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saw chain sharpener help

Started by maple flats, April 29, 2010, 09:44:35 AM

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maple flats

I have always sharpened my chains by hand and get very good results but I have help who do poorly sharpening. Because of this I am considering buying a grinder. I see in Bailey's new flyer that they offer 2 I might consider based on answers I get here. I see an Oregon mini grinder, 115v, 85watt unit at $189.95. Anyone give pro's/cons for this one. I only run 2 saws, a Husky 359 and Husky 365, both with 3/8 semi chisel. Is this worth the cost or should I go for the MAXX pro grinder at $389.95. My use is just to cut about 20 full cord annually including felling and also felling and bucking for my sawmill up to maybe 20 to 30 trees from 16" up to maybe 48", along with a few bucks on logs delivered to the mill. The helper who has sharpening problems only cuts firewood, on the ground and usually dragged in. The reason I am thinking grinder rig is because of time needed to keep chains ahead for him. I realize a different helper who can sharpen would be a good choice but I don't see that happening.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

beenthere

I'd be willing to bet that poor help sharpening by hand will be poorer help sharpening by grinder. They can do much more damage much faster with a grinder.
The motivation I had to keep from cutting into the ground, was having to sharpen my own chains by hand.

Something to think about.   Not sure why you need to put up with poor help (father, son, free ?), but don't need to know.  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

pineywoods

I'm cheap.. Harbor freight grinder at $29.95 works fine for me.  BUT, it is basicly a "touch-up " grinder. Not good if you tend to grind a 1/4 inch off the tooth.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

timber tramp

  Can you sit him down for an hour or two, and teach him to file properly? That's what I've done with all three of my boys (starting at age 12 or so). The oldest now 19 wanted a saw when he was about 15, I gave him an old Homelite I had kicking around, but first took it out in the yard and plunge cut straight down, then handed him a file and told him if he could make it throw chips he could have it. He's since bought a Husky that he really loves, but that old Homelite was sharp as a razor.   :) TT
Cause every good story needs a villan!

maple flats

I would be using it not him. I have trained him several times in depth to properly sharpen but the only time he does well is during the training. He does other thing OK but not sharpening. His mentality is that taking the proper time to sharpen is wasting time or is non productive time. I haven't been able to get him to see the value of greater production and safety by taking the time to sharpen as soon as it needs to be done, he just pushes harder and wears on the saw, chain and bar more. I tell him to sharpen when needed but he never seems to stop and sharpen. I now hope he will put on a fresh chain if I have some pre-sharpened.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

bill m

By the time you take the chain off of the saw, sharpen it, cleanup the bar groove and saw and reinstall the chain you could sharpen 2 chains by hand, At one time I had 6 guys working for me and 12 saws going every day so I bought a grinder. It's good for the chains that have hit metal, rocks , or concrete but the ones that were just wood dull or hit some dirt it was faster to hand sharpen. Haven't used my grinder for a couple of years now.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

jteneyck

I am deleting my posting because someone made an unauthorized modification, and I could not re-edit it out.  If you disagree with something I've posted be man enough to say it openly. 

TimRB

So to answer the OP's question, I have one of the Oregon Mini-grinders and it works fine.  I'm glad I bought it.  If you buy one, just be sure to set it up so you don't remove too much material.  One, you need to remove far less than you think (as you probably already know from hand-sharpening), and two, if you remove a lot, you'll overheat the cutters.  If you set it up properly, probably even your helper can sharpen chains with it and do no harm--it's not rocket science.

Tim

ladylake

No rocket science is right and over here I can take a 20" chain off the saw sharpen and have back on in 4 minutes. I do that when I'm sharpening a bandsaw which takes 6 to 7 minutes to go around. Saves a LOT of money.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Flats,I'am not saying buy a silvey but if you did you'd have a grin everytime you used it,get a grinder better than you think you need or can afford.The value of A grinder is you remove the chain and clean the bar and oil passages.A grinder sets the proper angles and tooth legnth is even, and you can file between grindings,provided you don't overheat the cutter by hogging off too much at a time.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

John Mc

Personally, if I had help that just didn't get it as far as sharpening goes, I wouldn't have them sharpening at all, unless one of them showed some interest and aptitude for doing it properly. Then I might be able to live with some mediocre results during his/her learning process.

I also think all going to a powered grinder is going to accomplish is that they can ruin more chains faster. It's hard to overheat a chain by hand sharpening.

If you are getting a grinder for your own use, get them some extra chains and just put a few more chains in rotation. Then you (or someone with a clue) can just sharpen a bunch up ahead of time. They can surely swap them out, can't they? If they can't handle that, maybe they shouldn't be operating the saw in the first place
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Jeff

Quote from: jteneyck on April 29, 2010, 01:50:31 PM
I am deleting my posting because someone made an unauthorized modification, and I could not re-edit it out.  If you disagree with something I've posted be man enough to say it openly. 

I'll be man enough Mr. jteneyck. Nobody edited your post, the forum software did it automatically because of my disdain for a certain company that rip off our sponsors by acquiring their products, then sending them off to china to make inferior copies, then selling to those that think they may be getting a deal at the cost to all the rest of us. They have even gone as far to steal their graphics for their packaging.

Since this is my privately owned website, and the sponsors pay my bills, I've made the decision that certain unethical companies will get no positive press here. You stumbled on the major culprit.  The Forum software, the same part that edits profanity can be used for other purposes as well, like voicing my editorial opinion.  Now please don't come back with any reasons why I "can't" do that, because they will not fly. Just like if you come in my front door and start talking about a subject I don't appreciate or agree with, I'll inject my dominant opinion, because hey, its my house. The same can happen here.

