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Book on timber framing

Started by Jim_Rogers, June 02, 2010, 03:43:53 PM

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Jim_Rogers

Over the years, it has been suggested, that I write a book on timber framing.

There are lots of books out there on the subject, and to sell "my" book idea to a publisher, it would have to have a good "hook".

That is, a reason why you'd buy my book over some of the other books already out there.

What would be your reason for buying a book about timber framing from me?

What parts of timber framing would you like to see in my book about timber framing?

Feel free to post your thoughts.
If you don't want to post them, then pm or email them to me.

Jim Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Radar67

You could reference and picture the old tools used for framing and how to properly care for them. Most of the books I have read mention the tools and maybe a half decent picture of them, but not much detail on their use.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Brad_bb

One has to look at what comes up here on the forums that you don't find in those other books, or where there is insufficient detail in those other books.  For example, Boring machines has been a recent topic with me.  What's out there, what to look for in terms of condition and what to do to make them work correctly.  Advantages and disadvantages etc.  Sharpening is another topic as it relates to timberframing, axes, etc.  Maybe include timberframe sawhorse(trestles?) and cribbing pony dimensioned drawings.  Shaving horse plans and peg making info. 
  I still think square rule layout and snap line square rule layout could be better explained and examples worked through better than in some other books.
  All depends on how much work you want to do to write a book, and how well would it sell?  Where would you sell it besides summer beam books, the guild store and maybe Amazon?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Alexis

I would like to see step by step directions to cutting some joints. Not just photo like in sobon's book, but really step by step instruction showing how to hold the tool, how much to remove in each pass. I think everybody has a different way to cut a tenon so you could show a few different technique.. When to pare with the grain and when to pare against.

Alexis

addicted

I would second Brads comments. Boring machines and square rule layout needs more attention, drawings, and experience with them mixed in.
Rusty

Raphael

I think there is an opening for a small series of books detailing layout and cutting order.
One on Mill & Square rule that would cover the cutting of commonly used joints.
Another on snap-line mapped layout, advanced joinery and maybe few simple scribe techniques for lined timbers.
Then a third (and fourth?) on advanced scribe techniques including developing floor drawings, doing fully round work etc.

A tool book focused on timber framing tools, their care and feeding ;) is another good one.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Jim_Rogers

Thanks to all who have posted so far.

You have given me some great ideas and direction.

Keep them coming....

PS. my wife thinks it a good idea too......
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

PaAnkerbalken

I would like to see some discussion on enclosing timberframes.  Most books mention very little about it.  I'd like to see different techniques and options with some examples with some photos. 
logosol M7

Jim_Rogers

I agree that there is a need for more about enclosure systems, but I believe I should concentrate on more of what I have had direct experience with.

As of right now, I don't have a lot of experience with different enclosure systems, but that could change by the time the book was finished.

Right now I'm leaning a lot towards "Timber Framing for Beginners" with basic methods and procedures for creating joints.

Some ideas for chapters are:

Table of contents.

i.   History?

1.   Needed tools.
2.   How to sharpen.
3.   Boring machines.
4.   Mallets and commanders.
5.   Saw horses
6.   Shaving horses.
7.   Square rule layout-standard
8.   Square rule layout-snap line
9.   Mill rule layout
10.   Cutting a tenon
11.   Chopping a mortise
12.   Laying out a brace.
13.   Fitting up a braced corner-checking for square
14.   Model building as a method to plan your frame.

These could be some ideas.

As I see it, when Jack Sobon wrote his first book he used a shed as an example, to show you how to construct a timber framed shed.

When he wrote his second book, he used a house, to show you how to construct a timber framed house.

As these ideas have been used I feel my book should do either one of these, but to focus on basics, in depth. And let the reader use these basic methods to construct what ever he wants to, whether it is a shed, barn, or house. That being said my book probably won't contain any shed, barn, or house plans.

Thanks for all your comments so far.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

jander3

I want a book that walks me through building a frame, including plans and dimensions for a small frame.   Should walk someone though tools, how to use them, and detailed drawings and photos that would give me enough information to produce a small frame. 

I think the framing books I have are a little short on detail when it comes to producing a small frame.  A book a guy could use to teach himself enough to produce a useful frame would be valuable to me.



Jasperfield

I knew it was coming!

I also think snap-line square rule, and techniques re using somewhat bowed, twisted, and distorted timbers would be a big practical help.

The subject of heart placement both when sawing and when purchasing timbers would be quite helpful. A good discussion of FOHC timbers including the decision to use/not use and with arguments for each case. When and where to use previously checked timbers.

