanks for all the great replies guys.  I've been busy with classes lately so I haven't had much time to get one.  To starts with, I made an error in my original post.  I typed "freebie" wood, but meant to say tree length.  I have already gotten a job working with a handcrew for a month starting in mid December.  I'll be bucking pine sawlogs at the landing and will get an opportunity to do some felling and working with some skidders.  And finally, I know this will not be a final career path for me most likely.  Right now I'm looking for a way to have a lot of fun and make a little money on the side.

[BargeMonkey]

@ Stephen,  that's probably one of the nicest woods tractors I've seen, pictures look good.

[47sawdust]

Stephen,
Does that tractor have a microwave and a cup holder as well? Certainly is one tricked out tractor...you work is impressive.

[thecfarm]

Good idea on the 3pt wood grab.

[JBlain]

If you are going for small wood lots and niche markets, I would recommend trying a tractor with winch to start. You can haul it with a good truck and trailer without a CDL.

I use my ford 1920 for all kinds of things, subframe backhoe, grader box for roads and trails, bucket, etc.... I just made mine more stable on the hills with filled tires and wider rear stance.  I didn't add belly protection because I have clean trails and pull winch cable and use snatch blocks when it is looking messy.

The other factor on older skidder is wrenching.  My last piece of old steel was a crawler loader.  The best days where when I bought it and then sold it...when something breaks, it always happened in the woods....  When I need crawler work done now, I just hire a pro and it is much quicker and cost effective.

I have put 1,000+ hours on my tractor and only routine service was needed.  My dad has one that is pushing 8,000 hours with minimal issues.

Good luck. 

[John Mc]

Very nice set-up, Stephen.

Are those teeth on your snow pusher some old ripper shanks from a box blade?

[thecfarm]

There are some people that think a tractor will do less damage to the woods.
I had a skidder guy try to convice me that horse logging makes more of a mess because they can't run over the brush and break it down.  : I was working my tractor,on my land,in the woods and tried to get him to my woods to see my "mess". I am very fussy with what I do. BUT it's my land,so I can spend the time to do it. I get all the money and can spend the time making it look nice. Almost like I was not even there. There is no way I could do that logging on someone elses land. So saying one makes more of a mess than other is not really true. I have seen nice neat jobs with a skidder and then some jobs I wonder when the bomb went off. Depends on the chainsaw guy and how they bring the wood out.

[John Mc]

I'd rather have a great operator with equipment that might not be the best thing suited to my property than a lousy operator with fantastic equipment.

Anyone can damage the residual stand or leave your access roads torn up and prone to erosion, regardless of what they are using to get the work done.

[Puffergas]

Used a tractor in the woods for years. No more, TJ225 does that now. Use a skid steer for the fine details. To move the 225, skid steer and logs I picked up a trailer and a Steiger (farm tractor). Only need to truck for short distances.

[Stephen Alford]

  Thanks Barge after, seeing that hole you lads are digging , I can't understand why you haven't been to Oak Island. :D

  47sawdust I do have a kettle.  A cup of tea and a listen to the news is a highlight of the day.

 

  Cfarm the grab  works well. but I know what your thinking... "NO BOULDERS".   :D  Added a dangle chain for wabbit wood.

 

  John Mc you are correct. They can be pointed ahead or back , but once full down in the root mat the tractor stays. Have not tested them with the new winch yet , will get a pic when that happens, Go easy.

[DeerMeadowFarm]

How thick are the belly pans on your tractor Stephen?

[bill m]

This is the belly pan on my tractor. It is 1/8 inch.

 

[Stephen Alford]

  DMF, I believe it was 1/8 th as well.  Put it on 26 years ago but i will check.  Did it to lower the center of gravity plus provide protection.  Lost a couple inches of clearance with the ribbing. It is actually 4 pieces. Wanted to be able to get at filters etc.  Should mention I have found the acquisition of a clearing saw to be huge for trail cutting. It has the long shank and keeps stubs square  not to  mention  that my back and saw are ready to go when I get where i want to be.   
  Got a chance to try the dangle chain and seems to work well and conformed to the grab. May have to mess with the length but because of the two shackles  holding it in place , taking it off to move brush and slash will be easy.



  

 

[DeerMeadowFarm]

Stephen - I bought a clearing saw last year and it has been very helpful in trail maintenance! Thanks for the info on your tractor.

