woodmizer , no upgrades allowed

Tom L · November 07, 2011, 01:31:12 PM

First, I am not bashing anyone, I am very happy with the mill I bought and the service I get from woodmizer.

but this caught me a little off guard, my lt28 is basically the same frame and head and upgraded engine as an lt35

called my woodmizer rep on friday, great individual, no problems with him, them at all

but I was surprised that I can't take the lt28 to the dealer and have them upgrade a few parts too add a hydraulic clamp

or log loaders to the machine, seems the company will not allow it, so you have to buy a whole new mill to get a few extra functions. no big deal,(if you have the cash) I was hoping that sometime over the winter to drop it off and add a few things.

you can do it yourself, but void any or all warranties that come with it

so this must follow suit with the other model woodmizer's also, if you buy a lt40 manual and hope to upgrade a few things down the line, you can't buy the parts and woodmizer labor and make it an lt 40 super if you want to at a different stage in your mill's life. at least if you want the warranty to stand. or if you want the manufacturer to do the labor so it comes out right the first time with not having to tinker with it for months.

I guess it all makes sense, they want to sell new mills, but on the other hand they already have my business, so why not take more of it?

I thought I was thinking right by keeping things simple with the lt 28 and being able to upgrade if I thought it would help some more down the line. I couldn't afford the more complicated machine before, and sure can't swing a whole new one again.

kinda like taking my truck to the a local hitch dealer and have them put on a heavy duty hitch on my truck. and then having the dealer say the warranty is shot because I put a hitch on. I have to buy a new truck with a factory installed hitch if I want to pull something. but not being able to take the truck to the dealer in the first place and having them install the same item

Ianab · November 07, 2011, 02:23:51 PM

I can see their point of view though.

If they supply and fit an accessory they have to guarantee it will work. What if it causes some unforeseen problems with the hydraulics, electrics or battery system. Then they are on the hook to get it working.

The factory options are the ones that they KNOW will work. They have done the maths, built some prototypes etc. Probably spent those couple of months getting the bugs out of it. If you build a Frankenmill, well they shouldn't be on the hook to ensure it runs properly.

Other option is to sell the mill as they have good resale value, and get a new one, with all the options you want, or at least designed to take options in the future.

Ian

sparks · November 07, 2011, 02:57:33 PM

Since we are using automotive as a reference it would be like taking a 2 wheel drive pick-up back to the dealer and saying I want it to be a 4 wheel drive now. Or it's like taking it back and saying you now want a dually or I now want a 4 door cab. They will not do it because it is a major alteration of the chassis. Same with the LT28. For us to do it would be a major alteration of the main frame. These frames are welded together in a jig to make sure all components line up. When you start cutting on things, things can change. We are more than happy to sell the parts for customers who want to alter their mills but we do not offer that as a service. Thanks.

zopi · November 07, 2011, 03:20:59 PM

There is a limit to adaptability of design and production, while the parts may fit, there may be underlying issues which could crop up later..plus, doing the engineering amd testing for retrofits on equipment which may or may not have been revised is very costly...which would drive the prices of everything up...
Found this out when installing the GO kit under my mill..evidently some subtle things have changed in production, amd while the parts fit, some things had to be modified to make everything work right..ie the fenders.
Sorta like the water jug on the lt15...yeah, it could be better, but would drive up production price on what is basically an entry level mill

Tom L · November 07, 2011, 03:48:52 PM

Quote from: sparks on November 07, 2011, 02:57:33 PM
Since we are using automotive as a reference it would be like taking a 2 wheel drive pick-up back to the dealer and saying I want it to be a 4 wheel drive now. Or it's like taking it back and saying you now want a dually or I now want a 4 door cab. They will not do it because it is a major alteration of the chassis. Same with the LT28. For us to do it would be a major alteration of the main frame. These frames are welded together in a jig to make sure all components line up. When you start cutting on things, things can change. We are more than happy to sell the parts for customers who want to alter their mills but we do not offer that as a service. Thanks.

maybe some bolt on accessories would be the way to go. drill and tap, no stress built in or taken away. there seems to be a lot of holes in the mill now to accept other jigs for cutting specialty items. I do know your point as far as cutting and welding material on the frame. and the stress that affects a precision frame when you add heat and shrinkage. I'm not referencing major frame modifications. side by side they are the same except for some brackets to hold items.

Tom L · November 07, 2011, 03:51:20 PM

Quote from: Ianab on November 07, 2011, 02:23:51 PM
I can see their point of view though.

If they supply and fit an accessory they have to guarantee it will work. What if it causes some unforeseen problems with the hydraulics, electrics or battery system. Then they are on the hook to get it working.

The factory options are the ones that they KNOW will work. They have done the maths, built some prototypes etc. Probably spent those couple of months getting the bugs out of it. If you build a Frankenmill, well they shouldn't be on the hook to ensure it runs properly.

Other option is to sell the mill as they have good resale value, and get a new one, with all the options you want, or at least designed to take options in the future.

