Stumps ! What Do You Do?

[Heart Wood]

Okay, Those very annoying  stumps. Its probably the same everywhere. No one wants them. What do you do with stumps on a clear cut for commercial property development.

1. Do you grind them - what is involved with this?
2. Do you dig them out and find a place to dump them? ( alot of time and cost)
3. Do you bury them onsite?
4. Leave them for the next guy to worry about or just hope they go away?

I am looking at a 50 acre clear cut job to bid on and the first question the developer asked is What do you do with stumps?

I did not go into details, because I don't know what the species of trees or the size.  It is probably 2nd growth mixed hardwoods, nothing more than 24 inches in diameter.  Mostly, under 18 inches.  In any case, my initial response was cut them to ground level and when property is excavated for roads the stumps can be removed at that time.  Additionally, when commercial lots are developed not every stump has to be removed on the property because you don't yet know building size, parking lots, etc. No sense digging up eveything.

A friend of mine got into a nightmare last year with a developer with a ten acre clear cut.  The developer happened to be an excavator and said he would get all the trees to the ground and wanted trees chipped.  Well, as you can expect, when the trees were pushed over to the ground large root balls followed.  The guy with a Mobark whole tree chipper was expected to chip not just the tree but, you guessed it, the root ball too.  There were  a couple hundred large hardwood trees.  The deal  was terminated the chipper guy ended up doing a lot of trees for free.  Many of the trees are still stacked in a mangled mess.     

I am trying to save the developer money but also do what is practical.  For those with experience - how do you handle stumps?  What have been your experieces good or bad?  Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,
Heart Wood

[4genlgr]

don't know where you are but burying stumps in some locals is not allowed. one guy i know developed lot tract that was mostly ledge no soil depth at all.. he brought in a tub grinder or a hammer mill of some sort and used the material for silt filtration around the site. if your not the dirt guy on this job  ::)aahh it may be someone elses problem, it is of course always good to have sugestions

[Ron Scott]

You will want to be very clear on what you are contracting for, just cutting and removing the trees or also clearing and cleaning the landscape to a level surface as well. If the latter, then you will have stump removal and earth work to do. You will then be responsible for the entire land clearing project.

Usuallly the stumps are moved off site or hauled to an approved  "stump dump" somewhere. Stump removal may be subcontracted to someone else who has the equipment and where-withall to handle this part of the land clearing if you don't have the required stump removal equipment etc.

[Restoman]

I guessing you can't burn them?  Just excavate them and burn on site.  Just haul them to the landfill?

[ErikC]

  Burning them never works that good, green stumps and wet dirt won't go very good and there is still alot to clean up.  If you are contracting to remove the trees, the stumps and earthwork should be a separate contract or part of the contact, it will cost considerably more than double to do both. I have done stump removal and site prep after tree service guys did the falling, even on small one lot projects I made at least as much as them.
  For complete removal digging them with a bigger excavator is fastest in my experience.  You may have to pay to dump them-make sure you find out first. If so grinding will probably pay because it will lessen the trucking as well. Burying them is probably not acceptable. On 50 acres it is a huge amount to handle. You will be there for years if you don't have or rent the right equipment.
  You can make more money on this aspect than the logging if you are equipped and use your head but if you aren't/don't you will be upside down in a big way. Spell the contract out very clearly. Good luck whatever goes on.

[madhatte]

We recently hired a guy with a tub grinder who collects the chips from ripped stumps and re-sells them as hogfuel for biomass-burning power plants.  If the infrastructure were developed, it may be possible to make stump removal a reality on a much larger scale.  Of course, with that comes new problems, not the least of which is disturbance of topsoil and siltation from runoff on even mild slopes.  My feeling is that stumps should be left alone unless they are removed for disease control or for land development.  Otherwise, I strongly suspect the losses will always outweigh the gains. 

[okie]

Forum member Texas Timbers posted a tree felling video where he used Tannerite to down a tree, ever since I've been itching to use this on some stumps I got :D :D. There are recipes for tannerite on the internet as well as some awesome you tube videos  :P.

