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small diameter logging with stroke delimber harvester

Started by Pclem, January 21, 2017, 02:04:41 PM

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Pclem

Any chance anybody uses or have used them? They're popular in Europe. I'm interested in the small acreage/ small diameter market. [ 1st pine thinnings, and sourcing logs for firewood business]. I see farmi makes one for small-mid size excavators. Probably the only dealer in the states?? Hahn machinery in minnesota also makes a CTL head recommended for 20-25k machines. I'd like to keep it small enough to haul myself for the smaller jobs
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

barbender

I've wondered the same for first entry pine. Our Ponsse processors seem like overkill in it, and it's a struggle to make a profit in it in a lot of stands. I have a hunch those stroke heads would delimb it better, too. Especially in warmer weather.
Too many irons in the fire

Pclem

Yeah, from what I understand, the stroke harvesters are stronger than the roller type? That's probably more the case with smaller hp machines. Not sure on price. The small Hahn roller ctl is 80k new. I would hope the stroke type are cheaper
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

1270d

Stroke harvesters are capable of more brute force, but usually won't work as good as a faster roller feed head.  Consider a swinging axe, vs one that is slowly pushed.

That aside Kesla makes a nice looking little stroker, and I believe there was a Tapio stroker as well

Pclem

Looks like kesla has a couple dealers in the states... I'll check them out. Thanks 1270
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Jamie_C

The little Arbro 400 heads appear to be gaining popularity again around here, they are commonly mounted on mini excavators.

quilbilly

What is the necessary flow required for a stroke? I thought most were mounted on midi excavators. We have a 35 Kubota and remember it being to small for recommended gpm.
a man is strongest on his knees

Jamie_C

Quick Google search says 45-80 liters per minute and 2500 psi is all that's required for the Arbro 400

DDW_OR

I am also looking for a small roller head harvester for my Bobcat E80
I am leaning towards the Hahn since it is made in Minnesota.
so 75k + controls in the cab + shipping = $$,$$$
still considering it.

but then with a stroke i could count the number of strokes and judge how long the log is.

so far these are the heads i have found

the prices i list are NOT in concrete
logmax     928a =  too big
hahn     hsg-140 = have not been made in a few years, they have the parts, Made in MN, $75,000 and up
hakmet     275R
hakmet     375R
hakmet     Arbro 400 = $45,000 and up
hakmet     Arbro 1000 = $64,000 and up
Naarva      S23c = $26,000 and up
Naarva      S250
Naarva      S250r
kesla     16RH
kesla     20SH-II
ponsse     H5 = need 50 gpm, 100 hp
"let the machines do the work"

Pclem

I looked up info on the arbro 400, and it looks like they have a measuring system somehow for lengths. I see hakmet has tons of dealers in the states, so that may be the best route for service and parts
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

TroyF21

Good evening.  I had too reply about a stroke head.  I have a 2006 tapio . It limbs well but that's about the only good thing I can say about my head . My head has a major flaw in the design of the saw motor. The shafts are too light and the only thing that holds the sprocket on is a 6mm bolt that breaks every time .  I have spent 1000s on it and rebuilt it all new three times in less than the 2 years I've owned it  . These shafts are 800$ each  plus labour. Mayb the new ones have changed but my head has pretty well ruined me  because it is poor set up.     

chester_tree _farmah

Stroke processors are inherently slower but typically less expensive. Measuring length  is simple for either.
254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

DDW_OR

Quote from: TroyF21 on January 23, 2017, 05:50:46 PM
..........sprocket on is a 6mm bolt that breaks every time .....
On my Multitek 1610EZ the saw has a 1/4 inch bolt = 6mm
the cylinder that moves the saw to cut has a pressure relief valve.
does your Tapio have one?

may not look like this but should have a set screw


 

in photo below, above hose is from saw motor, left hose goes to cylinder, front hose goes back to the tank.


 
"let the machines do the work"

TroyF21

I've changed that valve.  We have now drilled holes in the coupling and put set screws in it too hold tight on the shaft. Got it all back together again yesterday so hoping for some luck today  with it

1270d


DDW_OR

Quote from: TroyF21 on January 27, 2017, 06:08:46 AM
I've changed that valve...........

good, but did you adjust it?

also please update your profile so we can see where you are at.
City, state, country. or the equivalent. do not need street address.

example, my profile shows Glendale Oregon, that is about 2 miles from my place.
"let the machines do the work"

TroyF21

Yes it was stuck on 160 bar and supose too be at 80 . We run it today with no issues   Would that valve not working properly would that wreck my shafts and break the 6mm bolt ? We are from Nova Scotia Canada.  Thanks for your reply I've had this machine going on 2 years and my 1st one. Nothing but trouble with the shafts. No support here for tapio heads as well . I had a log Max mechanic helping us thank goodness.

