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proper way to use 28" bar to cut 48" tree?

Started by rebocardo, July 24, 2004, 04:07:58 PM

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rebocardo

I want to use my current set up to take down a 48 inch white oak, which is a 28 inch bar on a Husky 365. I will be buying another saw, most likely a 372 or 365. I looked at the 395 and 3120 and they are way too heavy for the work I do, especially with a big bar.

The largest tree I have taken down is a 36 inch oak and except for these two trees I usually only do 30 inches and under where the bar can do the whole tree in one cut.

Is this the proper way:

Do the notch from both sides and then the back cut gradually from both sides and wedge it once I have enough room? Naturally, I walk around the back of the tree when going side to side ;-)

My question is saw position. On the back cut, I turn my saw upside down to where it usually would be on the back cut, with the left hand behind the chain brake and the right hand on the handle and match up with the previous cut. I stop before I bury the nose of the bar and start from the other side again. Is this the safest way or should I use a plunge cut closer to the hinge and work back?

My main thing is trying to keep my legs out of the way of any kickback. I usually use an open notch since I think this keeps the tree on the stump a bit longer then a humbolt type notch and I start my back cut even with the V of the open notch. Though with how difficult this will be I have been thinking about skipping it. I know the Humbolt is probably better for a tree you want cut close to the ground because it saves wood. My concern is just getting the tree down safely. Any suggestions?




David_c

open face is good. i think it also leaves more wood. i dont know were people come up with the humbolt does, becuase you cant get as close to the ground. i also like to use the plunge cut then you can leave a strap to make sure everything is the way you want cut and go, no racing the tree down. 28" bar should be fine cutting from both sides just remember to finish from good side of tree. also instead of spending money on new saw maybe you might want to just buy smaller/bigger bars.

SasquatchMan

As a carpenter, I feel completely qualified to answer this post... ;)

My understanding is that an open face notch and a front plunge, leaving a sort of horseshoe shaped area of uncut wood behind the notch, followed by two seperate felling cuts, leaving the a strap at the back of the tree until last.  This is nicely outlined in the Stihl saw manuals.
Senior Member?  That's funny.

rebocardo

re: new chainsaw

I need a backup saw, so I decided to go to another Husky so the bars and chains would interchange. I had thought about a bigger bar, but, the 365 is straining on the 28 inch bar when going through oak with a new chain. Might be because I use 72v safety chain?



Rocky_J

Your statement that you are concerned about keeping your legs out of the way of kickback leads me to believe that you are making the felling cut at ground level? Why not make the felling cut at 3' high, where it is easier to see what you are doing and a smaller diameter as well? I'm an arborist, not a logger. I'm not concerned with saving lumber when dropping trees, it all goes to the dump anyway. I wouldn't consider making a felling notch while on my knees at ground level. My comfortable working height is 32"-36" off the ground (the trunk normally gets chunked into 16" pieces for handling and disposal anyway).

Ianab

Cut at 3 ft... and thow away the BEST part of the log ? :o
If you can figure out how to trim a tree off AT ground level let us know  :D

I know it feels awkward holding the saw backward but just keep a firm hold and be aware of where the tip is, especially as you enter the log.

As for the actual backcut, you should be able to cut one side completely, the non escape side. Start a couple of wedges once you have room. Now move around to the escape side and start cutting that, a couple more wedges and you should have the tree sitting on the hinge and the wedges. If the lean is the right way it should just fall over :) Otherwise you can drive the wedges to get things started
I often do the plunge cutting method as well, especially with leaning trees, it enables you to get the hinge correct before you let things go.
Boring into the centre of the notch will let you cut trees a bit over 2 times your bar length, but you shouldn't have to do that here.
I'm not sure how the safety chain is for boring though ???

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Sawyerfortyish

I think the safty chain is more dangerous when plunge cutting than pro chain. I use pro chain and have no problem.

rebocardo

I am cutting a 48 dbh oak and trying not to butcher it. I could hack it off at 4 feet and turn the whole tree into firewood, I do ot think that is the best use of a tree 150+ years old that was growing before the Civil War in Georgia.