[sjfarkas]

Harvest the wood and pile all of the slash,tops, limbs, etc. in an accessable location for a tub grinder and out of the way for the excavation.  Then dig the stumps out with a large excavator or use a large dozer with a single shank ripper.  Throw the stumps in the pile too.  Bring in a tub grinder with 4 inch screens and grind it all into a pile.  Knock down the pile to no more than 6' high so it doesn't catch on fire.  After the dirt is moved the grindings can be used for erosion control and most likely it will save the developer money.  They might balk at the cost of the grinder, but it will save them time and hassle and then they don't have to buy erosion control materials.  I am in the process of bidding jobs just like that for a General Engineering Contractor.  He and I are also looking into a way to efficiently distribute the grindings onto all the fill slopes.

[Ironmower]

  Burning them never works that good, green stumps and wet dirt won't go very good and there is still alot to clean up.  If you are contracting to remove the trees, the stumps and earthwork should be a separate contract or part of the contact, it will cost considerably more than double to do both. I have done stump removal and site prep after tree service guys did the falling, even on small one lot projects I made at least as much as them.
  For complete removal digging them with a bigger excavator is fastest in my experience.  You may have to pay to dump them-make sure you find out first. If so grinding will probably pay because it will lessen the trucking as well. Burying them is probably not acceptable. On 50 acres it is a huge amount to handle. You will be there for years if you don't have or rent the right equipment.
  You can make more money on this aspect than the logging if you are equipped and use your head but if you aren't/don't you will be upside down in a big way. Spell the contract out very clearly. Good luck whatever goes on.

This would be a no-no now, but on the orchards when we was clearin' a block to replant, we would dig a giant hole. Go to the tire shop and pick-up a truckload of old tires shove the hole with tires, add diesel, getter' hot and start shove in the trees, roots and all . Thats the only way I know to get the green and dirt layedin' stumps to burn ;). Likely go to jail for this now : ;D ;D

[ErikC]

  Well Ironmower, you've got me there. :D Green stumps covered in wet dirt will burn that way.

[Randy88]

Don't know if it'll help at all but here goes, I've done a lot of land clearing in the past and yes stumps are a pain and I've been looking at alternatives too compared to grubbing and burning and yes we burn them but its time consuming as all get out just keep shuffling from one burn pile to the next until you get the dirt dried out and knocked off so they can burn the wood, I've been talking to a lot of guys that cut the tree and grind the stump out with a stump grinder, then spread the grindings for erosion control and it seems to be a sucess for them, I came across a pto stump grinder for a tractor and it'll take up to 200hp and the folks I've talked to say its cost effective to do it and I've been pushing the pencil and it looks to be a dirt cheap way to go so to speak compared to grubbing and grinding the stumps or hauling them off site.   I haven't done this myself yet but we've researched all the alternatives and its looking very appealing to me.   All the land we have cleared in the past we grub and burn until theres nothing left and have done hundreds of acres that way and have had no problems as of yet but its looking that stump grinding is a cheaper way to go to get rid of the stumps anyhow.   Hope this helps somewhat

[sjfarkas]

A large tub grinder will work and leave the mulch for erosion control.  use a large excavator with a narrow bucket to pull them out.  after they are out for a week or so then centralize the pile and the reason for waiting is to let the dirt dry a little and it comes off easier.  picking them up as high as you can lift and dropping them also helps clean them off.

[Dave Shepard]

We sheared the stumps from last winters clearing work. It makes them easy to handle, and removes the dirt. They can then be disposed of in a couple of different ways, grinding, burning, or stump dump, depending on legality. We have a guy here locally that takes all sorts of dirt, stumps, logs, chips and other debris and grinds, composts and screens the material to offer a variety of different products.

[wi woodcutter]

We burn them as best as we can then bury them. It works OK. Some companies around here grind them but I have never seen them do it.