hudson bar saw

[tj240]

My boss bought a hudson bar saw, i think it is a 45 hudson. The problem is, once we got the functions to work right, the chain speed is real slow, once it starts cutting the chain stops.It will torgue the motor, i mean it will pull on the saw motor, We dont know if it is a loader prob, or a saw prob, we got 2200 psi on the manifold. we dont have a schematic for the saw or the loader. the loader is a 180b, the main boom pressure is low 16000 psi.  i think it is a flow problem, any help will be apppreciated, thanks, it is a simple system ctr, csi all look the same as far as the functions work. Thanks for any help.

[xalexjx]

cutting hardwood or soft wood with it? The few iv ran had to have the control feathered with a sharp chain or the chain wood catch.

[BargeMonkey]

 I recently had some similar trouble, actually 3 problems 1 after the other. Check your belt and keyway, my saw would run fine, then stop, broken key. Then I changed saw hoses, got air into the system and she got slow and wanted to fight on the return, those saws take a while to purge air. Does the saw have spin on couplers ? I had a bad coupler that wasn't opening all the way. Hope that helps, I spent a few hours cussing at mine threatening to send it down the road and she wised up and started working fine.  :D

[BargeMonkey]

cutting hardwood or soft wood with it? The few iv ran had to have the control feathered with a sharp chain or the chain wood catch.

30 degree angle and just touch the rakers every so often and mine sends 3/4-1.5 inch chips 15-20ft. You are right, after being sharpened you have to watch especially on the bigger hardwood.

[kiko]

The pressure hose coming from the loader must go directly to the saw motor itself, not to the relief block. The return hose connects to the relief valve block.  The chain should cut from the bottom of the bar opposite of a chain saw.  The saw bar cylinder down works off the saw motor so a bad piston seal will dump a lot of the saw flow.  Also what Bargemonkey said ,  a return restriction will stall it as will a hose that has collapsed on the inside.

[tj240]

My boss made a bunch of calls.  He was told to send return to the tank, did that. the loader is set up for, a saw and buckboard, rehooked the lines, the saw wont come down unless i move the buckboard lever as well as the saw lever?  We still dont have the chain speed, if you slow down the saw alot it will cut. its hemlock and pine.  i think we have a serious flow problem. one of the calls, was to the motor people, they said 22 gals a minute, will run it, still doesnt work right.  i think kiko has a good piont. we didnt change anything on the saw, but the pressure line comes in 1 inch, then 3/4 to the pressure block, then out one inch to the motor. we will check that.  the person it was bought from never ran it, but said who he bought it from ran it everyday?  i know its something simple, but what ,we will try changining the pressure hose . thanks for your help. i will keep you posted.

[BargeMonkey]

 A short piece of 3/4 on the pressure side wouldn't restrict it that badly, I used a 3/4x15' hose on mine while I was getting a spare 1" and had no trouble. Wouldn't want to neck down the return, that could be trouble. Is your loader "lever"or electric over hydraulic ? Is it possible you've got 2 hoses swapped around on your valving with your hydro/board, something is fighting flow, I would look there first.
Once you get that working right you will never go back to cutting up on the ground, the only way to go.  :D 

[kiko]

Yes run the pressure hose from loader directly to the saw motor.  The other port on saw motor to relief block and hose leaving relief block return to tank or opposite side of control valve where saw pressure originates. If this speeds the saw up but chain is running over head swap the hoses on the saw motor.   I think I have a plumbing diagram, I will try to find it and post in the am. The bar up hose is usually 1/2 so it is not easy to cross up.  I recently encountered a Ctr saw with the same issue, they  bought it used and had never been able to make it work.  In order to make it work with out making up new hose I was able to flip the saw motor 180 on the mount bolts and swap the hoses at the loader.  Adjusted the bar down flow valve and it was cutting like it should.

[tj240]

i have run ctr, csi, barsaws and circle saws so i know how they should work. like i said before all the saw functions work, just no chain speed. havent tried kikos idea, cause what do i do with the other hoses? if kiko has the diragram that will be awesome. the loader is a 180b, with a 3 section pump. swing is good press. stick or jib is good, but the main boom press is 1600, should be 2500, i think this is the problem, not enough flow. The saw is set up the way it was bought, but all the hoses look original so we dont want to change that unless we have to. i appriciate all the help. kiko if you find the diagram sent it to jwilly, i dont have a printer. thank you all again!!!!

[kiko]

Could not find the old hudson book.  However i  did find the diagrams for the ctr and csi saws.  i will try to post one of them tomorrow.  They both show the plumbing as i thought.  Flow can be increased by combining flow from two sections of the pump.  Then freeing up swivel tube ports ,  two 8s make a 16.   The ctr and csi saws are rated at about 52 gallons a minute, for peak performance.  There is a good way to free up those ports by using the out rigger valves.  i will try to post on that later this evening.

[BargeMonkey]

 If you could post the CTR diagrams or any info you have on them I would greatly appreciate it, I've got nothing on this saw.

[kiko]

Here is the home made diagram  to free up swivel ports.   

 

[kiko]

Bargemonkey, what model ctr do you have?

[BargeMonkey]

Bargemonkey, what model ctr do you have?

I honestly don't know ??? I see an old CTR sticker on it, have no serial # and got no paperwork with it. Checked the belt when i bought it and havent had much trouble until the hose / coupling and replace a key, I will never ever go back to not having one. I would love to find out who the last owner was and get his #, came out of Milton Cat in Hopkinton NH.

 

[kiko]

Knowing it has a belt will help narrow it down.

[kiko]

Hosing diagram  The oilier maybe be different on the hudson the rest should be the same.

 

[BargeMonkey]

Thank you. That looks 99% right from what I see in the saw box. Anything to really watch out for on them ? So far it's been the best money I've ever spent, what I did in 2 days behind my log truck with 2 guys I do in 4-5hrs in the heat with a radio.  :D   

[tj240]

Finaly got it tot work, had to change hoses and functions, but it works!! still lacking some saw speed but we know that is the pump. got the functions to work and noticed we were putting pressure thru the return side. switched hoses again then the saw ran backwards but still went down kiko thank you turned the motor 180 and it works good enough until we rebuild the pump. Thank you all for the help!!!!!