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Logosol PH260 Planer Moulder feedback request

Started by Island_Milling, April 28, 2004, 11:19:28 PM

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Island_Milling

Just looking for feedback from someone that is running a PH260 in a commercial application. I am looking at doing flooring and mouldings with it and would like some comments on how it is. Also if you have any photos of it in action that would be great as well.
If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

LeeB

Don't know anything about it pesonally but the latest issue of SAwmill and Woodlot has an article about it. LeeB
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Island_Milling

Thanks Lee, any way of you copying that for me as I have no way of getting that magazine?
If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

Kedwards

Good piece of equipment!  I have been running v channel 5/8" tongue in groove cedar liner and it has done a superb job. The equipment comes in 2 models PH260 and PH261 the 260 is 3 phase and will require a 25amp rotary convertor if you don't have 3 phase. The Ph261 is standard 60 amp tap directly wired in and this is what I have. I have 3 phase running 30 yards from my house, but it would cost me 2000 to have it hooked up and the charge a business rate which is higher and you pay a lot more if you dont use it much. The power is not noticeable for what I do which are small runs of 1000 LF at a time. The setup takes about 20 minutes, There is a place that now makes carbide knives in arizona  that are cheaper than the logosol carbide knives. It takes some time to gt comfortable with the equipment, but once you do its easy to make crown and flooring.
His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like socks in a dryer without cling free

FeltzE

I've got a 261, its a nice machine and does what they say. I stopped by a company in AL that does alot of moulding at a commercial scale. They sharpen the knives in the knife holders then reinsert the knife and holder in the machine. By stopping the machine mid-cut you have a board that is partially milled. You can then adjust the fences and knives to it making subsequent setups faster.


I havn't tried it yet...

Eric

Island_Milling

I cannot get 3 phase here so its either the rotary phase converter or the 261. What about the chip extractor they sell? It runs off 3 phase as well so it may be a good idea to go with a phase converter as well unless you guys have another idea.

Love the forum and all the info it has to offer. Keep up the good work!!
If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

oakiemac

Hey Island Milling,

Where is Denman Island? I spent some time, along time ago, on Vancouver Island. I loved that place. Want to go back and stay forever! ;D
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Island_Milling

If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

Kedwards

The chip extractor is a tad over priced for what you get. I would go for a 3-4 port vac system that 3-4 hp and 2100-2400 CFM under load. It needs to be direct drive and not belt driven to pull the HUGE amount of chips it produces. You WILL fill a twin 45 gallon trashbag dust collector up in 5-10 minutes!!! A cyclone system (check the bankruptcy sales) would be ideal so you couuld just dump into a bin or trailer. You dont want to have to continually dump the bags, mini cyclone or whatever..believe me. ::)
His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like socks in a dryer without cling free

mur

Kyle is right.  You need a bit of time to become comfortable with the machine.  I have a 260  with the chip extractor on a phase converter.  Am very happy with the finish.  And set-up is OK once you've done it a few times.  A good machine but does have some points that are a bit weak - the manual!
Don't dream it, be it.

FeltzE

I've got 2  2hp blowers hooked up to my 261 one blowing chips straight outside the other into a bag, (I've got to change that) the bag fills up in only a few minutes. :-/ One blower catches the top cut and a side cut, the other the bottom and other side. They work fairly well on keeping the machine clean.

I have a 15 hp 3 ph blower setting in the shed, I don't have 3 ph, or a converter. (Anyone have one cheap?)  :(

Of course if I hooked it up then I'd have to buy new pipe and stuff..... another cpl thousand dollars in connectors pipe, and accessories. :o



Eric

Island_Milling

It would seem that for all the trouble of trying to get bits and pieces together and try to figure out how to set up a decent chip extractor the one the Logosol sells is (after further research) a good price. I would think that one would want to do it right if they were going into this for more than the back yard hobbiest. I looked at several other systems and they are all in the same price range.

I thank you all who gave me input on the 260. Keep it coming in ;D

Any other advice you guys/girls can come up with would be useful as well.  
If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

Kedwards

I use a grizzly 3HP single phase 2300 CFM output. and it does fine. The cost was 505.00 including shipping. The tubes and connectors were all under 100.00. The logosol 3 phase is 12-1400 US PLUS you better have 3 phase.The rotary phase converter will cost you 890 for a refurb to 2000 for a new one.3 phase is expensive to have if you are not running it constantly not including running the line to the shop from the pole. It costs here 1500 per segment to run the line with a minimum charge.
His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like socks in a dryer without cling free

Island_Milling

Thanks KEdwards for the Grizzly tip. Looks as though I can go that way. There is a dealer in Bellingham so I can just skip across the border and pick one up.

Is the 260 different from the 261 other than being single phase and not 3 phase? The 3 phase has 4 hp motors, is the 261 the same??

