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Sawmills in Michigan that purchase from landowner

Started by Jmer817, February 23, 2015, 06:00:19 PM

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Jmer817

Purchased 25 acres (20 acres woods / 5 tillable) a couple years ago and completed building my new home this year. Just joined this forum and am looking forward to improving my tree knowledge. I Have a few plans for the property and looking forward to them. My land was harvested a couple years ago for some of the larger walnut and other valuable species prior to me purchasing. I do have approx. 50 trees (combination of hickory, black oak, Red maple) equaling approx. 10,000 bf that I would like to cut to improve the health of my other trees. I'm considering getting some quotes from local loggers, but am hesitant. I'm kind of a "do it yourself" type guy, and I just don't like the idea of heavy equipment tearing up my woods, and someone else making money off of my property (middleman). I'm curious if there are many sawmills in Michigan (small or big) that would consider purchasing a few logs at a time directly from the landowner. I would deliver on a 10K gvw equipment trailer. I would log at my leisure and would hope to create a good relationship with a fair and loyal buyer. Any ideas, thoughts??

thechknhwk


Jeff

There are, but you probably need to get to know them. One thing going for you is that if you are harvesting your own timber, by yourself, on your own land, and delivering it, you won't need a comp certificate to sell most insured mills. If you have any outside contractors mixed in the equation, they will need to provide a comp certificate to the mill, as any mill that is a legitimate buyer is insured, and their carriers do not allow them to buy uninsured wood, but are exempt from that if the first criteria here is met. Your own wood, and you doing the harvest.

There are a lot of amish mills as you head into central Michigan as well, and they are a whole other ball game.  If you have hickory, I'm guessing you are no farther north than Mt. Pleasant but most likely in the lower third of the lower peninsula.
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Jmer817


beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

QuoteI'm curious if there are many sawmills in Michigan (small or big) that would consider purchasing a few logs at a time directly from the landowner. I would deliver on a 10K gvw equipment trailer. I would log at my leisure and would hope to create a good relationship with a fair and loyal buyer. Any ideas, thoughts??

I'd suggest too that you visit some local mills. Ask if they would consider buying logs delivered on your trailer.
Do you know, or have a pretty good idea what a good sawlog would look like? Straight, clear surfaces (no knot indicators, or very few), no large limbs cut off, no limb wood, centered pith, no rot, no holes, etc. These are a few characters that make up a good sawlog.
If you know a good sawlog, then put together a trailer load of sawlogs, and go back to any mills that gave you at least a positive nod. I'd suggest applying anchorseal to the fresh cut ends of the logs as you buck them to length (that length will be important to what the mill will want to buy too). Know how many bdft log scale that you have, and an idea what you want for your wood, so you will know how to interpret the offer a mill will make when you show up.
I'd think a local mill would have a hard time turning down a good load of good sawlogs, and will at least give you the time of day and hopefully a good offer. Build from there, as to whether this is the way you want to proceed further.

For kicks, last fall I had a logger come look at some trees that I wanted him to skid out of my woods. There were about 25 trees from 12 - 20" dbh. I just wanted them skid out. He wasn't too positive as he said it would cost him money to hire a truck to deliver his skidder and to retrieve it when done. That cost was $250 a trip. Then he said he likes to make $500 a day for his skidder work, and thought a day may do the job, or for sure a day and a half. We both agreed that $1000 - $1250 was a bit high for this to make sense. He had his eye on some walnut trees that might pay for the job, but felt it was about 10 yrs too soon to cut them now. I agreed.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ReinkeFandS

Jmer,
look me up in about 3-5 years. My ultimate goal is eventually have a team of drafts to be able to provide skidding services along with custom milling and even selective cut logging. And since I'm in Charlotte would be close enough for a day trip there
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chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: beenthere on February 23, 2015, 08:09:20 PM
I'd suggest applying anchorseal to the fresh cut ends of the logs

When I was buying logs there was nothing I hated more than buying end coated logs. Sealed ends on logs hide a lot of things like rot, heart size, birds eye, curl, hardware stain, etc.

beenthere

You including anchorseal as hiding those things?

I suggested sealing because it sounds like it will be a spell to accumulate a trailer load of good sawlogs.
Maybe cut a bit long, seal, and then make fresh cuts before making the sales trip to the mill.