I usually cut where ever my saw reaches while bending over, usually 12-18 inches above ground. Where the tree is falling it is 48 dbh width wise, though with butt flare it is probably close to 60 inches along the direction towards the notch.

Which is why I am concerned (I think the word is more close to afraid)  with technique. The first twenty feet of the tree probably weighes 12,000+ pounds and I do not want to make mistakes.

The other thing is leverage, the extra 3-4 feet you gain by going lower gives your winch line extra leverage too.

If you know what I mean.

SasquatchMan

Is the base of that tree buttressed?  Can you cut through the flare to give yourself a functionally smaller tree?
Senior Member?  That's funny.

9shooter

I felled a 48" white oak last year with a 20" bar on a 029 stihl. Hey....it's what I had. I would have prefered a bigger saw and a longer bar, but you use what you've got. I don't care for saftey chain, I use a full chisel chain.  I cut this tree to preserve as much of the log as possible which is the way I was raised when I used to be a real sawyer. On the notch side I first cut the buttress off. I always use what we called a veneer notch/cut. After the tree is notched I like to score a line around the trunk so that everything lines up nicely. I then side cut and then make the felling cuts from each side. IN hindsight I wished I had plunged the center of the notch. White oaks are often big mushroom shaped in their form. You need to carefully gauge any lean or bias in the form of the top and plan and clear if neccessary 3 or so safty egress routes. After the back cuts were  in 8-10 inches, I start driving wedges in to help the tree descide where it's going to fall. In this case the weight was so uniform that I ended up driving stacked wedges to complete the job because I cut the back cuts to the point where there was  a minimun hinge left.  :o I did a lot of the cuts on my knees. Always be aware of where the bar tip is at. Windy days are better spent fishing.

My father-in-law told me about a big hemlock that his brother an he felled using a crosscut saw and axes. They kept sawing away and all of a sudden the tree dropped down on the blade. They looked at each other and watched in amazement as the tree started slowly rotating on the stump. His brother paniced and took off running and sure enough the tree started falling right in line with his egress route. My father-in-law watched with horror as the top came right down on top of his brother. A little bit later his brother crawled out from under the top and began cussing away. It turned out that just as the top reached him he fell in a depression in the ground. Dad-in-law said "you should have seen his knees knocken".  Be safe.

I got about 700bdft quarter saw  lumber from that one tree.
Earth First! We'll log the other planet's later!

rebocardo

I am going to put two deadman lines on it from near by oaks 40-80 feet away on the right and left, then put an anchor line unto the pintle hook of my truck, then another one to the winch line in my bed.  Total of four lines.

Plus, I am going to anchor my truck from the front to another tree in case the oak wants to fall backwards. Probably 3/8 chain.

Though it does not have any lean I can see so I probably will stick with 1/4 winch cable and the 4 ton come-long for the deadman lines.

I have settled on using a 28 inch bar and having a 24 inch bar as a back up and two Husky saws. One is my current 365 and I am buying probably a 385. The 48 inch bars are too much money to justify buying a 395 to run them on a mill just for one tree.

I am probably going to buy a 30 or 50 ton bottle jack and modify it to safely use on the tree including cables wrapped around the tree base to prevent it being spit out too far when the tree falls. I am trying to find ones with a by-pass circuit. I already have 1/2" steel bases for the top and bottom with holes for cables to run through so they do not get spitted out under pressure.
 
I just finished doing a 24 inch sweetgum using the the hard back wedges from Baileys with the metal plates on the back end of the plastic wedges. They worked great. I did not even use the winch.

I am going to buy longer ones for this oak. I had thought about buying aluminum wedges for more lift, but, decided on using a jack instead if I need it. I think four of these hard backed wedges unstacked  in the back cut should work fine. I like to support the tree and then take it down with the winch line while I am 130+ feet away, when possible on big trees (to me anything 20+ inches is big).
 
> Windy days are better spent fishing.  

You have that right. If it is windy or towards the only building it could possible hit, it will have to be done another day.

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