Man, if that caused you to have such a tizzy, god help us if you happen to come on on yooper night.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

jteneyck

Jeff, if it's your website you have the right to do whatever you want; however, editors typically (always?) mark their edits so the reader knows who did what.  What I objected to was the fact that someone edited my posting w/o stating it, making it appear as if those were my words.  And if you feel so strongly about this and other issues, please post them somewhere for all to see. 

As to this specific issue, that's how the free market works.  If it's not patented, you are free to copy, improve, sell for less, whatever.  The consumer ultimately decides who wins or loses. 

John

Jeff

Quote from: jteneyck on April 30, 2010, 07:17:06 PM
And if you feel so strongly about this and other issues, please post them somewhere for all to see. 

I'd guesstimate my opinions are posted a few thousand times mixed among the half million posts here already. Add the above to it for one more.

You can also be assured, if a post is ever altered by anyone other then the original poster, its authorized.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

stonebroke

Jeff, Does that mean we are going to have a Yooper night soon. We are about due. I always enjoy them.

Stonebroke

maple flats

Two points. China or more correctly Chinese companies routinely STEEL patented products and copies them and passes them on to the unsuspecting.
Second, I asked a question about a specific product and got very little answer on what I asked. In this case, thanks for nothing. I made my mind up without your input. I ordered the Maxx from Bailey's. I chose that because it looked better designed for left to right simitry and a more powerful motor but I think the biggest reason was the automatic clamping when the motor swings down. Again, I never said I was going to have my helper use the sharpener. My plan was and is to keep several chains ready to go and keep on him to change the chain as soon as it does not cut LIKE NEW. My objective is to keep chains ready ahead without using up too much of my time. I have several endeavors I am in and I can't be wasting time doing several chains bu hand at a time, my time can be better spent. I did look at the Silvey but that looked too rich for my needs.
Sorry about my somewhat bitter reply but I feel I was let down this time.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

bandmiller2

M Flats,bitter or not you made a good choice with the better grinder,I've owned the pilot model since 1976 and its served me well.I found it handy to use a diamond wheel dresser to shape the wheels.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

maple flats

Thanks Frank C, I'll look into that.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Al_Smith

 :D Well I don't know what dirty word was used concerning  cheap grinders so I'll attempt to not use any .

However it would stand to reason that a majority if not all of the less expensive grinders are Chinese take offs . Those that are not are manufactured by or for large companies in an attempt to use slave wage labor to insure a higher profit margin .Seems to be the way of the world now of days . Like Stihl parts made in China or Lincolns made in Mexico . >:(

In my own little life no more than I use a saw a grinder might be handy to repair a rocked chain or to rough in a race chain instead of filing non stop for four hours .Much else than that I see no reason for them ,in my case that is .

LeeB

I bought one of the cheapo $30 ones from HF. I only use it to take out the grunt work in a rocked chain and then fine tune by hand. Normal every day sharpening is by hand. I just don't saw enough to warrant a more expensive sharpener.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

sawbob011

I use an Oregon bar mounted guide. it takes a minute to set up but im so lowsy at sharpening free hand that its well worth the extra minute. onse its on there I can sharpen as fast and maybe a little faster than my buddy who CAN sharpen freehand. I also have a bench mounted one for my extra chain. With that I just set the chain in place and start, no time wasted trying to fit it to the bar. I once considered buying a grinder until the guy at the saw shop talked me into these. He had the same reasoning some people have had here, you can do more damage with the grinder than good. The bench mount and bar mount were also the preffered sharpening tools used at the shop. He said the gringer was only used for carbide chains (which maybe you should get your helper if hes going throu them so fast ). Thats my 2 scence.
Echo CS-400 started it all
011 AVT
026

Al_Smith

 Oregon has made a file guide for decades and still does .Like 8 bucks for the thing which comes with a file included .A good file,better than Oregon sells for about a dollar .Baileys must  have box car full  of them no doubt . For about 20 bucks,file guide and a dozen files anyone can learn to hand file a chain . Well at least they should get the basics if nothing else .

den

Like it or not most companies in this counry steal ideas. Ford, Gm has cars from all over the world in their R&D.
I've first hand seen the world's largest MFG ( of a type of construction equipment )take anothers product, take it apart in R&D and in 6 months it was at a trade show. You couldn't tell the differance but the color.
If americans do it I guess it's ok ?
Homelite SuperXL, 360, Super2, Stihl MS251CB-E, Sotz M-20 20lb. Monster Maul, Wallenstein BXM-42

Jeff

I don't care whether anyone thinks its ok or not. Its not okay here.  Den, you seem to be attracted when ever I voice my position on this. It seems to bring you out of the wood work. Hopefully you will find something other then this to fill your interests here because its going to be a sour topic with me and not something I'm willing to have debated on my website.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Al_Smith

Firstly my comments following are not a debate nor meant to cause a fire storm ,just an observation .

Years back my wife bought me a 3 HP plunge router ,Ryobi made some place in the Carolina's . If you were to set it next to a Craftsman or Frued router the only difference is the color of the plastic parts .The big question now remains ,who exactly made the machine in the first place ?

Rebadging has been a common practice for decades .Poulan for example sold rebadged saws to a number of companies who sold the product for less than Poulan did .Poulan could care less because they made money no matter what color it was .

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