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Blow-down challenge

Started by 78NHTFY, April 22, 2018, 02:16:03 PM

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78NHTFY

Got hit with some 75 mph winds early in the week and some of my white pine (5 sticks) didn't make it.  Mother nature has an amazing way of selecting out the weak.  You can see the woodpecker holes in the broken off stem in this first pic. No problem bucking this one 
 
up and skidding to the mill.  But the hanger in the next pic will be a challenge: two WP that need to be cut while standing on what used to be terra firma.   
 
For reference, that's an 18" blade on my pruning saw.  Would welcome any thoughts from those who are way more skilled than I.  My plan: cut the small one with a chain saw leaving enough meat to finish off the cut with an extension pruner.  Then cut the big boy and have a good escape route.  I did a single one like it last year: the splash of water when the root ball went back into the water-filled hole was wild.  Thanks and all the best, Rob.

If you have time, you win....

Skeans1

Option A. Pull the butt and root ball out then buck off the roots with something having pressure against the root ball to make sure it doesn't come at you.
Option B. Select another tree to fall across the tops to get them on the ground.

Southside

I agree with Skeans1 there, I would try to get a cable around the very bottom of the root ball and snap through any remaining roots then see if I could hoist the entire thing free so the sticks fall to the ground. My first thought was to drop something else on the pair of trees to get them down, even then you will have issues with the root ball pressure trying to pull itself back up, but at least the tree is horizontal.  

Your idea of using the extended pruner has the potential to cause that tree to barberchair as you won't be able to cut through to the hinge fast enough.  Also, the stick may very well just slide off the stump and end up pushing against the root ball so you gained nothing.  

With that much lean a bore cut is the only way to go, but there is no way I would stand on that rootball and try to cut either tree the way it is.  If the stick rolls or you slip there won't be time to get out of the way.

For sure a job for a piece of well guarded equipment.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Skeans1

Another good tip is this is a place where you need a long bar, sharp chain personally I won't think of a round chain, and a good sized power head. Blow down is a killer and should be given respect, a plan, and a falling partner.

OntarioAl

1/If you look closely at the picture one can readily see why the trees did not continue to the ground as they are hung up in a multi topped hardwood I suspect maple .That being said when the two trees in question when they are released from the stump they will probably remain hung up.
2/ What type of skidding equipment do you have access to (the bigger the better)
3/ The heavy leaner technique is called for here and if you do not have extensive experience with this you are out of your league as this is not a situation to begin your learning curve. 
4/ You are correct the root ball will roll back into the ground and this along with  clearing escape routes is all part of the careful and meticulous planning required to safely hand fall these two trees
5/Falling additional trees in an attempt to dislodge would in my opinion (over 45 years of cutting and training experience) in this case make matters worse.
6/Best option find somebody with a 648 John Deere sized grapple skidder or larger and rip it out by the roots. alternative medium sized excavator to dig out root ball and pull trees down
Stay Safe
Cheers
Al
 
Al Raman

mike_belben

X2 on what equipment do you have and x3 on not throwing more wood on top.  



Is the tree thats holding it all up going to stay or go?  Thats probably biggest influence and we cant really see that so good.  I have walked up the gangplank, set the rope up high, notched the standing tree and pulled them both over together like a ladder falling.  

I have chained down low and cut in 2 opposing hinges about 4ft apart then winched so that the butt end swung away to the side and tore off, dropping a chunk of firewood on the ground at about a 45* angle to the current direction like a letter Z almost.


What is not known and needs to be discovered to make the best decision, is which sides are in tension and which are in compression. Meaning does that stump want to stand up or lay down if severed right now.  I personally see a bit of a saddle to the length of it, not an arch.  I think the tree wants a shallow vee cut in from the top and an undercut kerf sliced in from the bottom.  If im right the roots will curl out and butt cut will lay onto the ground.  

I would chain the butt then cut a slight vee in from top to make bar clearance.  Then very slowly probe straight downward until i saw the rootball or kerf indicate its intentions.  I relieve tension slowly with lots of fishgills and pie cuts, like a beaver making an hourglass shape so there arent any narrow kerfs to get pinched in.  If there has to be a kerf, i install wedges BEFORE im pinched because its 10x faster than the alternative.  I also throw limbs under to keep clearance for the next choker.  

Once it is free from the stump and butt is on the ground i just keep pulling the next butt log out and the top either falls or gets steeper.  Do that til i can pull the rug out from under it with a cable. If its really tangled in the vertical tree i have gaffed up and pruned stuff back to release.

Praise The Lord

Peter Drouin

I would notch the big tree on the bottom near the ground, do the back cut thing. Let the stump role back with the small tree, That will slow it down.  
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Maine logger88

If you have a skidder you can do like I do and hook a cable around it cut a notch then cut a partial back cut not going too far through so it has any chance of falling then get back in the cab and rip the whole thing down might pull some fiber but it's the safest way I know. 
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

teakwood

Quote from: mike_belben on April 22, 2018, 06:58:25 PMX2 on what equipment do you have and x3 on not throwing more wood on top.


my opinion too. the safest way is with a skidder or excavator
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

mike_belben

Praise The Lord

78NHTFY

Hey guys, thanks: great comments, suggestions!!  Would love to do the skidder thing but like Belben says, "yeah those would be nice." :D :D, or like the Mainers say, "you can't get dey'ah from he'ah."  Checked everything out further this morning: they're hung up in the crown of a sugar maple (good eye OntarioAl!).  So dropping another tree on them is out: it would just jamb the tops in further.  The root ball is at least 10-12' high.  If I cut the larger WP, (V-cut on bottom, then back cut--just like Peter Drouin suggested) I have room to stand and get out of the way.  But that still leaves the 12" WP.  Leaving it uncut may slow the root ball from falling back or it might just hold it up.  It also crosses the larger WP (butt on one side of lg WP, top on other).  Also, the small WP top is not badly hung up and could release.  Lots of stresses & dynamics.  (Southside logger--I know it could roll).  Not to worry, am taking it slow, and will figure it out!  Am planning on attending the Shindig at Peter's in one piece 8) 8).  Will keep you posted.  All the best, Rob.  PS--have been looking at skidders for awhile but still haven't found anything yet right for me (and my wife :o).
If you have time, you win....

Riwaka

Photographs from all sides and a 'from above' 'drone' pic would be helpful.
A local woodlot here has a lot of wind damage like shown in the pictures above - I would not walk through it on a windy day now.

Might not be appropriate for this situation but there are always loud noise solutions.
Blasting trees in BC with Dave Weymer.
Danger Tree Blasting - Below Road Right of Way - YouTube

Safe-T cut for power line clearance of problem vegetation.
Safe-T-Cut® Explosive Clamp - YouTube



John Mc

Quote from: Peter Drouin on April 22, 2018, 08:37:47 PM
I would notch the big tree on the bottom near the ground, do the back cut thing. Let the stump role back with the small tree, That will slow it down.  
That's generally how I handle them. It's almost like you are felling the stump back up.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

mike_belben

Use lots of wedges or youll be cutting the saw out. 
Praise The Lord

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