iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Is there a best way to cut birds eye maple and curley maple?

Started by Modat22, September 20, 2006, 09:30:19 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Modat22

I've been studying a little  :P and I'm pretty dang sure I found a 25 inch maple in my woods (that I want to take down anyway) that has that coke bottle swelling and appears to have some bark communiating the existance of birds eye underneath. I also think I found a like size maple much taller and clear that has appears to have a slight spiral pattern in the bark going up the tree (possible curly?)

Since I am so new to this what would be the best way to cut this? Should I wait awhile say after I saw several trees before I attempt this cut?

Thanks
Sam

I'll try to take some pictures this weekend and show you what I think I see.
remember man that thy are dust.

jkj

I'd think you have a good chance of ruining much of the wood if you get all excited and start cutting into it.   The best figure is usually near the bark, so if you want boards, you have to saw appropriately.  If the log is really spectactular, it may be worth far more as venier.  Also, figured maple is highly regarded by woodturners, but for this has to be cut into chunks instead of boards.  I let some spalt and was rewarded with some amazing pieces.

This might be interesting reading: Field Identification of Birdseye in Sugar Maple

And unless the tree is obviously damaged, diseased, or decaying, there is no hurry to cut it.  Two or twenty years from now it will still be there and even bigger.  My property has an obviously figured maple, an incredibly figured yellow poplar, and several figured oaks that I might cut some day, but for now, I love just walking by and looking at them.

JKJ
LT-15 for farm and fun

Daren

If you don't feel like you have the experience to get the most out of it, it won't hurt to wait for sure. Here is a link to another discussion on sawing curly maple https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=19133.0 . I kinda wish I had had more experience when I tackled this one. This was not only the first curly log I mill, but the first big log I had to chainsaw to get to fit on the mill. If I had that log today...I bet I would have got another 300 bft out of it. (I recently sold some for $14+ bft... do that math  :'(, 300 x 14) I did a good job of sawing, and the lumber was awesome but experience would have yielded more. A smaller one like you are talking about should be a little easier, but if it was my log I would get good at sawing before you tackle it. I didn't have much choice, the log in the thread I linked was already down and it was summer.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Modat22

One log I'll need to remove soon as my neighbor told me to cut it down and out of his way. I guess I could toss it in the pond until I'm ready to saw it. The redoak I had stored was in the pond for about a year and is still in great shape.
remember man that thy are dust.

Daren

When I said I could get 300 more bft out of it today it got me looking back at some old pictures. 300 bft is probably a real low number. I had the whole tree if I wanted it, and it was pretty big. This is just 2 of the 4 pieces I brought home . Actually I had it hauled home by the city streets guy with an endloader. They were cleaning up a lot here in town and I saw it and said I wanted it. The lower limb was 20" (?)... there was probably 2000+ lbs of great free turning stock I let get away (some of the tree was hollow, that is why it was coming down). I knew about the tree being felled and drove by it several times without even getting out of the truck. I could see all the birdhouses and clotheslines hanging off it. I thought why do I want a metal infested soft maple log that big for, it'll work me to death. Finally one day after they had been working on it and hauled off SEVERAL dumptruck loads to burn I jumped out of the truck and looked at it close and saw it was curly.  :-[ , Another lesson learned. I was just covered up with walnut and cherry and never gave it thought that it could be figured. Now figured wood is really on my mind every time I go to look at one.


Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Modat22

That is a big one. My saw could handle it but I'm not sure I could. Right now the biggest log I'd even want to handle would be around 20 to 25" diameter. I can go 48 wide x around 55" tall on the deck.

How long can you keep a log like your's on the ground and in good shape?
remember man that thy are dust.

Daren

Quote from: Modat22 on September 20, 2006, 10:42:12 AM
How long can you keep a log like your's on the ground and in good shape?

Depends on what you want, if you want nice white wood not very long, like a matter of weeks I think in warm weather. If you like (or have a market for) spalted wood you have all the time in the world. I think this tree was dead and spalting before they ever cut it, it had at least started by the time I got it. I let it lay for a few months, I figured it had already started spalting might as well make the most of it. I just sawed a little more of it a few weeks ago. I saved a crotch for "whenever".



It has layed in a shady spot for more than 2 years. The bark has already slimed off.



It is still mostly sound. It will make it through this winter, but not till next summer (the 3rd summer down) it will be too punky. It is already pretty punky in the middle, nothing good is coming out of that part. I have been sawing pieces of that crotch for turning stock.


Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Jeff

Darren, did the ceiling tile you sent me come out of that log there?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Brad_S.

Quote from: Modat22 on September 20, 2006, 09:30:19 AM
I also think I found a like size maple much taller and clear that has appears to have a slight spiral pattern in the bark going up the tree (possible curly?)
Spiral doen't indicate figure, but it could be indicating a defect that will give you twisting lumber.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13704.0
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

footer

Last spring, a friend of mine wanted me to come over with my big chain saw and help him take out a big maple trunk that was already limbed. I didn't think anything about it maybe being curly maple. I could have taken the whole log in one piece.It was about 36"DBH and about 8 feet tall. I cut it down and chunked it up with the cainsaw, then we started splitting it up with a log splitter. I almost cried when I saw the curly maple going into the firewood pile.  :(  I still have a lot of the bigger pieces in the firewood pile. Maybe I should look into them as turning stock.

Daren

Quote from: Jeff B on September 20, 2006, 11:14:20 AM
Darren, did the ceiling tile you sent me come out of that log there?