Create or copy & reference a limited and simple-to-use engineering section to include loads, spans, etc. and show sample calcs with a simple drawing. Allow the user to insert his coefficients.

General rule-of-thumb timber sizing, and trenail sizing & placement.

Scarf joints.

Discuss rafter types, ridge poles, etc. and advantages/disadvantages of each type.

Timber handling and moving methods (in the shop and onsite) for one person would be helpful.

Something else very helpful...You determine a simple, but capable, gin pole that could be simply built and erected using commonly found equipment/methods and publish it.

I would go easy on mill-rule (as it is discussed all too often and in many references) and lean more towards square-rule and simple scribing.

A history chapter, if included, should be very brief as it is often way too long and is commonly available elsewhere.

Even though it would eventually become obsolete, I would include a vendors list for TF tools and so forth. i.e. Logrite, your company, the Forum, etc.

And finally: I believe that to compile and simplify this process, with permission, portions of this book could be copied or inserted from outside sources, authors, etc. in order to expedite publication and to allow you to focus on your areas of expertise. In fact, you may wish to select others to write specific portions.

I'm anxious!

zopi

Use of modern materials in conjunction with traditional timber framing methods....most books cover the traditional stuff, but they don't give much info about installing modern insulation and mechanical systems in a 'frame...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

rs1626

I will buy one just let me know when it is done

John S

Hi Jim,
How about a chapter on milling timbers (from logs) to be used in the timber frame.  I enjoy reading your instructions on various aspects of timber framing (you helped me with the boring machine I purchased from you in Hancock Shaker Village last September).  The book is eagerly awaited here.
John Snyder
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

routestep

A chapter on how a timbered dormer is layed out would be helpful to me. The Guild has had a couple articles on roof lay-out but I would get lost not knowing the angle being discribed or cut on a jack rafter. I asked Jack Sobon about Hawksdale angles once and he said he doesn't use them. Not traditional I guess.

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Jasperfield on June 03, 2010, 10:22:15 PM

The subject of heart placement both when sawing and when purchasing timbers would be quite helpful. A good discussion of FOHC timbers including the decision to use/not use and with arguments for each case. When and where to use previously checked timbers.


Recently covered in the last issue of "Timber Framing" put out by the guild.

Quote
General rule-of-thumb timber sizing, and trenail sizing & placement.

Will be covered.

Quote

Scarf joints.

Discuss rafter types, ridge poles, etc. and advantages/disadvantages of each type.


these maybe too deep for a beginner's book.


Quote
Timber handling and moving methods (in the shop and on site) for one person would be helpful.

Included

Quote
Something else very helpful...You determine a simple, but capable, gin pole that could be simply built and erected using commonly found equipment/methods and publish it.

Could be included in section on raising, if a raising section is included.

Quote
A history chapter, if included, should be very brief as it is often way too long and is commonly available elsewhere.

Agreed

Quote
Even though it would eventually become obsolete, I would include a vendors list for TF tools and so forth. i.e. Logrite, your company, the Forum, etc.

Possible.

Quote
And finally: I believe that to compile and simplify this process, with permission, portions of this book could be copied or inserted from outside sources, authors, etc. in order to expedite publication and to allow you to focus on your areas of expertise. In fact, you may wish to select others to write specific portions.

Not sure about this idea, maybe not possible due to all legal matters.

Some good points, thanks.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: routestep on June 04, 2010, 02:05:39 PM
A chapter on how a timbered dormer is laid out would be helpful to me. The Guild has had a couple articles on roof lay-out but I would get lost not knowing the angle being described or cut on a jack rafter.

This could be too advanced for a beginner's book.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

jamesamd

I think You should include DVD with chapters,IE. laying out a brace and cutting the tenons.
with some professional video and editing.This alone would be a huge help to the Masses,that think timberframe joinery is over thier heads.

I would also include video that shows how to use regular power tools to cut tenons and hog out most of a mortise.

the chapters of course,would include every joint You describe in the book.

jim
All that is gold does not glitter,not all those that wander are lost.....

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Brad_bb on June 02, 2010, 04:12:38 PMWhere would you sell it besides summer beam books, the guild store and maybe Amazon?

Forestry Forum........ ;D

and of course the publisher web page...
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jasperfield

Beginning is the worst part of any project. Like washing dishes, once your hands are wet it goes pretty well.

Looks like you've commenced.

