Employee dress/appearance code

[Frickman]

I've got a problem here at the mill and need all you folks advice. I've noticed over the past ten years or so a steady decline in the quality of personal appearance in employees and applicants. It seems that the majority of under 30 applicants have assorted body hardware, tattoos, funny looking hair and sloppy clothes. We're just a sawmill and logging outfit, so we don't require a three piece suit and wing-tip shoes to come to work. We do though deal alot though with folks who stop at the mill, landowners, and assorted businesses in town. I might be from the old school, but I think that an employee's actions and appearance reflect on the employer and his/her business, either favorably or not.

I was wondering if we should institute a dress code? Now I'm not talking about safety things, like PPE, loose clothes, etc. I mean just a general employee appearance handbook. What are the legalities of such a thing? And do any of you have experience with this issue? I'm trying not to have alot of rules and regulations like a big corporation. That would bog down my business. It's getting to the point now though where I may have to go that route.

[jjmk98k]

While I have been wearing the Uniform of the USAF for the last 12+ years, I have had no choice in that matter.


BUT.....

I have seen contractors on base doing work and seen the grubbyness you speak of. Even when I gou out for lunch guys are dressed in rags, scrubby shaggy heair and beards that are unkept. I guess thats the new "style" of presenting a "working mans image"

When my father went to work in the steel mill, he wore jeans and a collared shirt, changed into his work clothes at the plant, always left work looking as clean as when he got there. He always took pride in looking clean cut and decent.

I think todays kids just have a different opinion of whats "decent". I know when I look for work to get done to the house, I kinda "weed out" workers/ contractors that look crummy, drive crummy vehicles and so on. I know it really should not have a impact of how the guy works....but if it looks like poop, smells like poop.... might do poopy work.....

initating a dress and apperance code is not a bad idea, but not too sure how it's handled in this "politically correct" world we life in.

I for one, spend my money in places where the employees, as well as the facilites are clean, neat and orderly.

I know this is not much help to your direct question, just wanted to say how I looked at things....

[beenthere]

When I go into a store, and a clerk is at the cash register with nose 'plugs', eyebrow studs, lips pierced, or tongue jewelry - I just leave my things and walk out. I shudder to see what some want to do to their body, and I just leave. I shop elsewhere, and likely don't come back.

I suspect in this day and age, it's tough to make a change to a dress code or policy that wasn't in effect when these people were hired. Don't have a suggestion as to what to do. I look at as it is your business, and your decision should be the rule. If they want to start up their own business and 'punch' themselves full of holes, that is their choice.

It is sad, IMO

[Jeff]

I don't like it. Not at All. But what are you going to do? My Son has both ears pierced. I think he's stupid, but then again if you compare him to 90% of his generation, hes pretty tame. No eye brow holes or tongue piercings. As far as I know he has no tattoos. He's 22 years old.


Stacy Moved out when she was 18. Had a job then 2 jobs, now she is working 3 different part time Jobs and in her second year of college, all paid for by herself.  Not sure at what point it was, but soon after moving out she got two tattoos. Something on here shoulder and one of those big popular ones that looks like your lace undies are creeping out the back of yer Jeans. She is doing well. Calls home regular and visits on what I would consider an appropriate basis considering her schedule. The tattoos? I hate them. I think its shameful to disfigure your body and thats what I have always taught them.  What are you going to do?  I figure the kids are pretty normal compared to all the others I have scene.  I tried my best but won't call myself a failure because I don't consider either of them failures.  They live in a different time.  My Dad's time demanded a butch or a Princeton haircut.  That worked with me until I got into high school.  My time had hair to the shoulders and I did.  Dad Hated it. He hated that I smoked. He hated that I drank, he hated that I would not go to church after I left home. I know that Dad never once considered me a failure for not conforming to what was a very strict household, that of a minister's.  I was not at all what he thought I should be but never ever denied my right to be what I thought I should be.

I won't walk out on a clerk who does not look quite right. Now if they treat me wrong thats a different story. I really feel that walking off on someone that looks different would be like them refusing to deal with me for the same reason. 

Today during Physical Therapy there was a young gal in there that had a pierced lower lip with a jagged looking stud protruding out of it. She started huffing as she was working out. She looked at me and I grinned and said, Hey, don't point that thing at me when yer puffing like that.  She grinned back and said "don't worry, you got plenty of padding to protect you" . We finished up by talking about why we were each there and other things. The conversation made for what is usually a grueling workout into a tolerable day that passed much quicker. I gotta go again tomorrow, I wonder if she will be there?

[rebocardo]

I can only speak from personal experience, but, I was working at Ryder until 2001 and if you came in sporting 5 oclock shadow or facial hair or looked sloppy (never happened with me - others) the shop foreman had every right and would send you out to either fix yourself or send you home. I think the quote "freakin moron" applied to someone that it had to be mentioned to even once because appearance and conduct is drilled into you before you are even hired.