Ian

I see your point , but I was talking about factory options that they know already work. nothing new or a new design.

geraldhale · November 07, 2011, 04:55:29 PM

I went down that road with my first wood mizer around 10 years ago, it was a lt40 and I wanted to add a hyd clamp and turner, I ordered a parts book from wood mizer for the lt40 hydralic and then ordered the parts I needed and installed them, on a saturday I think it was? It was not all that hard but me and the friend that helped me, we had both built or work on circular mills before so we both had some exsperience welding and fabracating.
I sold that mill easy a few years later for more than I bought it for, oh and I changed it from a 24 hp gas to a 25 hp three phase and added stronger legs for it to stand on, it was a good little mill but I got tired of having to walk behind it and I wanted a board drag back and that I know I couldnt add so I sold it and got the lt40 super electric with everything I could get on it the secound time around!!!

Bandmill Bandit · November 07, 2011, 06:27:37 PM

IMHO

If you do not have the shop, tools and equipment along with experience and knowledge to make those type of mods BEFORE you buy your mill then you should not do those kind of mods. Any mods you undertake should be done AFTER warranty has expired, or just buy it the way you want it in the first place.

Mods have never scared me and more then a few pieces of farm machinery have a couple standard features today that I added as mods to my machines because I was to lazy to get out of the combine cab to do the manual work to close the stone trap or clear the lump out from under the header auger and then was to dumb to realize that every farmer would want one.

Bibbyman · November 07, 2011, 06:41:09 PM

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on November 07, 2011, 06:27:37 PM
..... or just buy it the way you want it in the first place.

Sometimes you don't know how you wanted it in the first place. In my case I had to work on Mary for 6 months to get her to agree to a mill. Then another couple of months to talk her up from and LT25 (ancestor to the LT28). And then another couple of months to talk her up to a LT40 manual. I just couldn't talk her into an LT40 hydraulic. (was no such thing as a Super back then).

But I agree. If you want/need hydraulics, trade up to an LT35 or just skip on up to an LT70 with the works. It will be a much more harmonious outcome.

Bandmill Bandit · November 07, 2011, 07:02:50 PM

Yea Bibbyman i grew up in a farm home like that too. Then when I started in farming with dad he would just blame it on me and ask forgiveness. I made some dumb choices but you learn from them pretty fast.

the one principle i run on now is this. If I cant afford it I dont buy it till I can. one thing i have done with financing is what I call self financing. If i can afford to make the payment and pay the finance rate I just start making the payment same as if I had bought it into what is called the tax free savings account here in Canada. Works like a charm and can add up pretty quick.

DR Buck · November 07, 2011, 07:12:19 PM

Quote from: Bibbyman on November 07, 2011, 06:41:09 PM
Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on November 07, 2011, 06:27:37 PM
..... or just buy it the way you want it in the first place.

Sometimes you don't know how you wanted it in the first place. In my case I had to work on Mary for 6 months to get her to agree to a mill. Then another couple of months to talk her up from and LT25 (ancestor to the LT28). And then another couple of months to talk her up to a LT40 manual. I just couldn't talk her into an LT40 hydraulic. (was no such thing as a Super back then).

But I agree. If you want/need hydraulics, trade up to an LT35 or just skip on up to an LT70 with the works. It will be a much more harmonious outcome.

........or just get "Mr Upgrade Designer" himself to help you. :D :D :D

My Lt 40 hydraulic came with the Lub-mizer and Debarker. But I've added a lot of upgrades to since I bought it.

- Accuset // Accuset II
- Bibbyman movable backstops
- Stainless steel bunk covers
- Auto clutch
- Powered Board return
- Sun Umbrella
- Backstop top rollers
- Engine tachometer

What I haven't added yet is the new adjustable outriggers (I'd like to add but not ready to spend $$), high performance blade guides, seat and the laser sight. These other items I've little interest in right now.

What I would really like to have is not available from Wood-Mizer as a retrofit. That's a stationary console, which is now offered as an option on a new mill. I may look into engineering it as an addition on my own. ;D I think all I need is longer electrical cables and the track.

zopi · November 07, 2011, 07:21:31 PM

Imo...wouldn't buy the thirty five anyway...if yer gonna go hydraulic, get a 40h at least...ya hafta pass up alot of good lumber with that little head...spend the other five grand and be able to saw the big logs...doing a twenty eight inch red oak on my fifteen right now..quarter sawing it...and all I could think cussing at it while I whittled the big bugger down was, jeez this would be easy with a bigger head...and hydraulics...