[Stephen Alford]

  You are most welcome. In turn, thanks to you Jeff , your family and the admins for puttin up with us all and tearin around your home.       tip o the hat ta yee !! 

https://youtu.be/OzbaEKCsyzs

[Stephen Alford]

   In the past there have been some " skidder verses tractor" discussion.   Personally I do not think it is a case of one  or  the other. They are just different tools.  Parts especially tires and now at least here ,  some landowner attitude issues have surfaced.  Been using the tractor for mainly tree harvests on one acre building lots.  Had the winch mounted on the  front and the grapple on the rear.  This worked well on these small lots.  Recently downsized to just the tractor and sold the skidder.  Mounted the winch on the rear now and have some what of a blade on the front hoping to make it more efficient in a woods situation.  Found this configuration on utube , found it interesting.  Any thoughts ?

https://youtu.be/U2oFnxuRcS8

[Ed_K]

 My setup isn't quite the same, but it works for me. I use the Tajfun winch to pull trees to the skid road and out to the landing. The grapple on the front bucket works in the woods to align trees, pull down hang ups,and move brush off skid roads or pile brush. At the landing I use the grapple to hold trees off the ground to buck into logs, and then stack on the sort piles. The clip didn't show the tractor being used much,but I wouldn't want to use the grapple to drag to trees very far, it'd be one sore neck by days end  :( .


 


 

[g_man]

That's an interesting set up Ed. Do you have to remove the grapple when you do bucket work or does it swing out of the way.

gg

[thecfarm]

Stephen,I kinda liked your winch on the front idea. Winch them to the main skid road,drop them and have a grapple on the back.
I only have a 40hp tractor,so I think I can skid more than I can pick up and carry.

[Stephen Alford]

   Man Ed that is a nice setup. Do you use skidder and tractor on the same site ?  Also wonder how much of a security concern do you have at the landing for your gear.  There have been issues here. Now with just the tractor I will be able to leave it in someones yard. This has worked well because I have been able to plug it in. The wind chills here are a problem. Generally you have to cross 60/100 acres of open farmland to get to the woodlot. Fortunately the full tractor cab makes it bearable.  Does not seem far but in an open skidder  with temps below -20 it can be a pain.

   Hey Cfarm, one parameter for the tractor has been over all length,as it is not articulate like a skidder.  The winch, grapple and scraper blade will all be implements on the back . With the front blade removed most of the time.  I guess in all honesty things do not look good in the forest sector right now . By removing the winch and making it into an implement it would be sold separate from the tractor. Had I left it on the tractor I would not get anything for it when mounted on the front. Plus I was nervous about braking the front end. The tractor was designed to have the load on the rear. Should things improve then a quick attach system will be geared up. 

   It occured to me today that maybe  the problem I mentioned about landowners and skidders  was directed at my old skidder and not skidders in general.  Poor ol Doll... was no looker...  but she could haul wood.   :-\

[Ed_K]

 g_man, one 3/4" plow bolt and 2 quick disconnects for hydraulic hoses and the grapple is setting on the ground.
Stephen, I have both pieces on the lot. Most times its easier to use the tractor to bunch the trees along side the skid road then get the skidder and move the bunches to the landing. With the tractor I can set the bunches so its easy to put the chokers around the trees,also easier to lift them out of the snow too. I've been lucky, no ones has messed with the equipment on my jobs so far  .

[47sawdust]

Ed K,
That grapple has me curious.Can you post a picture of it?

[Ed_K]

 I hope to get to the job tomorrow depending on the weather. I have to be careful, with this cancer I have to be carful not to get wet or cold,and get sick. Will try to get some picts.

[47sawdust]

Ed,
Please don't put yourself out on my part.My curiosity can wait.
What is the brand on that tractor and model?
Thanks,Mick

[Ed_K]

 Landini 5860 60 hp 58 at the pto. I bought it in 04 and the only work its done is in the woods.

[petefrom bearswamp]

2007 8540 Kubota, 1994 Farmi winch, pallet forks, 7' bucket here.
Great around the mill altho the forks are hard to see, works good in the woods too.

[Stephen Alford]

    Thanks Ed, great to hear your  your out and about. Do go easy     .  There was a time when we locked nothing. Really annoys me the time wasted on security. Frozen locks , lost keys, fuel and tools even had a bag of peppermints from under the seat .   

[DDW_OR]

2007 8540 Kubota, 1994 Farmi winch, pallet forks, 7' bucket here.
Great around the mill altho the forks are hard to see, works good in the woods too.

Here is my Mahindra 5520. i added two additional forks to make a tractor pitchfork  8)


  

 

[Ed_K]

 I got some pictures of the grapple that I built back in 1999. It was first mounted on the Massy model 30 till I bought the landini in 04.
The 2 pictures are the hook up for the hydraulic hoses.


