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European logging anyone?

Started by pinefeller, February 11, 2018, 05:59:00 PM

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pinefeller

Quote
I'd bet that little Tigercat with all those goodies would cost half a million. Deere and cat got out of that market because how many little skidders do you really think get sold a year? How many one man operations can afford to buy a new skidder or heck a low hour used skidder for that matter plus there's getting to be places in the country where they're not allowed to run them. There's a deal out of Canada that sounds just like the ticket for you


call me crazy but there is going to be a big turnover in the logging industry in my life time the median age is probably 55 in logging companies around here and up and coming guys arnt going to start with 3 new 748s,a slasher, a shiney new chipper, hot saw, trucking company ect. you start with a small skidder. nope not a big market maybe not even a money maker..... ever heard of brand loyalty though? who is going to make the next 540b or ...230 'jack, c5d? these antiques wont be around forever... ok they might... but you practically have to wait for some old dude to tip over and pry it out of his cold dead fingers to get one. with all the advancements in technology and manufacturing your telling me no one can produce a simple,,no frills machine. (and preferably a little dangerous to weed out the common sense impaired.)<--- yup hope that dont bite me in the butt lol
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

lopet

Not disagreeing with Maine372 and Chevy, it's not the perfect solution, because you have to compromise here and compromise there.  I kinda put it this way, it's like a Swiss army knife, which isn't meant to gut a deer either, but doable.

The perfect solution for me would be also two skidders, one just for winching the heavy stuff and a crane skidder for all the tops and the small diameter stuff.

And pinefeller, sorry it's not for sale, I am pushing 60 years and I deserve it, had to wait long enough.  ;D :D
Same with my shop, had to wait until I was 51.  So keep on working. :)

If I was your age and start all over again, I really would be looking at hydrostatic drive. Was never a big fan of them because of the lack of torque, but man they came a long ways. Seen it on a mid size payloader which had only a big hydraulic motor on both diffs. Downside is you will be dealing with a lot more complicated hydraulic system.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

lopet

Quote from: pinefeller on February 13, 2018, 07:06:13 PM
... but you practically have to wait for some old dude to tip over and pry it out of his cold dead fingers to get one.

:D :D :D     All I can do is wish you luck.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

pinefeller

 :D :D :D :D :D the first skidder i ever ran was a 518 and i fell in love, torque converter but close enough. i am aware of the benefits and smoothness. i started mechanical and have been going backwards ever since. at least my machine is paid for now and in good condition. hopefully i will be going forward in technology from now on because im not a horse person  :D :D

i will keep workin dont you worry...  ;)

...a swiss army knife with a loader... ;D
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

teakwood

Quote from: pinefeller on February 13, 2018, 06:35:43 PM
what is the deal out of canada? is lopet selling his? (i do remember him saying "let someone else import one then buy it from them'' in his thread)  ;D

and as far as what do you do when your jack of all machines breaks? ....buy 2 duh.... :D or just break out the old treefarmer--- ; (this is why i have multiple jobs i bounce around on anyway) i'll never be to proud to pull a cable. the concept is simple as dirt and well proven. im all for safety and operator comfort though. 

ok then farmi,palfinger, and others how about a retrofit kit for us guys with paid off old skidders? crane and dual remote winch thats a payment i could probably and would swing. no pun intended


Good thinking. But i think that my old 540A would't have nearly enough gpm oilflow to operate a crane, at least not faster than snail's pace :D
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

Southside

It's not the technology to build a small skidder, it's the cost to do so. Tier 4 adds what, $10K to $15K to a full size machine these days? Even those neat mini skidders from Quebec are $100K, that's a $2,400 / month payment there. Not sure how many little guys can make that work.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

pinefeller

---how about glider kits like the big trucks (basically a rolling chassis you supply the engine and trans)

--add a tandem pump to the 540. if they can run a crane off a 10hp honda i bet your deere could run it.
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

lopet

30K gets you a decent six wheeled forwarder, toss the crib, shorten the frame and mount a winch and/or a clamp.
Just sayn..... there is another idea.  I might even do that hahah.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Skeans1


mike_belben

Quote from: Southside logger on February 13, 2018, 09:10:01 PM
It's not the technology to build a small skidder, it's the cost to do so. Tier 4 adds what, $10K to $15K to a full size machine these days? Even those neat mini skidders from Quebec are $100K, that's a $2,400 / month payment there. Not sure how many little guys can make that work.

So tier 4 is finally working as planned then? ...  At breaking the little guys back.
Praise The Lord

teakwood

Quote from: lopet on February 13, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
30K gets you a decent six wheeled forwarder, toss the crib, shorten the frame and mount a winch and/or a clamp.
Just sayn..... there is another idea.  I might even do that hahah.

That's a excellent idea! Really 30K? how many hours?

Build me one ;D
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

lopet

Okay maybe I was a little low on that number. I thought I ve seen some older Valmets or Rottnes on Richards Carlson site or the used logging equipment site in that price range. Well that was a few years ago, obviously that market has changed too, or those deals are history.
Then you have to make all this changes and put another 20k or more in it. Maybe it's not such a good idea, just a though. :) 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Riwaka

Rather than building small skidders again for a limited market. Perhaps John deere should bring over a few Kotschenreuthers or similar forestry tractors.
If the JD engineers work out the changes that are needed, maybe  find the right North American engineering shop to put the new machines together  as required. The new machines will eventually work their way down the affordability chain as older machines.
260 horsepower might almost be enough for small pulpwood thinnings.

kotschenreuther

KOTSCHENREUTHER ? Ihr Partner für Forst- und Landtechnik

John Deere Forsttraktoren | Austrofoma 2015 | landwirt.com - YouTube

KOTSCHENREUTHER R-SERIE - YouTube


Brian_Rhoad

John Deere makes or did make forestry tractors in Europe. There are other brands that have factory made forestry tractors. They just don't have them in North America.