Yep, that there log. It was a chunk of the sap, the sapwood had not spalted yet. You can see the odd bridseye bumps on the outside of the spalting crotch picture that the bark has slipped off now. That chunk that went north was sawed off when I first got the logs, it had a few birdseyes in it too. Some funky wood for sure.



Quote from: footer on September 20, 2006, 12:56:16 PM
I almost cried when I saw the curly maple going into the firewood pile. :( I still have a lot of the bigger pieces in the firewood pile. Maybe I should look into them as turning stock.

footer, I know the feeling. I dug this out of a guys firewood pile a couple weeks ago. Quilted rock maple. From a log he said was close to 40" x 10' before it limbed out.



Me and this guy have went circle for 3 years I can't remember his real name. I call him "Curly" to his face. I am not repeating the whole story, but he has split more figured hardwood to burn in the last 4 years than I will see in 10. Here is a picture of some curly elm I also dug out of his firewood pile, the curl is TIGHT, like less than 1/4" each curl. That would have made some lumber like I have never seen... that log was 30" x 14' he said.




"Curly" and I have been swapping firewood now. I would have much rather had the logs for lumber, but I have found a use for the split chunks. I am trading him my split seasoned firewood for his figured chunks... they make pretty fishing plugs.



Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

SwampDonkey

If it's curl you'll see ripples in the sapwood under the bark, like in Daren's burl pic. Birdseye is often times only found in the sapwood. A good piece has rays from the figure toward the heart. I've had logs with 19 inch top get rejected for birdseye because it was only sapwood figure. Seen another one same size with figure clear through and it was a $3500 log.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

metalspinner

Swampdonkey,

QuoteI've had logs with 19 inch top get rejected for birdseye because it was only sapwood figure. Seen another one same size with figure clear through and it was a $3500 log.
That's interesting.  The white sap is the best part of any maple tree.  That doesn't seem to make much sense on the buyer's side.  Unfortunately, I have noticed that at our hardwood dealer that the birdseye selection is full of heartwood lately. :(

Modat22,
The figure in birdseye is on the flatsawn face of a board.  Curl shows up on any face.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

Left Coast Chris

Daren......... you mentioned that the tree with the cloths lines etc in it was a soft maple.  Was it a silver maple?

I just cut up a large silver maple but did not get much figure.  Growth rings were 3/4" to 1" apart.   Fast grower.  It is drying pretty well with little or no spliting or checking.  Its very white.   Nice looking.
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

SwampDonkey

Quote from: metalspinner on September 20, 2006, 10:40:45 PM
That's interesting.  The white sap is the best part of any maple tree.  That doesn't seem to make much sense on the buyer's side.  Unfortunately, I have noticed that at our hardwood dealer that the birdseye selection is full of heartwood lately. :(

Yup, your right on the white wood of maple. I forgot to mention they only accepted 1/3 or less heart in the log. This log had a 2 inch heart I believe.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Most curl in my area is in red maple and you can find alot of the curl in just a 2 foot section of the but log. When you find it most of the way up the tree, then you have a find. We also get curl in yellow birch and sugar maple, but not real common. We also get birdseye in yellow birch, but I only seen it once and the guy brought it in from his firewood pile.  :o DOH!!!
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Daren

Quote from: farmer77 on September 21, 2006, 12:37:16 AM
Daren......... you mentioned that the tree with the cloths lines etc in it was a soft maple.  Was it a silver maple?

No it was a red maple like SwampDonkey mentioned. It is ALOT softer than suger maple, to be honest I am not to familiar with silver maple so I don't know how the 2 compare.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

SwampDonkey

The word sapwood is often a misnomer and can include dead wood and live wood that conducts the water and nutrients from the ground (xylem). Sapwood is younger (xylem) wood. The darker wood we call heart, but it's still xylem, but has deposits there that darken the wood. The only area that transports sap in just under the bark (phloem) that moves water soluble organic compounds (including sugars) up and down the tree to maintain itself. This is produced to the outside of the cambium, the part of the tree that grows by cell division. The cambium makes the xylem (wood) to the inside as well.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

metalspinner

Swampdonkey,
So in a large maple tree, let's say 24"in diameter,  the center dark section may be 4 -6".  This is the heartwood.(?)  Is all the outer remaining white wood called the sapwood or is just the phloem wood that is under the bark called sap wood.  Is some of the white wood also heart wood. smiley_dizzy smiley_dizzy
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

SwampDonkey

Well what folks are calling sapwood is still part of the xylem where soil water and nutrients are taken up.  But, it ain't sap. The sap is traveling up and down the tree under the bark through the phloem. That's why 'bunnies', 'quil dogs' and 'mices' chew the bark off your planted maple, pine and apple trees, mmm mmm good sugary sap. The heartwood is less conducive to take up soil water and nutrients because of deposits, fungal stains or mineral stains (or other extractives), making the wood darker.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

metalspinner

I was in one of the big box stores looking for 1/4"paneling a few weeks back.  While shuffleing through the sheets, I noticed the back veneer.  Three sheets in a row had birdseye maple veneer as the back.  You bet I went through the entire stack after that.  Didn't find anymore though.

here is what I went shopping for...




This is what I found...





8) 8) 8) 8)

I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

SwampDonkey

Now that's something to ponder. The veneer buyers call it a defect, so I suspect the plywood was 'good on one side'?  Which side? ::)  :D :D ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Thank You Sponsors!