 


 

I had my machinist build a swivel pin so the grapple can swing around to different angles so the log or tree can line up with the pile or swing around trees in the woods.


 

The next 2 are how I hooked the grapple to the loader.


 


 

This is 1 of the grapple holding a tree ready to be bucked to length.


 

There's pictures of the tires and a tray I added to the tractor in my gallery to look at, I took up to much space here to add them.

[dwchaisson]

 

  

  

  

  here is the winch I built this fall for my new purchase a JD5065M, its hydraulic. top block is made out of 4 by 4 truck wheel bearing and a V pulley, another product of my welding class. just thought id'd share

[John Mc]

here is the winch I built this fall for my new purchase a JD5065M, its hydraulic. top block is made out of 4 by 4 truck wheel bearing and a V pulley, another product of my welding class. just thought id'd share

Did yo mean to include a picture?

[dwchaisson]

 ya I messed up! I've since "edited"



 

[thecfarm]

I myself would rather see a piece of flat metal for a blade instead of 2 legs. But if it works well,so be it.

[dwchaisson]

I myself would rather see a piece of flat metal for a blade instead of 2 legs. But if it works well,so be it.

Actually I took the feet off and It works fine without anything

[47sawdust]

Ed K,
Thanks for posting the pictures of the grapple.That is a very clever arrangement.

[thecfarm]

Removing the feet works too.  ;)  I just feel the more on the ground the better when it comes to a 3 pt winch.

[mjeselskis]

Nice work on the winch. How do you like the 5065M? That was one of the models I was considering before I went with the older 5300.

[dwchaisson]

Nice work on the winch. How do you like the 5065M? That was one of the models I was considering before I went with the older 5300.

I really like it! A little under powered for the size but its manageable, if I did it again I would go 5075, I like everything else about it

[DeerMeadowFarm]

Nice job on the winch!

[mjeselskis]

Nice work on the winch. How do you like the 5065M? That was one of the models I was considering before I went with the older 5300.

I really like it! A little under powered for the size but its manageable, if I did it again I would go 5075, I like everything else about it

Thanks, I'm liking the 5300 but with 56hp and about the same size as the 5065M, it's a little underpowered too. I pulled out about two cords of firewood this morning and it did great in 2ft of snow but didn't have the power to pull a heavy hitch in the higher gears. The good thing is that is has the same drivetrain as the higher HP tractors so it should last.

[milkie62]

Oh me pics... thought you would never ask   :D

Got to agree with Dan gearing up a tractor is not easy but as Bill M says it can be done.  I found for a one man show like mine the skidder/tractor was a great combination.


 

  These are forestry special (skidder tires) on the tractor. Pipe covers over the stems , rebar around the rims and globe mirrors, and a good non slip step.

  

  

 

  Made a 3pt wood grab for the rear.

  

 

  A snow push blade on the front made out out a truck bumper Has a couple digger teeth for extra brakes.  Its 5 pieces comes off easily.  Not on much in the woods but is at the landing if I need it.


  

 

  Log trailer made from a scraped truck.


 

Added a 3pth winch with fairlead, really pleased with the way it spools.


  

 

  This is the tool crib   

 

Great mods on that Ford tractor.

[gman98]

Thanks for all the replies guys.  I've got my heart set on a Deere 440b but I doubt I'll ever find one in my price range.  I'm looking at a franklin 135b right now with the 353 Detroit in it.  Are they any good or junk?

Thanks

[BurkettvilleBob]

It looks like a decent rig and the price just dropped didn't it? Could probably get it for a little less than what he's asking. The ad says center bushings are good, but the pins need to replaced. Wouldn't the bushings also be worn if the pins were bad?

[gman98]

It looks like a decent rig and the price just dropped didn't it? Could probably get it for a little less than what he's asking. The ad says center bushings are good, but the pins need to replaced. Wouldn't the bushings also be worn if the pins were bad?

I wondered about the same thing.  I'm worried about getting myself into a money pit with a machine like that.  I'd like to have the price for that international s8 on this machine!

Thanks

[BurkettvilleBob]

There must have been some gremlins hiding in that S8, it was way to cheap to not have something wrong with. Have you looked into those timberjacks in Houlton?

[gman98]

There must have been some gremlins hiding in that S8, it was way to cheap to not have something wrong with. Have you looked into those timberjacks in Houlton?

Both a friend and I tried contacting the guy, and he got a sketchy answer and I haven't heard anything from him.

[milkie62]

Wish I had a big enough woodlot to justify a nice old JD 440. But will have to settle on a Farmi 501 or Wallenstein. After looking at local pricing and the included trailer hitch,I think the Wallenstein is going to win over the Farmi.