At my kid's private school noone, including adults, is expected to be seen with shirt tails out or wearing indecent or rude clothing or jewerly on their person. Mommy wearing a tongue stud is not going to be warmly welcomed. Kids are not allowed to have pierced anything and the kids wear uniforms.

Myself, I might dress with the shirt outside my pants while working cutting, but, for inside work or estimating I try to dress for success with a uniform or while working on customer's cars. I get a lot of my unform stuff from www.wearguard.com.

[Cedarman]

Read in the paper that all those mouth piercings cause gum decay among other problems.  That label on cig packages made everyone quite smoking too.  My gut feeling is that kids tend to do what the kids they hang around with do.  Once kids get into their mid 20's they start to revert back to their parents way of doing things.  The bad thing about tatoos are that they are rather permanent, holes usually seal up and disappear.

First impressions make a difference.  I want my yardman, who is the one who meets our customers and loggers to be friendly. He has work clothes on, but shirt is tucked in.  Looks decent. No piercings. I have had a few people with piercings other than ears and they tended to be against authority.  Didn't last long.  Have a mill manager in Alabama that has always had a stud in the ear. Been there going on 7 years.  Took over when my son moved to Ok.  

It is your mill and you can set the dress code. You can tell them how they will greet customers. Have a meeting and express your concerns and ask for ideas on how to get the results you want.  Guide them in the direction you want them to go.  Lead them, don't push them.  The only reason they work for you is for them to make you money, which you share with them by buying their time.  Once you get your dress and conduct code established and in writing, then let applicants know what you expect.  If they rebel, let them rebel at some other establishment.

One of the most memorable applicants was the guy that walked up through the yard with no shirt, no shoes or socks, long greasy hair and said " Hey man, I need a job".

[Ianab]

I dont think you can make rules regarding good taste  :

What about providing company jackets and / or shirts with your logo printed on them. Free advertising (as long as the guy isn't tooo scruffy  ;) ) and the guys see they are getting something free so may be more receptive to it?

Ian

PS Lil has both piercings and a tat, and a university degree, and is a preschool teacher, so they aren't all deadbeats  ;)

[LIL]

Its true - I have however with all my jobs asked about piercings before the inital interview.  It has never been an issue - and the stud I wear in my nose is so small you only really notice when the light or sun catches it.

I have had my nose pierced since my twenties - and am kinda attached to it - however if it was my piercing or a job I would know which I would be choosing.

As for the "tat" that was a pure rebellion thing against my parents.  I had wanted one forever since I was about 10 and told I wasnt allowed and when I turned 18 I did it.  Havent regretted it since.  Did have it put on my shoulder however so I can cover it up or show it off as I see fit.  More covered up these days than before. :D  But the main reason for having it put there - is when its "and I say this very loosely and mean no offence what so ever to anyone"  "old and wrinkly - I wont have to look at it!!!! ;D

[asy]

I think the Company Shirts are a great idea.

Have a look at the thread where Arkansawyer broke his leg...  If you look in the photos in the first post, he's there with a red T-Shirt on that says "ARKANSAWYER" .

No mistaking that he works there!

I have two suggestions for supplying them:

1: You supply two shirts for every employee. They pay for them, but once they have been in your employment for more than three months (or so) you reimburse them. That way you aren't out of pocket for new employees until you have tested them, and the employees can't complain. If they leave, they have to hand the shirts back. If they are worn out, well, then they were there for a while!.

2: You set a standard of (for example) a Navy Blue T-shirt or Polo shirt. Then you organise with a local uniform embroidery place to embroider the shirts for your employees. They buy their shirts to fit, and they can buy what they are comfortable in so long as it conforms to your colour and style code. You should be able to organise with the embroiderer to ensure they don't embroider anything that's outside your criteria, and they will be able to set any limits you want on number of shirts per employee. My friend does his uniforms that way, and it works really well.

One of the most memorable applicants was the guy that walked up through the yard with no shirt, no shoes or socks, long greasy hair and said " Hey man, I need a job".

One would be safe to assume he still needs a job?

Oh, and, I agree with you Jeff...  I don't understand Tattoos either...   Especially the big obvious ones that aren't coverable...

asy :D

[etat]

Well, roofing you get nasty, dirty, and sweaty, specially in the summertime.  You don't have to come to work that way though.  I'm pretty picky about who I hire but actually don't pay too much attention to most tattoos, although I don't have and will never have tattoos or piercings myself.  The occasional earring I'll over look if it's small and tasteful but Tounge rings are out!  A foreman of mine once told me his girlfriend had about talked him into getting a tongue ring and I told him if he did to get another job, and I meant it. I do furnish T shirts and caps with Tate Roofing Logo and don't charge anything for them  although I don't always necessarily require my guys to wear them.  Most of the time they do. Sometimes I do require em, depends on the job and where it is.  That helps a  lot keeping things semi professional looking and helps separate us from jack leg roofers that work with just a ladder, a hammer, and a old pickup truck..