I understand anchorseal to be some transparent. Do you see it differently?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jmouton

jmer   we  would be interested  in buying logs from you ,,,  we are near  detroit metro airport ,,  new boston to be specific ,     pm  me  if you want to talk,,


                                                                                                                thanks  jim
lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

Jeff

I worked in a Michigan sawmill for 25 years and never did we end seal a log and never did we buy a log with end seal on them.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

  End sealing is what the log buyer may do after he buys the logs.  Usually only high dollar veneer logs are sealed and then only in the hottest weather.  That's been my experience anyway  ;) :)
  Inquire about the insurance requirement.  Mills up here require everyone to have proof of comp. coverage before they'll buy.  It used to be logs you cut from your own land yourself didn't require coverage but someone apparently screwed that up for everyone else.  I got away with it for years cutting on family ground but was forced to get coverage to continue selling logs before I was done with the family farms.   
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Fedge

I'm not trying to hijack a thread here, but when you guys talk about a "comp certificate" are you talking about workers compensation insurance or are you talking about something else? Thanks!

Geoff
A smart man knows a lot, a smarter man knows what he doesn't know.

g_man

We have what is called 'log yards' or accumulating yards around these parts. Quite a few too but they seem to come and go.  They buy one log or truck loads of logs from most anyone who can deliver logs cut to their spec. Some even take SW pulp. Here most of what they buy seems to get shipped to Canada. They have a log spec sheet just like a mill but pay a little less. But for a little guy like me it makes shipping small loads a short distance a better deal than hauling to a distant mill for a better price.
I don't know your area but maybe you have log yards out there too.

gg

Corley5

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Jeff

Greg, it didn't change for you because you had employee's?  Admittedly I've been out of the loop for a few years now.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

  No it changed before that when it was just Dad and myself.  At first I had to sign a statement that the products were coming from family controlled property and give the description of the property.  Then they needed proof of insurance, both the trucking firm owner who buys from me and the mills.  It's their insurance companies that require it.  They don't want anyone to claim an injury and attempt to hold the buyers liable by claiming that by buying from them the sellers were employees.  Someone must have had a successful lawsuit of the sort.  My insurance agent sells "dumby" comp policies to landowners to meet the requirements.  It's a bare bones policy that gets the job done. 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

thecfarm

Jmer817,welcome to the forum. I use to do what you want to do. But I had a truck come in and take the wood to whatever mill I wanted. They want it freshly cut too. Can't cut for a week then get back at it in 2 weeks and take another week off.
I know things are diffeant in MI,but I had to have an Intent to Harvest Number from the state of Maine.Than at the end of the year I had to fill out a form stating how much I had havested. It was a simple form to fill out.
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Jeff

Okay, I went to one of my sources and called up MATSIF.   They said that it is their policy that if a land owner is cutting on their titled land, forest or farm, and they are the producer and the hauler, they allow the mill to buy the logs. There is a landowner seller form the mill needs to fill out, but as I stated, at least with MATSIF, "Michigan Association Self Insurance Fund" they allow their members to buy those logs.

I brought up Greg's comment about a father and son, brothers, whatever, working together. She says that actually changes things. That brings up a potential employee situation, even though they are related, that most likely it would then not be allowed.

It all boils down to who the buyer is and what company they have for comp. MATSIF is arguably the largest forest products  dedicated in Michigan
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Corley5

We got away with it for several years anyway  ;D :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

luvmexfood

The idea of insurance companies controlling who a log yard or mill buys from is a little frighting. Brings to mind the old saying less said better off you are. If hauling yourself or from your own family property my response would always be: Cut them myself,skidded myself and here they are. You want to buy them or not.

Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

Jeff

Its a standard practice and has been for many many years. The mill's insurance company requires someone to have insurance or the mill and its carriers will be within the legal food chain if something happens to the uninsured worked in the woods. It is protection for the mill. Sometimes it is the wood hauler that has the comp and the logs come in under his umbrella

You buy the logs. The logger is hurt. No insurance between the Logger and you. You have insurance. The logger would not have been hurt if he had not been out getting logs for you. Oh! We will sue YOU!

The less said the better is not an option if you are a large mill. You get caught buying uninsured logs and you become uninsured.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

luvmexfood

Certainly not trying to argue with anything said but this is scary in my mind. If a mill won't buy logs from an individual that he harvests by himself then what is next.

If you grow a patch of pumpkins to sell will you not be able to sell them to a retailer because you don't have comp insurance on yourself. The list could go on and on.

Whats next? Went into a local convience store the other day to purchase some Mike's Hard Lemonade. Before they would sell them to me had to hand them my driver's liscense for them to scan through a terminal. Not going back there.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

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