DDW_OR

yep, 160 vs 80 = twice the power that should be

glad it is working.
here is a link to my headache.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,93354.0/all.html#top

Everything "seems" to be working now but time will tell.
"let the machines do the work"

1270d

Is it a keyed shaft?   Have any pictures of the saw  area?   Is the sprocket shimmed to the correct alignment with the bar?

Riwaka

How small is small ?  Beer can diameter?
Might look at the overall operation  machinery requirements.  Fell, move to skid/landing, processing and loading.
Small / part-time or a 5-6 day a week/ 10 hour per day or longer operation etc.
Do you want to use a chainsaw for a little bit of too big logs etc ?
See if you can get rebuilt (to a high standard) roller head to fell, delimb and process (Finland - some firewood operations use roller heads to process firewood).
Drop off the head and use a grapple to load, if self loading trucks are not economic (one or two machine operation - with a good profit as a minium goal)
Used logmax 928 or waratah 412 (rebuilt) on used ten tonne excavator with a few mods etc.
https://youtu.be/iGPCXR8YHdc

Pclem

That eucalyptis is pretty small and smooth compared to what I would have. The red pine around here has more and bigger limbs [1st thinning maybe up to 2 inches in dia.] Preferably, I would like something to handle diameters up to 10 inches. I realize the stroke harvesters are slower, but I like the smaller investment to start out and see how big the need is to start out.
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Pclem

Quote from: DDW_OR on January 23, 2017, 02:47:28 AM
I am also looking for a small roller head harvester for my Bobcat E80
I am leaning towards the Hahn since it is made in Minnesota.
so 75k + controls in the cab + shipping = $$,$$$
still considering it.

but then with a stroke i could count the number of strokes and judge how long the log is.

so far these are the heads i have found

the prices i list are NOT in concrete
logmax     928a =  too big
hahn     hsg-140 = have not been made in a few years, they have the parts, Made in MN, $75,000 and up
hakmet     275R
hakmet     375R
hakmet     Arbro 400 = $45,000 and up
hakmet     Arbro 1000 = $64,000 and up
Naarva      S23c = $26,000 and up
Naarva      S250
Naarva      S250r
kesla     16RH
kesla     20SH-II
ponsse     H5 = need 50 gpm, 100 hp


DDW, Did you ever pursue any of these?
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

DDW_OR

on March 2017, looked at the Arbro 1000. shipped from Canada, computer + joystick + wiring + rotator + shipping = $69,000
I would have to supply the mounting plate and extra hydraulic lines.

It looks like my E80 can use either the 400 or 1000. although the 1000 is a little on the big size
Now looking at the 400 with 16 inch bar= about $46,500 plus freight for the same setup. a savings of about $23,000. i can do a lot with the 23k

looking to use www.agdirect.com for the financing, have used it in the past with no problems.

for removing small trees and brush from the fence line i thought of using something like this
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,54852.0/all.html
the fence line is 28,000 feet plus cross fencing.
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

would LOVE to get the  Hahn hsg-140 since is it made in the USA. but since it has not been made in a few years and is on the upper limits of the E80.......

kesla, was told that there was no service in USA
hakmet 275R, too big
Naarva, max cut 12 inch, too small
AFM     AFM 35, too big
Nisula  425C,  no service in USA
ponsse H5, too big
Farmi = Naarva
logmax 928a, too big


hakmet 275R, too much $$ for me
hakmet 375R, too much $$ for me
hakmet Arbro 1000, 22 inch max cut, at the upper limits for the E80
hakmet Arbro 400,  16 inch max cut

plan to use the harvester for most of the work. then a chainsaw for the bigger felling and the harvester for the delimbing
"let the machines do the work"

Skeans1

There's a new head out by eco forest, your dealer would be Crostrek/Pioneer Machinery. There was a local guy that had a small dangle on mini Kubota that I think was a Kesla.
There's a dealer here in the states Woodland Equipment, Inc. I've never dealt with them but I'm sure someone is back there can chime in.

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