What are these called??? Vines???

[Typhoon]

Hey... I know that I should know this. But im sure several folks on here will know. What are those vines that grow around trees called? I have 35 acres or so of timber, and I have one area, about 1 acre, that is just almost overtaken by this stuff. Some of them wrapping around the tree trunks are as big as my forearm. My uncle told me that they were bad, and that they will eventually kill the trees that they wrap around, so I have been cutting them. I spent about an hour with a chainsaw yesterday cutting them. I just make one cut close to the ground to cut the supply off to the rest of the vine going up the tree. I also notice, after a couple days of cutting them, this clear gel looking stuff comes out of where you cut them. Kinda cool. Anyways, anybody know what they are called and if they really will kill your trees? Thanks!
-Brad

[etat]

If it's completely taking over the trees only thing it can be is kudzu.  It was brought in here years ago to help solve soil erosion.  I'm not sure of all the details, but at one time the Soil Conservation Service  sprigged it out.  Yes, It will kill the trees.  I'm trying to remember all this from memory but the roots grow VERY VERY deep, poison will knock it back, but won't kill it.  There is only One way to control it.  Fence in the affected area, (better be a good fence) and put goats on it.  It is one of their favorite foods.  I have seen it cover abandoned houses, trees, heck, everything.  If it is close to your yard you can keep it mowed down.  The highway department and the power department poison it every year around here but it just keeps coming back.

[etat]

http://www.cptr.ua.edu/kudzu/

[Ianab]

Not sure what vine you have there, but we have similar problems with various introduced vines here in NZ. They eventually grow up into the crowns of the trees and shade the slower growing tree leaves, this quickly kills off the tree. The vines can spread from tree to tree or over the ground and eventually cover acres of forest.
A bit of time spent with a saw or axe is a good start, but investigate some chemical control to follow up. Probably need some paint on herbicide to cover the cut stumps and / or a follow up spray of the new growth once it shoots again (it is almost certain that it will  >:( >:(   )

Thes are some guidelines from local regional council web page:

SEARCH - and trace all vines back to ground level
CLEAR - a small area around the base of the vines
CUT - all vines as close to the ground as possible
TREAT - freshly cut stumps with an undiluted herbicide such as: • Glyphosate (Roundup, Network Glyphosate 360 etc) • Woody Weed Killer • Vigilant • Banvine A small paint brush is a useful tool for painting stumps.When used incorrectly herbicides can be harmful. Follow the instructions on the container label.
FINALLY - ensure that the hanging vines are clear of the ground so that they cannot take root. They may be left in the tree to break down.

hope this helps
Otherwise post a picture of the weed and I'm sure someone will be able to ID it for you.

Ian

[Larry]

Sounds just like regular grapevines to me.  Seems they are especially prevalent on walnut trees.  Yes they can kill a tree and at best they will slow the growth way down.

I cut them every winter in my woodlot as part of TSI.  Treat the cut stem with Toredon RTU right after you cut them and you can eventually control them.  I was worried about the chemical translocating to the roots of the walnuts but after using Toredon for about 5 years I haven't noticed any side effects.  Trees putting on fiber much faster now and have bigger crowns.

[Larry]

Just read Lan's post and he has some good idea's.  I have and still use Glyphosate but it works best when vines are actively growing (like when its warm).  You have to use the 41% stuff full strength for cut stump treatment and as far as I know it is only available in 2-1/2 gallon jugs at around $130 (Roundup on sale).  Toredon RTU comes in a pint bottle with an applicator.  Use it any time of the year.  Seems like the price is 15 to 20 bucks/bottle and it will do a lot of vines.

[Typhoon]

Ok I dont think its Kudzu. It doesnt look like what is in the pictures. The vines I am referring to dont have any leaves that I can see. They just go way up the trees into the tops, and most of them are averaging the diamater of a quarter, but like I said, some of them are the diameter of a soda can.  They have bark on them and everything.
Thanks.

[etat]

Hey, sorry about the false alarm on the kudzu.  Now it sure does sound like grapevines.  Again, sorry for the false alarm.

[Bro. Noble]

If it has a lot of shoots off the main vine with little greenish-white berries,  it's poison ivy  

You probably have about the same kinds of vines that we do.  If it's not grape vines or poison ivy,  my next guess would be virginia creeper.  When the leaves are out,  lots of people think it's poison ivy,  but Virginia creeper has 5 leaves and poison ivy only 3.

