Pallet vs Sawlog

[Rob]

Hello Guys,

      I have a few questions actually,I personally have never done any cutting of pallet grade logs so I was wondering what exactly is the difference between a Sawlog an Pallet grade ??The reason I ask is I will be sub contracting for another local logger here who I will be selective cutting a 12 acre lot starting this monday.

      Also what is considered to be "Cordwood" from the timber and what length should these logs be cut at?Usually all the harvesting I do is all sawlog grade and the so called cordwood I cut to 4' lengths.Anyone have some tips for me..

                                    Thanks Rob.

[Ron Scott]

Rob,
Normally anything that doesn't make a grade sawlog or of low grade can be pallet stock to a 10"top diameter inside bark (dib) (8" for pine) or it can be put into pulpwood (cordwood) to a 3.5" top dib.

The length will be 100" (8' + 4" for trim) logs, bolts, or sticks
depending upon the product being harvested.

However, It is always best to check with the logger you are working for and the local market area though to see what they specifically want in sizes and quality for their specific markets. The specs may be different in some markets and different areas. You will want to harvest the highest paying and "all products" for maximum utilization of the wood.

[Ed_K]

 The mills I send logs to, tell me 10" and up and straight, are sawlogs. 10" and down to 5" are either pallet stock or cordwood if its hardwood. Pallet stock needs to be straight and 10' 6" and longer. No one wants 8 footers, 5% of a load, max. Crooked and nottie hardwood goes for cordwood and my truckers want it cut 20' max. Which may it ok when it gets to the yard I cut an 8' off it, and they go to the 4' woodsplitter, and stacked. The 12' s go on the processor.



 Ed K

[Ron Wenrich]

A lot of it depends on your local markets.  The guy who does the bucking decides the grade of every board that falls off of a log.  Do it right, and everyone makes bucks.  Do it wrong......

I don't see small logs on our circle mill.  It doesn't really pay to roll them onto the headblocks.  A 12" log is small for our operations.  We like to cut ties from the low grade.  Tie logs pay more than pallet logs and they need to be at least 12" amd straight.  Get a little crook, then you need more wood.

We send out smaller logs to a scragg mill.  They need to be straight and of smaller size.  They can rip through those much better than a circle or band mill.  Size will depend on the operation, but I've seen some pretty small stuff on the trucks.

We also take the straight oak and cut that into firewood on our MultiTek.  

Everything else goes into cordwood.  The softwoods we put into chicken wood - stuff that is made into shavings for the chicken farmers.  The others go to the paper mills.

You need to check out the local markets and the regs before you start cutting.  They vary from area to area.

[Rob]

 Hello fellas,

         Thanks for your help an replies I appreciate it,I'll have to talk with the other logger tonight and determine exactly what I need to do before I start tomorrow.Thanks again

                                        Rob.

[hills_logging]

here in NY our pallet grade wood is 10" min diam., straight and sound. Basicly the same as a sawlog, only there is no need for any clear faces. This goes for tie logs also .

[Ron Wenrich]

Seems like 10" is pretty standard for the smallest log diameter.  So, why do some foresters persist in scaling to an 8" top?   :D

[Ed_K]

 I feel that forester's do this to get us loggers to haul out some no value stock for free. One of my forester's marks down to 6" dbh for cordwood, takes a lot of extra work to bundle up enough for a skidder load  >:(. And all of them around here like to mark x's (free trees) to try to get you to haul out some pretty lame stuff.
 Ed K

[Rob]

  The foresters up my way mark down too 8",and down to 3" for cordwood..Which kinda works out good in a way since pretty much all the wood product is getting used instead of leaving it in the forest,usually all thats left on any of my op's is just small diameter slash and maybe a few grade cut chunks.

                                     Rob.

[hills_logging]

  cripes, how do you get your foresters to even pay attention to this? All our foresters are getting paid by percentage, so as you can guess it's all high graded!!
If the forester has a vested interest, ie: its his property, or a friends, then it's the opposite. We cut on a foresters own lot last year, for every sawlog marked, there was about 5 or 6 cull trees. By the way, he burns wood also.

[Ron Scott]

Rob's foresters has it right   ;) Follow the merchantability standards and Utilize the wood and leave a landscaped forest.

 

[Ron Wenrich]

Im glad I'm not the only one seeing some foresters doing high-grading.  That's the problem with percentage sales.  

I've always preferred to work on a $/Mbf.  It doesn't pay me anymore to mark out good stuff than it does the junk.  I usually like to mix it so that it attracts a buyer.

Scaling should be to what the local standards are.  If you can't sell logs at 8", why scale that low?  It only inflates the sale volume, but is really hard to recover.  There isn't enough volume in the extra 1/2 log to make it worthwhile, from a cruising perspective.

Another beef is considering sawlogs in the limbs.  Yea, there may be a few that you can get, but to scale them in the volume makes no sense.  A lot of those bust up when they hit the ground.  I scale to the major crotch or 1/2 log longer if the tree warrants.  

Pulpwood to 3" is pretty small.  I don't see them on any of the trucks.  Its OK if you're running a chipper and a feller buncher.  Labor costs are too high to justify marking such small wood and expect a logger to make a living from it.  That's TSI work which the landowner should undertake as an expense.

Pulpwood in our area is about 6" and up.  You have to mark for your local markets, if you are looking at a merchantable sale.

The landscaping aspect is OK, but after a few years, most of the fines and the like are gone.  Topwood also helps protect seedlings from deer browse.

[jrdwyer]

I mark sawtimber trees to 10" DIB, but I know of a few mills in my area that will go smaller, to 8" DIB for pallet material. Of course, I always get certain mills complaining that 10" is too small and that they only use 12" DIB for ties and don't mess with pallet stock. 10" just seems to be a good compromise.

Why do some foresters chose 8" DIB. Maybe it has to do with the Forest Service standard grades for hardwood lumber logs listing 8" as the smallest diameter for grade 3 logs. These standards go way back to 1966 or earlier. Blame the Forest Service.

I work on a percentage and have no problem marking stands hard where needed and wanted. For example, yesterday I was marking a clearcut in a seasonally flooded woods. Mostly silver maple, pecan, green ash, hackberry. The regeneration- poison ivy-100%. A selective cut in this woods will not work from a financial and silvicultural standpoint, so I marked everything possible down to 8" DBH (4" DIB pulpwood) and hope the eventual buyer will take it all. From my standpoint, it is just as fast to mark it all and have 100% tally than to cruise this tract.

[swampwhiteoak]

8", 10", or 12"?

Honestly with eastern hardwoods I've never thought of it making too much of a difference.  Scale to the first significant group of branches and you will have the tree height.  Rarely have I found that it is less than 10" except in smaller trees.  I could see it being a problem with aspen I suppose but I haven't worked much with that species.  I'm talking about your typical mixed oak forest.

As long as buyers are informed, they can figure any "useless" volume and place their bids accordingly.  Cruising and marking is a bit of a guessing game and not meant to be perfect or we wouldn't all be scaling to the nearest half log in two-inch classes.

For the record us staties in Ohio scale to a 12 inch top.
If someone is gaining an extra few board-feet in grade 3 or worse material I can live with that. ;)

[Ron Scott]

Some of the aspen stud mills utilize bolt wood to a 7" top dib. Maximum utilization of the wood for all marketable products is preferred. Appraise the wood accordingly.

[OneWithWood]

Hey jrdwyer, welcome to the forum!  Mosey on over to the members map, plant a tree and let us know where you are from and a little something about you.
Hang around, this is a great place with a great bunch of people  8)