Brad_bb

...and have certain guild members and FF guys(guest stars) demonstrate the various methods... ;D ;D

Quote from: jamesamd on June 05, 2010, 04:21:01 PM
I think You should include DVD with chapters,IE. laying out a brace and cutting the tenons.
with some professional video and editing.This alone would be a huge help to the Masses,that think timberframe joinery is over thier heads.

I would also include video that shows how to use regular power tools to cut tenons and hog out most of a mortise.

the chapters of course,would include every joint You describe in the book.

jim
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

ballen

Yes, step by step, like some of your web posts.  Another topic would be how to cut relish.  I can't figure out how to get side lines drawn so my relish is cut square. 

icolquhoun

I agree 100% on a dvd.  Especially since your savy with the youtube experience of great informational videos you have already produced.
If a picture is worth a 1000 words, a video produced in a thick mass accent must be worth somewhere north of a million :D

It is my personal opinion that your posts here over the years (I have gone back and read a number of them since joining a few months back) are extremely well written and thought out, and needless to say, extremely informative.  If they could be applied to a book in content they would be a great asset/supplement to some other great books already out there that us beginning framers take as the bible (chiefy sobon's red and new book)  I feel that with Sobon's two books alone, although I have read many others, I am competent enough to tackle a frame easily, but areas I think you excel in could be introduced (or elaborated upon) in your book/dvd. (see I'm pushing the dvd thing). It's been mentioned above, but tool selection, care, and maintenance, as well as timber selection/milling using a portable mill would be very helpful to us owner/miller/builders.  ex: how to deal with twist, cutting to relieve stress, boxing hearts, etc. 
I also second a section on how to move timbers and raise using simple methods.  Gin pole demonstration would be great, as well as see-sawing the timbers on midpoints/etc.

Good luck on the book, I know once printed I'll be reading and wearing the pages thin on it like I do with all my other "good" books on the subject.

bigshow

as some have already said:

detailed square rule.
I never try anything, I just do it.

ljmathias

Jim: I've published books myself (as has my wife) and couple of things to keep in mind-

First, why are you doing it?  Know from the beginning that it's not like a best-seller so you won't make any money on it (and I mean NONE: the publisher might, but they get their cut off the top, you get yours after all expenses of publishing are paid off, which is actually never).

So if it's not for the money, it must be for the personal satisfaction.  Now decide how much that's worth to you- by that I mean, you'll spend days and weeks of time to do it, not make any money on it, so what level of pay-back in terms of reputation and personal satisfaction makes it worthwhile?  Oh, and self-publishing means you spend a lot having someone else do the work without spending any of their money on the gamble that it will sell...

Second, things take time, and things always take more time than than you think- couple of quotes from friends.  And here's my favorite: the first 90% of the job takes 90% of the effort; the last 10% of the job takes the other 90% of the effort... starting is actually a whole lot easier than finishing (I've got tons of 90% done projects to prove it, at least for me).

And third (I did say a couple things, right?), what is the need?  Sure, there are a handful of us who would buy at least one couple- how many is that?  Couple thousand if you're lucky, couple hundred if you're not... numbers don't justify a book based just on market need or guess what, someone else would have done it by now...

I'm NOT trying to discourage you; in fact, I'd be happy to work with you on the project, if you're interested; I've edited a handful of books as well.  You've got a great start with the material on the forum and your skill with computer generated drawings.  You just have to be clear in your own head on why you're doing it, what the costs in time and money (yeah, you'll spend your own money on it) and what the returns might be.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Lj
LT40, Long tractor with FEL and backhoe, lots of TF tools, beautiful wife of 50 years plus 4 kids, 5 grandsons AND TWO GRANDDAUGHTERS all healthy plus too many ideas and plans and not enough time and energy

Jim_Rogers

Lj:
I do hear what you're saying, and I have heard or did understand most of this before.

Still brain storming this idea, and may see where that leads me.

I do understand that time is money, and it takes time to do these things.

Thanks for your offer and advice.

Jim
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Piston

Jim,
As other's have said I think you could make a book out of your 'tutorial' posts alone!  I have printed up the sticky's you wrote and have them in my bookshelf right alongside the Sobon books, Benson books, and Chappel book, I refer to it just as much as the others. 

You have a unique way of teaching that makes a complicated and far reaching subject (at least to the beginner) look very attainable to the average person.  Whether you make a book or not I will still rely on past writings that you have made throughout my life and reference those as long as I am into this hobby. 