If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

Kedwards

The 261 is is single phase and has the same number of motors. 3 phase has a lot more " hrumph"and the motors will last almost indefinately. I don't notice the difference because I dont run deep crown profiles. If all you are doing is running T&G flooring beadlock and wainscotting all at 3/4 to 1/2 you should be fine. Also for knives there is a new manufacturer that makes them in carbide for less than logosol. Try woodline arizona @ http://www.woodbits.com HSS(high speed stainless) cuts ok but you might want to think carbide  for long runs.
His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like socks in a dryer without cling free

Island_Milling

Thanks Kedwards.

My next project is to design the building to house this monster complete with a kiln that is attached so that I can have a small assembly line, green wood in one side and finished product out the other.

I am using a D&L Double cut 30TD to mill all my lumber and man is it a great machine.
If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

mur

What type of kiln are you thinking of building?  I put in an outdoor boiler type that burns a lot of my scraps etc.  Great way to reduce the waste piles and get almost free heat to dry more wood.  A good cycle actually.  Plan a storage area also for finished products.  People can't always pick up their wood as quick as it is run so it is nice to have a holding area.  Running 1x4 aspen T&G v-joint today.  The PH 260 performed well.  Keep track of your spacer shims ( a digital caliper is a great help) once you get the set-up right.  I use a dedicated molder book.  Makes for easy, quick change-overs in the future when you run the pattern again.  
Don't dream it, be it.

Island_Milling

I was looking into a DH kiln from Nyle. What are you running for a boiler for your kiln? We need to meet up some day to compare notes.

If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

mur

Hi Island:
I got my stove from Frank Kramer - Kootenay Outdoor Boiler near Nelson.  He came late Friday afternoon and we had fire in the boiler by Sunday at 2:00 PM.  Pumps, back-ups, filters etc.  Superb job.  The stove is a Global Hydronics - capable of 650,000 BTU on a steady output.  Made in Manitoba.  www.GlobalHydronics.com  I can drop you my phone number and we can have a chat.  I love exchanging info.  That's a great part of this business.  Do you know Tobe and Mikell Callahan?  They were and still are neighbours up here.  Take care.
Don't dream it, be it.

FeltzE

Has anyone got a good method of keeping track of the knives? ie. part number and use? I have a drawer full of the knives in the original packing to keep  them together.


The 260 is 3 phase with 4 hp motors, the 261 is single phase with 3 hp motors. I've run 6 inch SYP T&G v groove and 4 inch oak T&G flooring with good results. I also run all my sticker stock thru for 2 sided planing.


Eric

Mike_Doolittle

Hey thanks for all of the tips for the ph260!  I have one on the way as we speak and am looking forward to it.  I have been a woodmizer owner for a few years and am branching out into the new world of woodmizers DM kiln and the ph260.  my first load in the kiln is white oak and so far so good...I'm impressed.  Most of the load is a customers wood but some is mine so I have some to learn on.  Maybe I will make flooring, so any tips would be super.
Thanks much Mike

Kedwards

I am curious what everyone is getting in terms of linear feet out of the top and bottom knives before they need sharpening. Also besides woodline arizona and hotknife are there any other good knife guys for Logosol? Who has the best prices? ???
His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like socks in a dryer without cling free

mur

Hi Kyle:
I am starting a run on next Tuesday with new knives, top and bottom.  I am going to start keeping track of the linear feet.  I'll let you know.  
Don't dream it, be it.

Norwiscutter

Just wanted to bring this thread to the front again as I am looking at possibly picking up a 260 this summer/fall.  Can anyone that has one elaborate more on realistic production expectations. My plans include runs of 3-4 thousand linial ft. of 6-8 inch half log siding, crown moldings, 2-4 thousand ft. t&g flooring and paneling, as well as some other typical molding applications.  Will this machine be up to such runs, or is it more centered around runs in the 500- 1000 ft. Neighborhood? Like everything, I am sure it is another good, better, best scenerio, but I guess what I am wondering is weather your overall impressions of the machine are good, bad, indiferent, etc. Do you think the 12-14 thousand that the machine will cost(after cutterheads, electrical, etc.) is worth the investment?  I am kinda skeptical of it's light overall weight.( 850-900 lbs. I believe) Like a heave duty planer, I kind of expect a piece of equipment like this to weigh over 1500 lbs., but then again, I am use to using some older equipment that weighs more than modern stuff. My intended use is not that of full time molding. Rather, my goal is to have a piece of equipment that will support my business in the following ways.

1) allow an additional service that I can offer my portable milling customers ( I cut around 15-20 thousand bf for others per year)

2) allow for the use of my own materials for construction of spec homes( 1-2 per year) with the intent of enabling an increase in profit margin

3)possibly offering molding services in limmited quantities. (10-15 thousand bf/ year max)


Realistically, I can foresee running 20-25 thousand bf through
the molder in a given year.  These numbers actually probably border on the high end of the spectrum, but would rather estimate high than low.  As most of my runs would be T&G in some form, what could I expect in production for 4/4 flooring runs on a hourly or dayly basis? Would 150-200 linial ft per hour be out of the question for s4s with t&g side profiles?