T Welsh · November 07, 2011, 07:29:15 PM

Tom L, What everybody else said ;D Tim

Dave Shepard · November 07, 2011, 07:34:42 PM

The frame for a manual mill and one with the hydraulic clamp are different, there is a bump out near the axle to allow the two plane clamp to travel. I can see that they can't really make that upgrade.

red · November 07, 2011, 07:54:20 PM

i think upgrades are good from a base model maybe a lt40 to a super hd but a lt28 built on the same frame is still a lt28

Banjo picker · November 07, 2011, 09:08:59 PM

Quote from: Tom L on November 07, 2011, 01:31:12 PM
I thought I was thinking right by keeping things simple with the lt 28 and being able to upgrade if I thought it would help some more down the line. I couldn't afford the more complicated machine before, and sure can't swing a whole new one again.

It would have been a really good thing to have run that little bit of info by them before you bought it don't you think....Its obvious you were thinking about a future upgrade when you bought it...Tim

POSTON WIDEHEAD · November 07, 2011, 09:12:24 PM

Dr. Buck.....add a microwave and a drink cooler and I'll order one of your mills!

Bandmill Bandit · November 07, 2011, 10:05:35 PM

Yea I have done a few additions/mods too, lights, so you can finish the log or the job, a Green laser site that works real good in the day time too. ( have to do a bit more tweaking on it) a tool box, have the parts for the board return, debating on the fine adjust out rigging jacks from WM or do I just do my own? umbrella that works with or without the seat, have pretty much figured out a hydraulic centre roller to help centre logs and am thinking of building an in feed table.

I can get 21 foot 3' drill stem joints for $30 so the total steel cost to build would be about $200. If I spent another 300 on bearings etc that'd be about it. I have the hydraulic motor and most of the rest of the parts including a 4x8 sheet of 1/2 steal to cut the log loading arms out of. even if I spent a $1000 total out side of my time and welding supplies it still be a pretty inexpensive build.

sparks · November 08, 2011, 03:28:11 PM

I forgot to mention that if you do the mods yourself it does not void your mill warranty if the parts are purchased from us. There is no warranty on the mod itself since it is not designed for the mill but the mill warranty is intact.

r.man · November 08, 2011, 04:40:02 PM

Now that sounds very fair. Until Sparks modified his comment I was going to say ignore the warranty and do the mods anyway but this is the better.

Brad_bb · November 08, 2011, 07:04:53 PM

Yeah, I think enough of us if not all, are going to make mods regardless. There are many with mechanical ablity here, and the ingenuity and drive to push forward and make things work better.

pineywoods · November 08, 2011, 07:44:56 PM

I have up-graded and modified the dickens out of my mizer LT40. The waranty issue is moot, it's 16 years old. I use woodmizer parts where it's prudent to do so, but mostly fabricate my own. The basic design of an lt40 makes homemade additions and changes fairly easy. Mine started life as an 18 hp basic manual mill. Now sports a 25 hp liquid cooled kawasaki power plant, home brew hydraulic log turner, hydraulic log clamp, powered backstops, homebrew auto clutch, and a back yard engineered remote console. Got ideas about a setworks (factory stuff won't work) just not enough time in a day...If you consider upgrading a mizer, I'd say 2 things
1. Unless you are a world class welder, don't go welding on the frame or the head

2 Go for it.

zopi · November 08, 2011, 08:00:28 PM

Quote from: Brad_bb on November 08, 2011, 07:04:53 PM
Yeah, I think enough of us if not all, are going to make mods regardless. There are many with mechanical ablity here, and the ingenuity and drive to push forward and make things work better.

Something I posted the other day...most sawyers are inveterate tinkerers...folks with skills are drawn to mills...besides a metal lathe, what other single tool can one accomplish so much?

Was cussing the not adjustable jacks on the GO chassis this morning, and think I have a good farmer engineered version of the fine adjust stands figured out...using the original LT 15 feet, bore the bottom hole big enough to weld the nut flush to the bottom of the foot and screw the foot in...this by itself should work, however, I am lazy, amd squatting to turn an inch and five steenths wrench in the dirt is not in the cards, so, weld a straight piece of round bar to the top of the foot, long enough to reach the top of the leg...weld a nut on top of this rod to make the adjustment with a ratchet or speed handle, then, since filling the leg up with sawdust is detrimental to sanity...make a plate steel cap with a piece of pipe big enough to allow a socket onto the nut and weld it on..just make sure the top nut is small enough to fit through the bottom nut...

Really elegant would be sliding fit square tube and stock, so that the top nut need not move at all....but since you really only need a couple inches of travel, that is probably overkill...and might rattle...this irritating the sawyer already running on coffee... lol

zopi · November 08, 2011, 08:02:45 PM

Quote from: pineywoods on November 08, 2011, 07:44:56 PM

1. Unless you are a world class welder, don't go welding on the frame or the head.

NOW, he tells me. lol

Bandmill Bandit · November 08, 2011, 08:33:32 PM

1. Unless you are a world class welder, don't go welding on the frame or the head(quote from pineywoods)

The Wood Mizer LT40 Frame has enough pre drilled/punched holes that you shouldn't need to weld to the actual frame because you can make a mount to bolt up to the frame.

Forces you to do a more professional job when you wrap you mind around using the existing mounting holes.