Skeans1

Wonder if some of the reasons they won't bring them to the states is our safety requirements to meet all states.

lopet

That one Woody - YouTube is about the size of a 440 or C4 has the crane plumbed for a processor head, the rear plumbed for a hydro trailer which runs synchronized with the tractor, up to forty hydraulic functions.
AMAZING. 8)
The hydraulic system needs a computer to control it and that worries me most. I am too old for this technology, grew up with lever controls and got to know and adapt  electric over hydraulic systems, but that's as far as I go. If I can't fix it with a hammer, a screw driver, a wise grip or a voltmeter I am lost.  :D :D 
Wouldn't mind to run it for a day and return it to the dealer. ;D
It's go big or go home boys, same as farming, but then there is the odd guy like me, who still wants to do something but just not everyday.  :) 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Satamax

French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

teakwood

Quote from: Riwaka on February 14, 2018, 09:06:24 PM
Rather than building small skidders again for a limited market. Perhaps John deere should bring over a few Kotschenreuthers or similar forestry tractors.
If the JD engineers work out the changes that are needed, maybe  find the right North American engineering shop to put the new machines together  as required. The new machines will eventually work their way down the affordability chain as older machines.
260 horsepower might almost be enough for small pulpwood thinnings.

kotschenreuther

KOTSCHENREUTHER ? Ihr Partner für Forst- und Landtechnik

John Deere Forsttraktoren | Austrofoma 2015 | landwirt.com - YouTube

KOTSCHENREUTHER R-SERIE - YouTube



They are very nice but don't think they won't cost around 250K
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

nativewolf

Quote from: lopet on February 14, 2018, 07:55:23 PM
Okay maybe I was a little low on that number. I thought I ve seen some older Valmets or Rottnes on Richards Carlson site or the used logging equipment site in that price range. Well that was a few years ago, obviously that market has changed too, or those deals are history.
Then you have to make all this changes and put another 20k or more in it. Maybe it's not such a good idea, just a though. :)

Actually you are fine.  At least lots of 4x4 forwarders for that price, there are not so many 6x6 for sale that I see but plenty of 4x4, more 8x8 and they are a bit more. 
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: teakwood on February 14, 2018, 06:28:07 AM
Quote from: lopet on February 13, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
30K gets you a decent six wheeled forwarder, toss the crib, shorten the frame and mount a winch and/or a clamp.
Just sayn..... there is another idea.  I might even do that hahah.

That's a excellent idea! Really 30K? how many hours?

Build me one ;D

How many hours?  Man, they'll barely be broken in by Costa Rican standards.  Barely broken in...
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

search spokane CL for 6x6 forwarder and you'll find one that is a forestry forum special for 18k and 2x,000 hours.  There's only one other in CL and that's out in the UP a valmet for 68k but it has 12k hours and looks newish. 

Liking Walnut

thecfarm

Satamax,I just play on my own land,40 hp tractor. So don't have the time in big machines. But that tractor I feel would be kinda light on whatever end the logs are not on.Yes,level,smooth ground,as in the first part of the video is fine. Get one wheel over a foot high rock or a stump and I would get kinda nervous,especially in second gear.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

lopet

Quote from: Satamax on February 16, 2018, 05:17:09 AM
Guys, have you ever seen this stuff?

Yes, three point hitch grapples are available here in North America. Wallenstein makes different models not far from my place but I don't think they will really catch on because you have to be able to drive up to the log. With all the underbrush we are dealing with here I don't see this is possible. 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

teakwood

Quote from: nativewolf on February 16, 2018, 07:06:07 AM
Quote from: teakwood on February 14, 2018, 06:28:07 AM
Quote from: lopet on February 13, 2018, 10:26:10 PM
30K gets you a decent six wheeled forwarder, toss the crib, shorten the frame and mount a winch and/or a clamp.
Just sayn..... there is another idea.  I might even do that hahah.

That's a excellent idea! Really 30K? how many hours?

Build me one ;D

How many hours?  Man, they'll barely be broken in by Costa Rican standards.  Barely broken in...

:D :D :D
Now slow down!! I maybe live in CR but i'm still from Switzerland (the land of perfection! :D)

Kidding aside, i would never buy any complicated machine over 6-8k hours, period! It's just not worth the time and money.

My 1971 Deere 540A has 380h on the hourmeter that i installed 2 years ago  ;D ;D


National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

teakwood

I don't know how many hours my deere has, but i am astonished how well that machine is build!!
one turn on the key and the engine starts, has NO leaks, doesn't burn oil or coolant and that's on a 47year old girl!!

Of course i thread her well, changed various hoses, seals, o-ring and some other parts, frequent oil changes and maintenance, go light and often is another motto i like.   
But still, every time i need her she won't let me down! 

I am pretty sure that a modern machine will not act the same after 40+ years of age 
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

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