Some people may know every single aspect of timber framing and structural engineering but may be horrible teachers, or just not want to teach.  You are a professional who knows an extremely lot about the craft and are obviously very good at it, as well you have a desire and passion to pass on your knowledge.  People like me owe a lot to people like you because you put things in terms that we can understand and follow, making something seem not that difficult.  Some of your posts can literally walk a beginner through the steps to cut a joint, they did for me.   Obviously there is a lot more to it than I understand at this point, but that is the goal of your book, for the beginner....

I also think some plans at the end of the book for small projects would be really helpful.  Chappel and Sobon do this in they're books but they are still fairly major tasks.  I think some things like mailbox posts, sawhorses, and maybe a picnic table or something similar would be very helpful to the beginner.  It would be a project someone like me could do and finish in a reasonable amount of time and realize the feeling of success sooner, which is addictive in itself.

If it helps at all, I'm gonna need to pre-order two copies for myself, one for the house, and one for the ship!   ;D

I say go for it..... 8)
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

laffs

I may have missed some old threads.
how about guide lines on how much of a shoulder to leave for a tenon. how deep to cut the housed part of the mortise. and this would be more structural, but rafter size for purlin. i know when in doubt overkill but, what would be under-kill. maybe some sort of chart. like width x inch of rise minimum dimension of rafter.
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

Rooster

Quote from: Piston on June 21, 2010, 03:50:44 PM
If it helps at all, I'm gonna need to pre-order two copies for myself, one for the house, and one for the ship!   ;D

Piston,
Ship???  So either you are a merchant marine, in the navy, or an astronaut....Heck, it's better than being called a space cadet.   :D

Sorry Piston, failed attempt at humor.   :-\

Rooster
"We talk about creating millions of "shovel ready" jobs, for a society that doesn't really encourage anybody to pick up a shovel." 
Mike Rowe

"Old barns are a reminder of when I was young,
       and new barns are a reminder that I am not so young."
                          Rooster

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Craig Roost on June 22, 2010, 08:11:54 AM
Quote from: Piston on June 21, 2010, 03:50:44 PM
If it helps at all, I'm gonna need to pre-order two copies for myself, one for the house, and one for the ship!   ;D

Piston,
Ship???  So either you are a merchant marine, in the navy, or an astronaut....Heck, it's better than being called a space cadet.   :D

Craig:
Piston works on a ship, and is there for several weeks at a time. While off duty he does have access to the Internet and can post to threads.
When he is home he doesn't live that far from me, and can work on projects like timber framing.

He came to a job site where I was working cutting a frame to view the overall process and see what it was all about. And he helped me for a day to learn and see.

I have traveled to his home and helped him and a friend learn how to mill timbers with their new sawmill for a day. Which was fun.

Learning an meeting new people is fun and rewarding.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: laffs on June 22, 2010, 07:04:56 AM
I may have missed some old threads.

They are still there you just need to go find them and read them.

Quote
how about guide lines on how much of a shoulder to leave for a tenon? how deep to cut the housed part of the mortise?

These are established by the frame designer when the "general frame rules" are written. But are usually a standard dimension. Each joint should apply to the "general frame rules" and every rule has exceptions. When a beam meets a post it maybe necessary to increase the housing depth to make a shelf for the beam to sit on and increase it's load transferring capacity.

Quote
and this would be more structural, but rafter size for purlin. i know when in doubt overkill but, what would be under-kill? maybe some sort of chart. like width x inch of rise minimum dimension of rafter.

As almost every frame is designed to be site specific there is no way to come up with a chart that says what sizes would work, or I'd have found one by now.
Every roof structure has to be designed to carry the load of the roof materials, wind load and any snow load, again these are all building site specific and can vary from low to high.

I'm sorry I can't help you with any "rules of thumb" other than this.

Jim Rogers


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

laffs

thanks for the responce
let ma know when the book is done.
brent
timber harvester,tinberjack230,34hp kubota,job ace excavator carpenter tools up the yingyang,

Piston

Rooster,
Your right, Space Cadet....... :D
Actually Merchant Marine...and I'm lucky enough to have internet access out here and quite a bit of down time....So when you notice me posting quite a bit, there is a good chance I'm.....ah hem...working  :D

I think I'd rather be an Astronaut though, although then again I'd be out of a job  ???

I don't post nearly as much as I should when I'm home, gotta soak up all that vaca that I can outside.  I've been meaning to post a report on a fence I just built so maybe I can get to that in the next day or two...
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Raphael

My rule of thumb for sizing roof rafters is steal borrow a design from someone who's paid an engineer and has a higher snow load than I do.   ;)  :D
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

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