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

FeltzE

Norwis,

I've got a 261 (single phase model) I think your looking at the right machine. I havn't cut large runs with my machine but runnig s4s pine 2x4's or oak s4s t&g we ran around 20 ft / min with good results. Considering this machine dosn't have large motors and has only 4 cutter heads you need to keep your blank stock fairly uniform in thickness and width to keep the logosol running at peak speeds.

Eric

Norwiscutter

Eric, thanks for your prompt response, as always, you come through with solid information.

Any experience I have had with molders is either the 13 inch P/M combo's ( the 1000.00 dollar models) or the 7 head extreama at the local cedar plant.  Neither of which fit my budget or intentions.  Hopefully this machine will suit my needs.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Island_Milling

The guy to talk to is Mur on this site. I had a good chat with him this spring and he is full of info as he is running it at full production. The big question is the blade life and how many feet you get out of that. I think from what I have heard the Logosol 260/261 is a great machine. A bit quirky to start off with but once you are onto it its a scream. It is supposed to put out some of the best finishes around.

 8)
If your not happy with it, tell me, if you are tell everyone else!

Island Milling and Woodproducts

Dugsaws

Just to pick your brains a little is there any used Logosols out there and how much are they worth, reason I am asking a friend of mine knows where there was one bought used and not set up, just trying to get an idea what it would be worth



 Thanks
  Dugsaws
Doug

mur

Hi Dugsaws:

Can't comment too much on a used machine.  Contact Charlie Griffith or his wife Kathleen, the US Logosol dealers.  Excellent people.  They might have a lead on a used one.  
Eric is right about uniform blank sizes.  And keep your wood really clean.  I just finished a run of about 1500 board feet of aspen 1x6 and 650 lineal feet of spruce/pine 1x4 strapping S4S.  Am ready for a knife change after doing those two runs.  Buyer of the strapping loved the finish.  Aspen buyer will be heard from by this time next week.  I think they'll be happy too.  The aspen is going to a local chain building supply.
Don't dream it, be it.

Norwiscutter

So around 1500 BF, give er take would be the expected range for blade life?
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

mur

My last run early in the week  was on 6" log cabin siding.  I got 4500 lineal feet plus a few more in culls on the knives.  (cracked boards, knots blowing out.)  They need sharpening now.  Clean wood is mandatory.  Started a run of lodgepole pine 1x6" v-joint today with resharpened knives.  Got 1000' lineal feet done - lotsa interruptions by people - but wood is still shiny out of the molder.  Two friends commented they had not ever seen wood that well finished.  You can almost see your face in the shine.  I'll let you know how many feet I get on these knives with this run.   But I suspect I'm averaging 3,000 lineal and better per knife change.  Feed speed and dry wood seem to be in play here too.  I'm learning!!
Don't dream it, be it.

FeltzE

I ran 1200 lf of KD #2 SYP 2x8 thru for T&G in 90 minutes this afternoon.   The blades are holding up fine even in the knots, I did notice one lead slug in the board, neatly cut into  the T,  no tear out running just over 20 fpm with out any helpers to stack or pull lumber.

That didn't include set up time. I probably spent that much time setting up for the first board. Only because I didn't have the set up previously. I would expect to be able to change out in less than 30 min with some routine use and standard setups.

Keep in mind this run was just the T&G with one beveled edge not surface planing starting with wholesale kd syp.

I visited other commercial  mills and found they are buying wholesale s4s mostly and re-manufacturing it to the desired product. I havn't previously considered that because I was trying to justify running my own lumber through the machines. But after looking at other operations there is some merit to having someone else shoulder the burden of wharehousing and stocking inventory. Using whole sale stock increases my ability to respond to a customer order without excessive overhead. So we are going to try to move more in this direction ...establishing a minimum lf price mark up from wholesale and appropriate comparison pricing for premium products not readily available on the local market. ie T&G syp for flooring or horse stalls.

Eric


mur

I took the knives out after 3500 lineal feet of lodgepole pine.  1x6 and 1x4.  The finish was still acceptable.  But I was going over to 1x8 lodgepole with a back relief so I wanted new knives in to start that run.  A rather fussy customer for the 1x8 so I didn't want to take a chance on fuzzing out or getting it wrong.  I'll be doing some aspen in a bit and am going to keep track of the lineal feet again.  I am curious now.  Sharpening planer blades is not an issue as I have a woodworker friend who takes my blades to his place of work (a huge mill) and he sharpens them in his spare time.  I trade him wood - whatever he needs!!
Don't dream it, be it.

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