[Engineer]

Sounds like grapevines to me.  I cut a big cherry down that had grapevines growing into it from another tree nearby, and the big cherry (it was 28" dbh) didn't move until it was cut almost completely through due to the strength of the vines.

Some of them can grow as big as 4-6" diameter, and make all kinds of loops and curls at ground level.  They root from the curls too, so one vine may be rooted in several places.  Bark is dark purplish/reddish brown, and they leak clear sap when cut.  

I personally don't cut them as I see them, because they make great smoking wood for barbecue, and one vine per year will get me enough short pieces for the season.

Jon E

[beenthere]

You should be able to identify them better in the growing season, but if five leaflets it is likely virginia creeper. See this site for a description
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/V/Virgncrpr.asp

If three leaflets, it is poison ivy.

Grape will be different yet.

I cut them as soon as I catch them growing on the tree. The first year they are about pencil size, and up to 1/2" diameter the following year. They can grow quite tight to the bark, and WILL kill the trees, at least in my forest they do.

[Don P]

Wisteria and honeysuckle are 2 more that spring to mind (I'm trying to use warm weather words today  :D)
Our poison ivy vines are hairy, almost like blackened cornsilks in the late summer. I could count growth rings on the arm sized vines around here when we first got the place. A factoid I saw in a magazine somewhere, a Smithsonian employee was cleaning up and handled a 100+ year old poison ivy vine... got it. I see a black tar sometimes on a older cut, aint' touchin that.

BTW, grapevine wreaths and baskets are a great way to bring powderpost beetles into the house. They'll likely pop out when they warm up.

[Typhoon]

Thanks for the replies guys... from what you all said, I am going to say they are most likely Grapevines. They leak clear sap when cut, gel-like sap, and have the dark bark like Don said. So now im curious.. why no grapes???

[rebocardo]

The worse thing about vines is it lets insects get into the bark where birds and other insects can not kill them.

From what I have seen with trees and vines, it is the very small ants or termites that get a foothold first because they live between the vine and bark with the stickers attaching it to the tree providing a good defensive area the ants can get into and out of easily. They then start building a nest in the crotch or a Y of the tree.

Then as the vine grows, it opens up the bark more and provides more hiding for grubs. I do not know what they are called exactly, but, the ones in GA seem to like to eat around the bark and then burrow through the sap wood. Grubs pulled from the middle of the tree are about 3-4 inches long and 1/2" wide.

By this time, the tree is a dead man standing when the carpenter ants move in which weakens it enough so it falls over.

Anytime I am removing a tree covered in vines, no matter how large it is, I now assume all the wood is good for nothing and the only thing really holding it up is vines.

I had a pine tree come down by accident when the other tree I was falling hit it with only a few branches and when the vine covered tree hit the ground it literally fell apart it was so riddled with bugs.

[Wudman]

If there is an acre of it, I would lean toward wisteria.  Grape vines don't tend to be that prolific.  If it is wisteria, there is probably an old house site in the area.  It was a commonly planted ornamental years ago and will run wild.  Wisteria has a very pretty purple flower (until you have to run cruise lines through it).  Other thoughts would be something in the creeper family (Virginia creeper, trumpet creeper, etc.).  The creepers tend to be fairly shade intolerant, so the area would probably be fairly open if one of these species.

Wudman

[OneWithWood]

Typhoon,
It sure sounds like grape vines to me.  You do not see the grapes because they grow way up in the crown of the tree and are very hard to spot when the tree is leafed out.  The grape vines in my area grow thick and covered acres of woods before I did some serious eradication.  I still cut vines whenever I encounter them except for the trees in an edge area.  The grapes are a great source of food for wildlife.  When cutting vines I find it prudent to cut a two foot section out of the vine.  Spray the root stock and make sure the dangling vine cannot contact the ground.

[Bro. Noble]

That gel-like sap would make me think it is grapevines.  Sometimes the gel turns orange in places.

Those grapes are too small to do much with even if you could reach them-------about the size of a BB.  They call them 'Possum grapes' here.  There are are a few larger (about the size of a small marble) wild grapes called muskidines or something like that.  Grapes are really easy to graft.  You can graft tame grapes on wild grape vines.

[RMay]

We have two species of vines that is called rattan one of them has a smooth green bark and one has bark like the possum grape and muskidines . The leaves on the rattans are oblong 1-2 inches long . its in all of the hardwoods in south a Arkansas . :