And Jeff, I agree with every dang thing you said, and I used to have long hair too!

[Furby]

Where I used to work the dress policy was nothing against the PPE rules and nothing that would be offensive. That could be a pretty fine line when working with lots of different people, but problems were rare.
Office personal had a dress code to be followed.

Lots of people consider my hair and facial hair to be unkept, and my cars to be rolling scrap yards. The way I look and the car I drive have no bearing as to the kind of work I do, but people love to assume things. I can't afford a better car, what am I too do? Are ya going to increase my pay so I can drive around in a new `vet or hummer? When you are talking about labor type jobs, it's about the work and not about the way someone looks.

[asy]

When you are talking about labor type jobs, it's about the work and not about the way someone looks.

Hmmm...

Not sure I agree totally.

Depends, if people are in the 'public eye' and you are trying to attract clients, then I think it does matter how people look simply, and only, because it can alter the perception of people who may be coming to spend money with you.

If you are out of the public eye, and you are working, then it matters far less.

But when your employment is directly reliant upon people walking through the door, then you need to maintain a public persona that appeals to the greatest possible percentage of your intended clientele.

asy :D

[Furby]

I see that differently when it is labor.
If ya talking about the crew chief, manager, head honcho, whatever, you are right.
Labor does just that, LABOR. They may be seen by the public, but their work is what they "should" be judged by.
The person dealing with the public I can see needing a little better edge.

I'm thinking in for instance store workers who are dealing with people, yes I agree with you. But around here most stores have a dress code for those people and the backroom workers don't have to follow the dress code.

[etat]

I had to think about this a while before I got up the nerve to post it.   And I'm a person who has sold many many a job after working all day and getting tar and shingle grit and sweaty after a hard day's work.  I can at least put on a clean shirt and explain how hard I've been working when meeting someone new.

Great post ASY, especially the way you summed it all up.  WHAT you said, is exactly WHAT I was thinking.  It may not be fair but the best laborer roofer in the world if he was working for me would never move up to a foremans position if he wasn't able to look the part.

it does matter how people look simply, and only, because it can alter the perception of people

FAIR, maybe not.  But highly important to being successful when dealing with the public.

[Andy Mack]

How many times do we have to select a tradesperson / service provider / retail shop etc purely on presentation.  All the time.  I don't go into a Fish n Chip shop if it looks untidy.  I picked my auto mechanic largely based on how tidy his workshop is (and he dresses neat and professional uniform).  Been using him for years now and won't go anywhere else.

(mind you, Asy says I'm the daggiest one around)      ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


However, evidence of worksmanship and personal reference is the best selection critea.  Its even better when it comes with good presentation.

[LIL]

I almost had to go to work with out my stud!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spending some quality time with Bubbles and something SMALL and SHINY caught her attention


(Bubbles sitting on my shoulder being nosey)


(This is what Bubbles managed to pick out of my nose)

Ian had to fight her for it - to get it back.  After telling her off she dropped it in my hair! ;D

Co-incendentally - this is the size stud I wear all the time to work.  When I first had my nose pierced I wore an ear ring bigger than the size of the stud you can see in my ear :.  I have also gone for the ring through the hole look - not good  :-\/.  These days I perfer the nearly indiscreet stud - although I do have a neat spike that sticks out of my nose that I wear for fun!!!! :D

[TN_man]

We may not be able to legislate good taste but we can descency.
I was bowling the other night with my son and these two teenagers were bowling right next to us. The one kid had a belt on just to hold his pants up just below his cheeks. His boxer shorts were completely revealed as they were half way sucked up into his cheeks. He gets up there and has to waddle down the lane to bowl and then edge his pants back up after bending over to roll the ball. If he just knew how ridiculous he looked, all the while he was probably thinking he was so cool. :
As the employer, I think you can set the standard of what image you want your employees to maintain. But I do think the free T-shirts would be a good idea.

[Fraxinus]

Like one of my friends over on the tractor boards said only yesterday,
"This country is going to Helen A. Handbasket" and that's just another symptom.
When you get some good young help that has some actual moral values and a modicum of taste, reward them well because those kinds are getting awfully hard to find.

[asy]

This thread reminded me of a story...

Many years ago, way back in the '80's...  ;)

A friend of the family's son (lets call him John) had grown his hair really REALLY long for the specific purpose of having it cut and leaving a long rat's tail plait.

He went and had it cut, then went out for a night on the town. Got home really late and tumbled into bed.

Next morning his mum went in to wake him to go to work.

When John woke up she was standing there, and she said "Gee I hope you didn't PAY for that hair cut, the barber missed a bit. I've fixed it for you". She then held up her scissors, and his pride and joy foot long rats tail.

Now, knowing his mum, I don't, for a minute, believe she was so naive as to not know it was there on purpose, I also don't, for a minute, believe that she didn't cut it off on purpose!

lol

asy :D

[sigidi]

took me so long to read others have posted already!!

I reckon you sit down and ask the chaps about ways to become more like a team  - they will probably jump at the chance to use your $'s to get some work gear.

I know when I have worked labour, it's as hard on ya clothes as it is on you, so if the boss ahs some ideas about getting in some kind of "uniform" (used loosely - ya don't want the folkes thinking they are having to be in the Army or nothing - not that there's anything wrong with that) so I don't have to wreck my own clothes then I'd jump at it and then ya have a sense of pride in the "team" you work for

End of the day it's your business - just struggling with this idea says you aren't a Hard A#$e but just want your business to be a bit sharper than the average and if the guys don't want to come on-board then you can put up with it and change th enew blokes in the door or you can flick em

[Patty]

Those who judge others by their appearance miss out on so much. I imagine their life is pretty lonely and pathetic.  :-\ However many do go through life in just that way, and all to often people are misjudged. I am a very hard working middle aged woman who will often go to the store dressed in whatever I happen to be wearing....bibs, dirty jeans, messy hair; and even though my startling beauty shines through  ;D I am often treated poorly by those who make poor judgements. I don't care about those folks, I feel they have a very narrow outlook on life; I know who I am and what I am, and I can hold my head up with pride.

HOWEVER, with that being said; if you own your own business, you most certainly can have a say so in the appearance of your employees. I think the easiest approach to the problem is to purchase the T-Shirt, or polo shirt, put your logo on it, and require that it be worn.

[sawguy21]

My employer says don't come in wearing anything you would be ashamed of in front of your grandmother. There is a written dress code (neat in appearance, no hats for front end staff etc) but they seem scared to enforce it. They suggested polo shirts once but a couple of employees balked so they backed off. One was a larger woman with a prominent tatoo on her left breast. Hardly appropriate.
I am no prude but when I enter a business and see the employees with the pants halfway down their butt and ball cap on backward, particularily in a retail environment, I shudder.  I assume they have little pride in themselves,  the job they do and are more interested in amusing their equally immature friends.

[OneWithWood]

It is not hard or threatening to take a common sense approach to appearance and safety.  I have had very short hair, very long hair and every length in between.  I always kept it clean and neat, be it brushed out or hanging down my back in a braid.  When I worked around moving equipment I cut my hair or wore a hat and tucked the hair in my jacket.  Keeping my head and face intact always meant more than being fashionable.  I have never worn jewelry because I have met too many folks with missing fingers due to rings getting caught and fingers torn off.
In a sawmill environment I think it would be a logical and appreciated thing to set the employees down and talk about the safety issues of dangling hair and jewelry.  I think it is a nice gesture to provide work clothes, especially if you are paying a relatively low wage.  Employees appreciate it when they do not have to waste their own threads in a somewhat dirty environment and you get to choose the look.

[Paschale]

A friend of the family's son (lets call him John) had grown his hair really REALLY long for the specific purpose of having it cut and leaving a long rat's tail plait.

Over on this side of the pond, we call that thing a mullet.  :D :D :D 

[MemphisLogger]

When my cousin first came out to work with me, he had a tongue ring--made him talk funny and and always made an annoying clicking sound.

We always made fun of him for it but he wouldn't take it out until the dentist told him it was wearing a groove in the back of his front teeth.  ???

He also wore those below the cheek pants and slip on tennis shoes.

The slip on shoes were the first to go when he rolled a log on to one and had to walk in the mud until we got it off.  :D

The below the cheek pants finally came off (literally) when he was showing off for a female customer turning a 30" walnut on the mill. He was fully extended on the cant hook and holding it when his pants fell down. I acted like the claw turner wasn't working and made him stand there like that for a good minute while the woman snapped some pics. I hear the pictures made it all around town in the (f)email circuit  :D ;D

My wife hits the thrift stores regularly to find us cheap Polos, Izods and Dickies so we look good when we're sawing. If it's cold, we both wear our plaid flannels to look more like lumberjacks  ;)

As for hair, the only time mine's been short is when I ran for County Commission. The rest of the time it's in a neat ponytail.

I don't have any problem with disceet/artful tattoos but I've seen a couple on certain parts of the female anatomy that made me wonder how they'd look after time/gravity takes it's course  :-\